United States Trump 2nd Term - Planning and Beyond

[King Arts]

The british promised the jewish people a home land after WW1, they promised the Arabs a homeland after WW1. The arabs got their home land (Saudi arabia other countries) And then proceded to break their promise to the jews during a mass genocide of their people...

And then even after that genocide the british STILL didn't want to keep their promise. Also the Palastinians allied with Hitler in fact the leader of the Arab Palastinians was pretty buddy buddy with him. In light of the fact that the British were still jerking the jews around after the fucking holocaust and the Palastinians had been allied with hitler?

This is not a fair argument. The British sacrificed a lot for the Jews in ww2. So them expecting gratitude would not be unreasonable. The British saved countless Jews from being killed, by the Nazis. Also by fighting against Hitler and defeating him all of the Jews who were in camps are alive because of that. The choice the British made ensured the fall of their empire. While the British empire was in decline after ww1 they might have been able to hold onto a lot more. If the British did decide to not fight Hitler the world as a whole would be worse almost all European Jews would be dead Eastern Europe would be a burnt down ruin also.

However Hitler making a 1000 year reich is a stupid delusion, our world is not a comic book he would not be able to conquer the world. He would sooner or later fight the Soviets. Lend lease would probably still happen but even without it Germany would not win. If Britain does not get involved the US would not send troops to perform a landing. But while the war would be slower both Russia and Germany would wipe themselves out. The war won’t end in 45 it would go on for a few years. Both nations are hollow shells I would not be surprised if by the 50s they completely collapsed after losing multiple generations and millions upon millions of dead Germans and Russians. Central and Eastern Europe would look more like our Africa at this point. But Britain would not be threatened. They would not have lost resources fighting a world war. This world as a whole would be worse for everyone, but not for the British empire. They would maintain their overseas empire and would be the dominant power in Europe. If you only care about Britain it’s something to consider.

So when proto Israeli terrorists did attack the British who gave a lot up for their people it kinda seems like an ungrateful spit in the face.

Yeah there was going to be some bad shit coming down the pipe, because after you go through something like that your going to be fully out of fucks, and even then after all of this the Isralies were positively restrained compared to the Arabs you know who evicted all of their jews to the middle east.

Honestly Israels problem is that they have been too kind and merciful. They should have just done a total expulsion and call it population exchanges. Yes people would have been pissy at the time but it would be over. Honestly they should just rip off the bandaid and do the expulsion now.

This is a fair argument. You can say it’s wrong but then you’d also have to say the expulsion of the Jews from other Arab nations was also wrong to not have a double standard.
Or you could say it’s justified but then you’d have to say the Arabs expelling the Jews from the other countries is justified to avoid a double standard.

The Palastinians are arabs they are surrounded by arab homelands they should live with their own people under their own laws.

This isn’t a fair argument. It’s like saying the British French and Germans are the same because they are white.

If Palestinians see themselves as a separate ethnicity and other Arabs see them as a separate ethnicity then they are.

 

[Buba]

you all have repeatedly made statements calling for the destruction of Israel

I don't think I did. But irrelevant - I'm out.

 

[Marduk]

If Palestinians see themselves as a separate ethnicity and other Arabs see them as a separate ethnicity then they are.

Here's the zinger, not really. They only tactically started saying that once their Arab homelands got done with fighting conventional wars for them. Since when are Arabs of any country famous for their *checks notes* nationalism?
How can you so naively believe this small group of them oh so conveniently and suddenly became different?
Until then...
I think i have a set of quotes handy and thrown them around, even at your forgetful ass:

Hamas Launches Offensive Against Southern Israel

Yes, there were even PLO officials and Arab allies explaining the political logic behind such declarations.
The very fact that the whole Arab world and the countries mentioned in particular didn't get extremely outraged at such and similar statements of "Arab unity" shows how fake, tactical or at least shallow any of their supposed nationalism is, so don't project your own on them.
If anyone in Poland says something like this about "Slavic unity" they get classified as political fringe and are likely to get "not today, fucking vatniks" equivalent. And Putin wrote On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians - Wikipedia right before invading Ukraine. Yet somehow Jordanian, Syrian and Palestinian leaders can talk about how there's no difference between their people and Palestinians, or Lebanese for that matter, and none of the mentioned sides goes "wait a fucking minute, we're a separate people and want to keep an independent state, y'all other Arabs need to fuck off from it". Not exactly how this shit works in the world of nationalisms. Guess in their case most of their people either agree with the sentiment or don't care much either way, neither option being reflective of much nationalism.

HOWEVER Only the delusional or the liars will say that Israel is the "world's most moral army" or that they have stricter or kinder ROE than America or other western nations.

Yes they objectively do. Have you even read either ROE before saying that? For example did USAF do "roof knocking" like Israel i one does despite the tactical disadvantage it gives?

Yes, I am neutral between them. Israel is not a pure innocent angel no matter how much neocons, and evangelicals simp for it.

The fact you are ignoring is that one side is islamist while you're a non-Muslim. In light of that any declaration of neutrality puts you in the same spot as someone loudly proclaiming neutrality in front of an incoming Mongolian horde. Do you think they care about your neutrality, respect neutrality, and will be neutral to you because of it? Think about what that declaration of neutrality makes you.

 

[SoliFortissimi]

Think about what that declaration of neutrality makes yo

I think modern people have just developed a sense of invulnerability. We feel that there's no way any armed conflict could possibly hurt us, or at least not in such a way that we can't handle it.

 

[Zachowon]

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Because their national narcissism won't allow them to see themselves as the weaker party at the table. They must be catered to or they walk, and Trump's admin will not do that.

 

[Zachowon]

Gulf diplomatic sources debate if Trump will announce US recognition of Palestinian state

Saudi Arabia will host a Gulf-US summit in mid-May during Trump’s Mideast visit. Speculation swirls over a major announcement on a Palestinian state, and peaceful US-Saudi nuclear cooperation

www.jpost.com

 

[Doomsought]

Because their national narcissism won't allow them to see themselves as the weaker party at the table. They must be catered to or they walk, and Trump's admin will not do that.

China has major issues with what they call the century of humiliation, and want to take revenge on the west over it. Fentanyl and other narcotics coming out of China is revenge for the opium wars.

 

[Rorschach]

The fact you are ignoring is that one side is islamist while you're a non-Muslim. In light of that any declaration of neutrality puts you in the same spot as someone loudly proclaiming neutrality in front of an incoming Mongolian horde. Do you think they care about your neutrality, respect neutrality, and will be neutral to you because of it? Think about what that declaration of neutrality makes you.

A christian? It's not that difficult to parse, Israel should not be under Muslim or Jewish control, but rather Christian control.

 

[Zachowon]

A christian? It's not that difficult to parse, Israel should not be under Muslim or Jewish control, but rather Christian control.

How so? The Jews have had that as thier Homeland before christ was born

 

[King Arts]

How so? The Jews have had that as thier Homeland before christ was born

Actually no there is a difference between rabbinical Judaism, and the Ancient Israelites faith.

 

[Rorschach]

How so? The Jews have had that as thier Homeland before christ was born

And the Muslims conquered it, and so did the Christians, we all have claim here and it's a place of religious significance to all of us. The reason I want it in Christian hands is because I'm not a Muslim or a Jew, it really is as simple as that.

 

[Marduk]

A christian? It's not that difficult to parse, Israel should not be under Muslim or Jewish control, but rather Christian control.

Which means what exactly?
Israel is a westernized country and a close ally of a nominally Christian country that also happens to be a superpower, and allows Christians to pilgrimage there as freely as safely as anyone might considering the neighborhood, that's about as close as it gets compared to the alternatives.
There's no state Christian country both willing and able to actually take and hold the place, so that's not a realistic option even if for some reason someone was enough of a nut to prefer it.
If such a theoretical independent Christian state in the region would arise by some mysterious means, by all chance it would be having the same, if not worse problems of legal, geopolitical and humanitarian nature, except now Christian societies would not have a degree of separation and plausible deniability it carries between themselves and the hard decisions needed to deal with those problems.
Long story short, in pure realpolitik terms, what's so hard in understanding the benefits of proxies?
And that's in addition to sidestepping the long buried political landmine of which denomination of Christians should control it.

 

[King Arts]

Here's the zinger, not really. They only tactically started saying that once their Arab homelands got done with fighting conventional wars for them. Since when are Arabs of any country famous for their *checks notes* nationalism?
How can you so naively believe this small group of them oh so conveniently and suddenly became different?
Until then...
I think i have a set of quotes handy and thrown them around, even at your forgetful ass:
Hamas Launches Offensive Against Southern Israel Yes, there were even PLO officials and Arab allies explaining the political logic behind such declarations.
The very fact that the whole Arab world and the countries mentioned in particular didn't get extremely outraged at such and similar statements of "Arab unity" shows how fake, tactical or at least shallow any of their supposed nationalism is, so don't project your own on them.
If anyone in Poland says something like this about "Slavic unity" they get classified as political fringe and are likely to get "not today, fucking vatniks" equivalent. And Putin wrote On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians - Wikipedia right before invading Ukraine. Yet somehow Jordanian, Syrian and Palestinian leaders can talk about how there's no difference between their people and Palestinians, or Lebanese for that matter, and none of the mentioned sides goes "wait a fucking minute, we're a separate people and want to keep an independent state, y'all other Arabs need to fuck off from it". Not exactly how this shit works in the world of nationalisms. Guess in their case most of their people either agree with the sentiment or don't care much either way, neither option being reflective of much nationalism.

See the reason this is false is because we can see that the Egyptians, Syrians, Jordainians, etc. DON'T treat Palestinians as their own, maybe they want to use Palestine as a catspaw and then take it over later. But that does not mean they are the same people.

There is not one Arab super nation. Egyptians, Syrians, Jordanians are separate people. Maybe Palestine did not come into full being until the 70's like I said in that thread. But it's here now, and the people who are called Palestinians did have their ancestors living on that land for hundreds of years, maybe even thousands.

Yes they objectively do. Have you even read either ROE before saying that? For example did USAF do "roof knocking" like Israel i one does despite the tactical disadvantage it gives?

Yeah the Army that allows and justifies gay male rape on prisoners is more moral than us evil Americans, Brits, Poles, French, etc. Our finance minister, and national security minister may not be protesting to free rapist soldiers but we are more evil than Israel.

The fact you are ignoring is that one side is islamist while you're a non-Muslim. In light of that any declaration of neutrality puts you in the same spot as someone loudly proclaiming neutrality in front of an incoming Mongolian horde. Do you think they care about your neutrality, respect neutrality, and will be neutral to you because of it? Think about what that declaration of neutrality makes you.

Here is the thing Palestinians are not a threat to the western nations. If Israel does collapse Palestinians won't take over the entire Islamic world and make a new caliphate to try and conquer us. Muh Mongol hordes lol. If Israel falls one of two things will happen best case the new Palestinian state will be the equivalent of another Arab nation like Egypt or Jordan. Worse case it collapses like Syria and there is conflict.

Which means what exactly?
Israel is a westernized country and a close ally of a nominally Christian country that also happens to be a superpower, and allows Christians to pilgrimage there as freely as safely as anyone might considering the neighborhood, that's about as close as it gets compared to the alternatives.
There's no state Christian country both willing and able to actually take and hold the place, so that's not a realistic option even if for some reason someone was enough of a nut to prefer it.
If such a theoretical independent Christian state in the region would arise by some mysterious means, by all chance it would be having the same, if not worse problems of legal, geopolitical and humanitarian nature, except now Christian societies would not have a degree of separation and plausible deniability it carries between themselves and the hard decisions needed to deal with those problems.
Long story short, in pure realpolitik terms, what's so hard in understanding the benefits of proxies?

Oh my God yeah listen I'm ok with not attacking Israel. I'm ok with recognizing them as a real country, I'm ok with acknowledging Jerusalem is their capital. I'm pro trade with them, I'm ok with working together to deal with terrorists that are against both of our interests.

If the Jews kicked out all Christians and banned Christians from entering I'd support Israel's destruction in THAT specific case. Unlike other cucks here who would still support them.

They have not done that in real life so I don't support Israel's destruction though. I am just neutral because THEY ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN STATE. I don't want to give them free shit, I want to ask them to be slightly nicer towards Palestinians(not in a Greta Thurnberg or liberal way, but in a Piers Morgan way. You gonna say Piers is a liberal SJW) and don't simp for them. Because of this me not sucking Israel's dick idiots who think like George W. Bush "Your either with us or against us Durrr." think I'm pro Hamas. What a fucking joke.

 

[WanderingCrusaderMan]

Hey ya'll, but I'm pretty sure this is getting out of hand and has partially derailed the thread. I recommend making a new thread before one of the mods gets annoyed(besides Sunhawk, because from my view, he also kind of threw more fuel to the fire that the three started).

 

[Marduk]

See the reason this is false is because we can see that the Egyptians, Syrians, Jordainians, etc. DON'T treat Palestinians as their own, maybe they want to use Palestine as a catspaw and then take it over later. But that does not mean they are the same people.

So? Egyptians, Syrians, Jordanians etc. don't even treat certain other groups of Egyptians, Syrians, Jordanians etc. as their own. As i've argued, they are not countries based on nationalist convictions of their inhabitants, they are not nation-states.

There is not one Arab super nation. Egyptians, Syrians, Jordanians are separate people.

No, they are not even united peoples. They are at best semi functional tribal coalitions in constant competition for power internally.

Maybe Palestine did not come into full being until the 70's like I said in that thread. But it's here now, and the people who are called Palestinians did have their ancestors living on that land for hundreds of years, maybe even thousands.

They are the same as above. FFS this "nation" can't even agree on what government they have.

Yeah the Army that allows and justifies gay male rape on prisoners is more moral

Fuck off with those myths and retarded news spinning, no the army doesn't do that. I've argued with you about that one and you fucked off.

than us evil Americans, Brits, Poles, French, etc. Our finance minister, and national security minister may not be protesting to free rapist soldiers but we are more evil than Israel.

LMAO.

Here is the thing Palestinians are not a threat to the western nations.

Stick your propaganda you know where. Palestinian terrorists have killed plenty enough of citizens of western countries to fully express in writing what a retarded statement it is in blood. And Hamas did the same too by themselves on top of that.

If Israel does collapse Palestinians won't take over the entire Islamic world and make a new caliphate to try and conquer us.

Who gives a fuck what label the islamist organizations who will try to do so put on themselves. If they do get control of this area though, they surely will recruit from the Palestinian territories heavily.

Muh Mongol hordes lol. If Israel falls one of two things will happen best case the new Palestinian state will be the equivalent of another Arab nation like Egypt or Jordan. Worse case it collapses like Syria and there is conflict.

So either way it will likely suck for any sort of western interests. At best it will not suck much. But considering that the Muslim Brotherhood is the most politically influential Muslim faction there (Hamas) it would probably be closer to the worst case scenario.

Oh my God yeah listen I'm ok with not attacking Israel. I'm ok with recognizing them as a real country, I'm ok with acknowledging Jerusalem is their capital. I'm pro trade with them, I'm ok with working together to deal with terrorists that are against both of our interests.

If the Jews kicked out all Christians and banned Christians from entering I'd support Israel's destruction in THAT specific case. Unlike other cucks here who would still support them.

They have not done that in real life so I don't support Israel's destruction though. I am just neutral because THEY ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN STATE.

But they are the closest thing to one (ally of a Christian majority superpower) that there can realistically be in foreseeable future.
Otherwise feel free to start a crusade with the rest of your delusional fellow travelers and see how far you get, bah, see how much support from major Christian churches and institutions you get - i'd say and then come back to me, but we both know that if you did that you'd all end up dead or in prison, and very quickly at that.

I don't want to give them free shit, I want to ask them to be slightly nicer towards Palestinians(not in a Greta Thurnberg or liberal way, but in a Piers Morgan way. You gonna say Piers is a liberal SJW) and don't simp for them. Because of this me not sucking Israel's dick idiots who think like George W. Bush "Your either with us or against us Durrr." think I'm pro Hamas. What a fucking joke.

If you are neutral why do you care whether they are nice to Palestinians? Are you some kind of bleeding heart shitlib or third worldist leftist? Most of Palestinians are fucking islamists. I want everyone, Hindus, Christians, Atheists etc to fight all islamists as much as islamists want to fight all of the above.
Somehow you and people like you don't spend more time complaining about Muslims not being nice enough to Christians in places like Sudan, Pakistan, Egypt etc, and i assure you they aren't nice to them at all. You can declare neutrality towards islamists as loudly as you want, but that will not make them neutral to you. It will at best make them consider you a particularly dumb and delusional infidel to deal with later.
As far as they are concerned there is no such thing as neutrality towards infidels, only temporary peace for own tactical benefit (Hudna).

 

[Zachowon]

Actually no there is a difference between rabbinical Judaism, and the Ancient Israelites faith.

To a degree. The same can be said for Christians.

And the Muslims conquered it, and so did the Christians, we all have claim here and it's a place of religious significance to all of us. The reason I want it in Christian hands is because I'm not a Muslim or a Jew, it really is as simple as that.

So did the Assyrians, the babylonians, Romans....any one them can also claim it too.

 

[RenegadeInterrupt]

 

[WanderingCrusaderMan]

Gestapo? They think the police are Trump's Gestapo? The Dems are losing their minds. Especially since their begging for the release of some career politician who will use them as meatshields at a moment's notice if it means avoiding spending .2 minutes in a cell.

 

[Rorschach]

To a degree. The same can be said for Christians.

So did the Assyrians, the babylonians, Romans....any one them can also claim it too.

I'm not an Assyrian or a Roman or a Babylonian, so what if they have a fucking claim? I'm a Christian, which means that of course I'm going to support the Christian claim.

It's seriously fucking simple, I belong to different team and since I'm not a traitor I want my team to win.

It's the same as when America gets into a conflict, I might disagree with the conflict itself or at times even sympathize with the plight or grievances of the opposite side, but in the end I'm still going to be rooting for my team.