The War in Afghanistan

WolfBear

Well-known member
But the liberals want them to culturally enrich western nations.

I'm a non-Woke liberal and I don't want *that* kind of diversity! Rather, I want more of the diversity that Canada has! In other words, *smart* diversity!

I'd prefer to be enriched by an Afghan intellectual like Ashraf Ghani (even if he was sort-of useless as Afghan President) than by an Afghan rapist.
 

VictortheMonarch

Victor the Crusader
I'm a non-Woke liberal and I don't want *that* kind of diversity! Rather, I want more of the diversity that Canada has! In other words, *smart* diversity!

I'd prefer to be enriched by an Afghan intellectual like Ashraf Ghani (even if he was sort-of useless as Afghan President) than by an Afghan rapist.
I would rather not have a man that steals his nations money to go galivant off in Arabia. I would rather welcome people like the current leaders of the National Resistance Front of Afghanistan. Each are hardened men and women who fight for freedom for their people.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
I would rather not have a man that steals his nations money to go galivant off in Arabia. I would rather welcome people like the current leaders of the National Resistance Front of Afghanistan. Each are hardened men and women who fight for freedom for their people.

I don't know if the rumors about Ashraf Ghani stealing money from his country are actually true. That said, though, Yes, I do think that Ahmad Massoud is more courageous than Ashraf Ghani is.
 

Chiron

Well-known member
I would rather not have a man that steals his nations money to go galivant off in Arabia. I would rather welcome people like the current leaders of the National Resistance Front of Afghanistan. Each are hardened men and women who fight for freedom for their people.

NRF mostly existed on Twitter. As soon as Kabul was secured after the US left, the Taliban crushed them like bugs and they ran so fast, they forgot to take all their stolen cash with them or destroy their large depots.

There is no organized resistance to the Taliban except Twitter Trolls who exploit Think Tanks naivety and self-delusions for cash.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
NRF mostly existed on Twitter. As soon as Kabul was secured after the US left, the Taliban crushed them like bugs and they ran so fast, they forgot to take all their stolen cash with them or destroy their large depots.

There is no organized resistance to the Taliban except Twitter Trolls who exploit Think Tanks naivety and self-delusions for cash.

I'm surprised at just how rapidly the Afghan military folded. Less than two weeks. The Northern Alliance fought the Taliban for several years between 1996-2001, and it was in a much more disadvantageous position relative to the Afghan National Army. Maybe the US made the Afghan National Army too high-tech for its own good! Seriously.
 

Chiron

Well-known member
I'm surprised at just how rapidly the Afghan military folded. Less than two weeks. The Northern Alliance fought the Taliban for several years between 1996-2001, and it was in a much more disadvantageous position relative to the Afghan National Army. Maybe the US made the Afghan National Army too high-tech for its own good! Seriously.

The Afghan Army fought for 5 months before folding in the last 2 weeks. They had been fatally wounded in the year prior when the Taliban cut the ring road in multiple spots, essentially dividing the country into several non contiguous regions.

When the Taliban began its offensive in April, they focused on the highways and passes, causing the Afghan Army to fritter away its reserves to keep its supply lines open. It started a death spiral they could not get out of. However, not even the Taliban expected the cities to fall so quickly. They expected to need another spring campaign to secure the cities. They also did not think Ghani would flee like he did.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
The Afghan Army fought for 5 months before folding in the last 2 weeks. They had been fatally wounded in the year prior when the Taliban cut the ring road in multiple spots, essentially dividing the country into several non contiguous regions.

When the Taliban began its offensive in April, they focused on the highways and passes, causing the Afghan Army to fritter away its reserves to keep its supply lines open. It started a death spiral they could not get out of. However, not even the Taliban expected the cities to fall so quickly. They expected to need another spring campaign to secure the cities. They also did not think Ghani would flee like he did.

What do you think the Afghan government and military should have done differently?
 

Chiron

Well-known member
What do you think the Afghan government and military should have done differently?
Starting in 2002, not have been corrupt assholes and legitimized warlords preying on civilians and getting the US to do its dirty work.

The Afghan State was a lost cause from the beginning. We put lawless warlords in power, who then got us to bomb civilians who refuse to pay them protection money.

The bulk of civilians were killed by US forces on the lies of warlords and it turned the Afghan people against us.

We would have done better to have taken over all governance and flood a million soldiers in to secure it and build it back up from the ground up. But that was never going to happen.

The better response would have been to pay Mullah Omar off for OBL's location and assassinated him using a local Northern Alliance Team we transported for the job and called it good.

Going into Afghanistan simply sucked us into an ever expanding war that we have decisively lost and destroyed our country from the inside.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
Starting in 2002, not have been corrupt assholes and legitimized warlords preying on civilians and getting the US to do its dirty work.

The Afghan State was a lost cause from the beginning. We put lawless warlords in power, who then got us to bomb civilians who refuse to pay them protection money.

The bulk of civilians were killed by US forces on the lies of warlords and it turned the Afghan people against us.

We would have done better to have taken over all governance and flood a million soldiers in to secure it and build it back up from the ground up. But that was never going to happen.

The better response would have been to pay Mullah Omar off for OBL's location and assassinated him using a local Northern Alliance Team we transported for the job and called it good.

Going into Afghanistan simply sucked us into an ever expanding war that we have decisively lost and destroyed our country from the inside.

Would a restored Afghan monarchy have been better?
 

Chiron

Well-known member
Would a restored Afghan monarchy have been better?

Considering he was easily overthrown and popular support was more perception than actual facts on the ground, no. The real Afghanistan is the rural areas, what they think is what really matters. The city elites simply have better access to clueless naïve Westerners who don't have the bravery to go outside the cities on their own to get the real feel of the area. Thus Westerners have an incorrect view of Afghan Realities and were suckered out of their money.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Most soldiers hated being there because it was just a horrible place.
We were not having difficulties winning engagements it was the government using us as thier personal kill teams because they lie to us.
Of course we figured things out and made it a lot harder for them to just say kill them, we changed how we targeted and how we did things t adjust.
We are not learning the issues with not focusing on fighting a peer opponent for so long
 

History Learner

Well-known member

History Learner

Well-known member
Most soldiers hated being there because it was just a horrible place.
We were not having difficulties winning engagements it was the government using us as thier personal kill teams because they lie to us.
Of course we figured things out and made it a lot harder for them to just say kill them, we changed how we targeted and how we did things t adjust.
We are not learning the issues with not focusing on fighting a peer opponent for so long

Is that why in August we killed a bunch of civilians when it was supposed to be ISIS militants lol?
 

WolfBear

Well-known member

You might be interested in this article:


Is that why in August we killed a bunch of civilians when it was supposed to be ISIS militants lol?

That was done based on false intelligence, which is a tragedy, but different from a conscious murder of civilians.
 

Chiron

Well-known member
The Other Afghan Women

This summer, I travelled to rural Afghanistan to meet women who were already living under the Taliban, to listen to what they thought about this looming dilemma. More than seventy per cent of Afghans do not live in cities, and in the past decade the insurgent group had swallowed large swaths of the countryside. Unlike in relatively liberal Kabul, visiting women in these hinterlands is not easy: even without Taliban rule, women traditionally do not speak to unrelated men. Public and private worlds are sharply divided, and when a woman leaves her home she maintains a cocoon of seclusion through the burqa, which predates the Taliban by centuries. Girls essentially disappear into their homes at puberty, emerging only as grandmothers, if ever. It was through grandmothers—finding each by referral, and speaking to many without seeing their faces—that I was able to meet dozens of women, of all ages. Many were living in desert tents or hollowed-out storefronts, like Shakira; when the Taliban came across her family hiding at the market, the fighters advised them and others not to return home until someone could sweep for mines. I first encountered her in a safe house in Helmand. “I’ve never met a foreigner before,” she said shyly. “Well, a foreigner without a gun.”

Shakira has a knack for finding humor in pathos, and in the sheer absurdity of the men in her life: in the nineties, the Taliban had offered to supply electricity to the village, and the local graybeards had initially refused, fearing black magic. “Of course, we women knew electricity was fine,” she said, chuckling. When she laughs, she pulls her shawl over her face, leaving only her eyes exposed. I told her that she shared a name with a world-renowned pop star, and her eyes widened. “Is it true?” she asked a friend who’d accompanied her to the safe house. “Could it be?”

Dado went even further. In March, 2003, U.S. soldiers visited Sangin’s governor—Dado’s brother—to discuss refurbishing a school and a health clinic. Upon leaving, their convoy came under fire, and Staff Sergeant Jacob Frazier and Sergeant Orlando Morales became the first American combat fatalities in Helmand. U.S. personnel suspected that the culprit was not the Taliban but Dado—a suspicion confirmed to me by one of the warlord’s former commanders, who said that his boss had engineered the attack to keep the Americans reliant on him. Nonetheless, when Dado’s forces claimed to have nabbed the true assassin—an ex-Taliban conscript named Mullah Jalil—the Americans dispatched Jalil to Guantánamo. Unaccountably, this happened despite the fact that, according to Jalil’s classified Guantánamo file, U.S. officials knew that Jalil had been fingered merely to “cover for” the fact that Dado’s forces had been “involved with the ambush.”

The incident didn’t affect Dado’s relationship with U.S. Special Forces, who deemed him too valuable in serving up “terrorists.” They were now patrolling together, and soon after the attack the joint operation searched Shakira’s village for suspected terrorists. The soldiers did not stay at her home long, but she could not get the sight of the rifle muzzles out of her mind. The next morning, she removed the rugs and scrubbed the boot marks away.

This entire article is a long and sad tale of US Military incompetence and aiding and abetting war crimes when they weren't outright committing them themselves.

So Zachowon's protestations are quite empty indeed.
 

VictortheMonarch

Victor the Crusader
I don't know if the rumors about Ashraf Ghani stealing money from his country are actually true. That said, though, Yes, I do think that Ahmad Massoud is more courageous than Ashraf Ghani is.
After looking it over, he did indeed. He spent a lot of the money bribing UAE Officials though.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top