The War in Afghanistan

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
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More details; there were gunmen as well as suicide bombers it seems.
 

Rocinante

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If true, that we had warning from both teh UK and fucking Russia about this, and yet Biden still decided to trust the Taliban to handle security...wow.

There were plenty of articles out hours ahead of the bombs that the US was getting warnings of imminent attacks.

We knew about it and I believe they knew the warnings were credible.

They just didn't effectively stop it from happening.

Notice at the end Biden said they expected more to come, too.
 

Bacle

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There were plenty of articles out hours ahead of the bombs that the US was getting warnings of imminent attacks.

We knew about it and I believe they knew the warnings were credible.

They just didn't effectively stop it from happening.

Notice at the end Biden said they expected more to come, too.
To be fair, when I woke up today I think the first blast had just happened, or was just about to happen.

I had heard rumblings the last few days about ISIS trying something, but figured it would be more an attack on incoming convoys or maybe take a shot at a plane or the runway with a drone or something.
 

Rocinante

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To be fair, when I woke up today I think the first blast had just happened, or was just about to happen.

I had heard rumblings the last few days about ISIS trying something, but figured it would be more an attack on incoming convoys or maybe take a shot at a plane or the runway with a drone or something.
I just found it from googling/DDGing stuff right as the bombs happened and setting parameters for 24 hours. Since the news of the bombs was mostly from tweets at that point, all the articles were from several hours earlier warning of an imminent threat.
 

LindyAF

Well-known member
Even the media turned against him
So, why are people thinking A-stan is at all similar to any long standing ally?

Weird how this is the issue the media is turning on Biden over. Not.

To be honest I think it would behoove everyone to look skeptically at reporting / propagandizing that is in the direction of 1) "we need to stay longer" or "look how awful things are (now that the US has pulled out)" or "we need more presence for security" etc. and 2) making sure EVERYONE (or every American, or every SIV, or every w/e) leaves.

The chief criticism of Biden IMO should be that the US did not withdraw sooner (in line with Trump's date, which was in May. I think it's entirely possible, even likely, that had he remained in office the neocons would have gotten him to stick around past that too, but we'll never know).

"Our allies" in afghanistan - the government set up by the united states - were, for the most part, garbage. That's why they were collapsing even before the US pulled out, and totally collapsed with US withdrawal. The US tried different methods of fighting the corruption but it never worked because it wasn't just a few or even many corrupt people, the government the US set up was essentially the corruption itself. It was all grift. The richest man in Afghanistan (as of 2019) was a US interpreter who skimmed millions of dollars on transactions he negotiated with local vendors. US-allied warlord carried out attacks because if there were more insurgent attacks that meant more US funding. Karzai shut down attempts to tackled corruption, his successor Ghani, after he fled the country in August, had his own embassy ask Interpol to take him in for embezzling money. This sounds to me like it was someone trying to take out a rival, but also he is alleged to have fled with four cars and a helicopter full of cash.

"Our allies" in afghanistan were also frankly awful people. One of the Taliban's tactics was using the Afghanistan National Police's proclivity for "bacha bazi" (preying on young boys) to assassinate police. This wasn't a couple of incidents literally hundreds of officers in the ANP were killed that way. At one point IIRC the US just accidentally took sides in what was just a drug war because they mistook it for counter-insurgency. Additionally, it's my understanding that the US set up Afghanistan government organizations (like their Army and Police) were also widely infiltrated by the Taliban.

In almost every case that I've seen (I guess the exception is again, US government personnel and possibly NGO personnel) regarding people associated with the US stuck in Afghanistan, the media is using deceptive language to make the people in question seem more American. For instance, those "san diego students" were not American citizens, they were here on visas (from the article, probably ones granted to their parents for taking US money, which, see above). Even those who are technically citizens are generally paper citizens on technicality only, not your neighbors, and many of them went to Afghanistan in order to get in on grift.

However mismanaged this withdrawal is - any withdrawal is better than the alternative, which is no withdrawal, and the objective of any attack occurring right now is to get the US to remain in the region. The media framing is at least in some cases almost certainly has the same goals - that includes particularly much of the media on the Right, which has always had significant ties to the establishment and the neocon-ery that goes with that, and is looking to turn anti-Biden and conservativism sentiment into more unpopular foreign wars. There's a reason the National Review and people like Richard Lowry are calling this "the media's finest hour," along with all the other architects of the disastrous Iraq and Afghanistan wars. It is not because these people or the media suddenly want what's best for the American people.
 

Bassoe

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Holy shit this goes far beyond incompetence this is speaks of people completly detached to how the world outside western europe and the USA works.
At this point I really have to ask, if the Biden administration was purposely TRYING to get as many Americans killed and to humiliate the country they're theoretically supposed to be leading as badly as possible - what would they be doing differently?
This whole thing has been a massive defeat for the status quo. It made them or at least their chosen puppets look like incompetents, ended the excuse to steal taxpayer money which had as of yet stolen two trillion dollars and perhaps most importantly, demonstratively disproved Biden's claims that a guerrilla insurgency without "F-15s and maybe some nuclear weapons" could ever defeat the status quo.

Therefore, the status quo wants to restart the gravy train of more interventionism. They want a massacre which they can propagandize into justification.
People have tried to pull a "muh Reagan funded Mujahadeen! Muh GWB war! Muh Trump plan!" all of which mean nothing.
The thing they apparently don't get is, we also hated all of those. We want monroe doctrine isolationism.
 
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CurtisLemay

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Because Biden was a compromise candidate. His connection and support from Obama helped him with more moderate progressive and black voters, whereas his past history as a senator helped him with older voters and more moderate ones. The media really wanted Kamala, but she lost popularity in the early debates. And even with the Media holding Biden's hand, his team still had to basically bribe/threaten/beg for others to drop out so it wouldn't be contested (as that would further weaken their position).

Biden never really went into office with any sort of mandate, other than "Not Trump".

And I told my liberal friends who used to utter "Anything but Trump" to be careful what they wished for. Well, bet they aren't wondering about that now.

I don't think any of them are dumb enough to think they can duck this. That's not a good plan. I think they are honestly so confused and terrified, that they've locked up. This was supposed to be nice and clean. Then it fell apart. Then they put together some kind of organized way of getting things down. And now it's completely in the shitter. This is so beyond fucked, the only way it could get worse is if there's an actual hostage situation.

From your mouth to God's ears. God I hope not. I swear the footage I saw, at one point I thought Biden was going to collapse at the podium. The farce needs to end. Biden needs to be shuffled off the stage, Harris needs to try to govern (and I stress the word *try* because I don't think she'll manage any better) and be a gracious loser in '24.


No, that's not what is happening. The Deep State prides itself at being experts. You saw them in motion after Kabul fell. They set out a plan and contingency plans to get people out and keep it orderly. Sure, it wasn't going well, but there was some kind of orderly way of doing it. And now it's gone to complete hell. They can't just blame it on Biden, because they're as much to fault as he is now.

The new generation of the "Best and the Brightest" has learned little more than the previous one did. I wonder if Secretary Austin is looking at a picture of Robert Strange McNamara and wanting to fling it across the room.
 

The Original Sixth

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And I told my liberal friends who used to utter "Anything but Trump" to be careful what they wished for. Well, bet they aren't wondering about that now.

I'm not sure how progressives are going to respond to this. Normally I could check twitter to get an idea, but the Biden Democrats have been trying to push up #RespectBiden, so it's hard to tell. The counter one is so full of Republicans it's not even worth looking through.

This does look like a massive fallout between the media and the Biden administration though.



From your mouth to God's ears. God I hope not. I swear the footage I saw, at one point I thought Biden was going to collapse at the podium. The farce needs to end. Biden needs to be shuffled off the stage, Harris needs to try to govern (and I stress the word *try* because I don't think she'll manage any better) and be a gracious loser in '24.

She can't. Because right now, if Biden goes, she goes. She's been too publicly involved with the decision process for them to just make a clean break. She would basically have to come forward and try to sell the idea that it was all Biden's fault. Right now, the media is angry enough with the both of them that I can't imagine them letting that go. Even if she were put in charge, she would then have to try and fix the mess with the same team that helped create it.

So no one can really leave until this situation is over. Kamala might be able to take over sometime in September or October. Of course, doing so would be a tacit admission by the Biden admin and his family that he was a poor leader. I don't think that's a good idea either. More than likely, I think Biden and Kamala are going to try and power ahead after this debacle, but lots and lots of people are going to "resign" after this.

That way Biden takes the graceful route in admitting he was ultimately at fault, while alleviating the angry media by letting people go.


The new generation of the "Best and the Brightest" has learned little more than the previous one did. I wonder if Secretary Austin is looking at a picture of Robert Strange McNamara and wanting to fling it across the room.

The problem is that there seems to be a strong disconnect between them and what's happening on the ground. I get them fucking up the fall of the ANA, but everything that followed has been a series of fuck-ups. Not immediately telling Americans to evacuate, allowing for Afghans to swarm the air fields, allowing Afghans to camp around the airport, stranded Americans, struggling relations with the Taliban, and now terrorist attacks.

These are educated people with a plan, but they are so disconnected with what's happening that they're pissing off everybody.
 

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