United States The United States and Immigration Policy

Vaermina

Well-known member
Which is a lie, because it is tautological that the crime rate among illegal aliens is 100%.
Actually it's not, 8 U.S.C. Section 1325 only applies to those who entered the country illegally.

Not those who overstayed their visa's like a good portion of illegal immigrants did. And overstaying a Visa itself, unlike improper entry, isn't a violation of any US laws.
 
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Actually it's not, 8 U.S.C. Section 1325 only applies to those who entered the country illegally.

Not those who overstayed their visa's like a good portion of illegal immigrants did. And overstaying a Visa itself, unlike improper entry, isn't a violation of any US laws.


My apologies. You are correct. I suspect that still leaves the crime rate much higher than among native born citizens however. Cato is very much neglecting the crime of illegal entry.
 
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I might add that I would still have immigration open for certain oppressed minorities which have supported the United States and suffered horribly for it. Montagnards, for example, I think we have a moral obligation to welcome every single one of them to the United States, and we'd be a better place for it.
 

Es Arcanum

Princeps Terra
Founder
A country exists for the benefit of its citizens, foreigners can apply to join but no state is under any obligation to give them citizenship and thus permanent residence. A state can choose to do so but all states far as I know put restrictions on this voluntary magnanimity which they have an absolute right to enforce.

Refugee treaties don't seem to be enforced to the letter regarding seeking asylum in first country of transit and they open large avenues for abuse by people the treaties were never intended to cover. Bleeding hearts have made the treaties more trouble than they are worth. Frankly I'm all for tearing them up and my country at least even simply withdrawing from them entirely. You show up at our borders unannounced and we turn you back or send you straight back to whichever country you originated in or last transited.

Developed countries are in the enviable position of being able to pick and choose from the developing worlds population of people with skills, wealth or attributes that they desire and this should be taken advantage of. Not frittered away by virtue signalling sorts giving access to self selected country shoppers many of whom are of no real benefit to the developed nation and are just a drain on resources for years afterwards. If you just want warm bodies you can likely get just as many if not more by choosing which ones you want to come in. Outsourcing this important task to people smugglers and luck is just idiotic.
 

ShieldWife

Marchioness
>Easy process
>Government bureaucracy

Hahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahaha that's a good one. And ending birthright citizenship is one of those tangents which I view with utter disgust, and a perfect example of how we're better than those stupid Europeans who all but segregate minorities into little ghettos while simpering about how much better they are at us in terms of race.
Well, immigration needs to be regulated by the state if we are to have nations at all. At this point I would be willing to error on the side of less immigration than more.

As for birthright citizenship - it is preposterous and destructive, a deliberate exploitation of the language of the 14th Amendment that was intended to free slaves, not to allow for anchor babies and destroy the borders (and ultimately the existence) of the USA. The very idea that someone who has no ties to the USA, no history here, has contributed nothing, and perhaps even holds the nation in contempt (which their actions indicate) can walk across the border and give birth to an American citizen is obscene. If Trump could really get rid of birthright citizenship, it would be his greatest achievement as president thus far.

I also find it a bit bizarre to call European immigration policies racist when many of these nations bend over backwards providing immigrants with welfare, housing, and protections. Not only that, they bend over backwards accommodating many of these immigrants who hate European people and culture, even going so far as to arresting their own citizens who are critical and the suicidal immigration policies that politicians have been forcing on the citizens of far too many Western nations.
 
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Well, immigration needs to be regulated by the state if we are to have nations at all. At this point I would be willing to error on the side of less immigration than more.

And I think that is quite correct, for a multitude of reasons. States are organic bodies of people sharing custom and culture, who have familiarity with and care for the land in which they live.

As for birthright citizenship - it is preposterous and destructive, a deliberate exploitation of the language of the 14th Amendment that was intended to free slaves, not to allow for anchor babies and destroy the borders (and ultimately the existence) of the USA. The very idea that someone who has no ties to the USA, no history here, has contributed nothing, and perhaps even holds the nation in contempt (which their actions indicate) can walk across the border and give birth to an American citizen is obscene. If Trump could really get rid of birthright citizenship, it would be his greatest achievement as president thus far.

Jus soli is an American custom, though. Almost every single country in the Americas has it, while almost none outside of the Americas have it. I would say it is a complicated product of the history of the intermixing of peoples in the Americas, the demographic "Colombian exchange". To switch to Jus sanguinis would put us in line with Eurasia-Africa, but separate us from prevailing custom in the Americas. I can see the virtues of what you speak, but I am hesitant to change the custom because it was part of the powerful engine which quickly assimilated all the immigrants we had in the past. To lose it now might be to also lose the ability to ever assimilate immigrants in the future--but have we already done so, seeing our current failures? I don't think I have the answer to that.

I also find it a bit bizarre to call European immigration policies racist when many of these nations bend over backwards providing immigrants with welfare, housing, and protections. Not only that, they bend over backwards accommodating many of these immigrants who hate European people and culture, even going so far as to arresting their own citizens who are critical and the suicidal immigration policies that politicians have been forcing on the citizens of far too many Western nations.

The only thing that wouldn't be racist to the enemies of nation, identity, racination and culture would be completely open borders. And this has come about quickly; even though I find its depiction of Indian people absolutely revolting, at the time it came out, serious, mainstream conservative authors and columnists were reading and debating The Camp of the Saints as a serious, legitimate work on the potential consequences of overpopulation. Now it is held up as an alt-right Nazi manifesto (again, its treatment of the ancient and learned civilisation of India is so wicked that I don't really find that problematic--it's just a useful illustration of how rapidly the Overton is treated), and people seriously argue for the strawman-like open border policies the work contained.

And yet for all that, who would really want these refugees, especially the Syrians and Libyans? Aren't young men supposed to fight for the freedom of their homeland? Why are there so many running away when the battalions need reinforcements to fight against Assad? It may be to some extent hijacked by racists, but there is something very real and very profound going on that is seeing us intentionally make ourselves vulnerable. In the case of Europe, I can't help but wonder if it isn't a continued process from the end of colonialism. At no other time in history had such a great assemblage of Empires so rapidly and totally collapsed; we do not as yet know with the psychological-cultural impacts of it really are. Perhaps we are finding out.
 

ShadowsOfParadox

Well-known member
Jus soli is an American custom, though. Almost every single country in the Americas has it, while almost none outside of the Americas have it. I would say it is a complicated product of the history of the intermixing of peoples in the Americas, the demographic "Colombian exchange".
the 14th Amendment exists because post Civil War we needed a sane way to handle the simple fact that we had a bunch of non-citizens that it was silly to consider non-Citizens. I don't know the origins of it in other countries in the Americas but I'd suspect we'd find many of them did it because of the 14th Amendment if only because the US has meddled extensively in her backyard.
 

Aaron Fox

Well-known member
the 14th Amendment exists because post Civil War we needed a sane way to handle the simple fact that we had a bunch of non-citizens that it was silly to consider non-Citizens. I don't know the origins of it in other countries in the Americas but I'd suspect we'd find many of them did it because of the 14th Amendment if only because the US has meddled extensively in her backyard.
Actually, that was a thing before the 14th, it only became undeniable with the 14th... given that to be president you have to be a natural-born citizen.
 

Arch Dornan

Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
On the topic the wall is being built currently? It's what I heard while the media gets distracted when Trump shit posts.
 
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Actually, that was a thing before the 14th, it only became undeniable with the 14th... given that to be president you have to be a natural-born citizen.


I can’t help but think if that constitutional provision was the real start of it.
 
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there's been at least 60 miles of wall built, Border Patrol claims they'll have another 450 miles done by the end of 2020 or something

also some privately funded wall projects have been happening at the same time.


It’s not enough, though the area we need the wall isn’t actually the whole border.
 

Aaron Fox

Well-known member
I can’t help but think if that constitutional provision was the real start of it.
Here's the thing, it would make a real mess if it was only 'authorized' births and not 'natural' births. Also, it is easier to work with as it means that immigrants' children can be part of the government...
 
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Here's the thing, it would make a real mess if it was only 'authorized' births and not 'natural' births. Also, it is easier to work with as it means that immigrants' children can be part of the government...

Birthright citizenship isn't the problem anyway, it just requires very heavily fortified borders so we can control immigration, and tight restrictions on casual entry.
 

Aaron Fox

Well-known member
Birthright citizenship isn't the problem anyway, it just requires very heavily fortified borders so we can control immigration, and tight restrictions on casual entry.
Problem is that it makes it's own problems, especially with the fact that the world is becoming less and less stable overall. Between climate change and more and more nations becoming through various vectors. Also, walls don't exactly work, especially with various factors including Russia deciding that a world on fire is the best sort of world.

In the long-term -historically- immigration is a generally positive thing, the short and mid-term would too if it wasn't for the fact that -historically- companies would shortchange everyone involved to make more money at the expense of everyone else.
 

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