United States The United States and Immigration Policy

[Marduk]

You make claims, you substantiate them.


It is great, it is the bestest, cheapest, biggest wall ever, except we can't disclose how much money we are spending on patrols because...state security...

Yup, said no Commie apparatchik ever.

Sorry, dude.Citation needed.
Put up or stop whining.

Well then, put up.

As to Israel, well the construction is both a matter of greater urgency for them and they have lots of manpower for patrols, they draft their entire population.

If you want to practice this into "gib citation for anything on request" kind of pseudo debate assholery, i will turn it against you, and easily, because you have picked a particularly bad case to practice it on (you made an unsubstantiated assertion about current national security related manpower needs of a country not too open about that stuff and demanded "concrete statistics" from me on questioning your claim).

 

[Agent23]

Well then, put up.

For the last damned time, you are the one making some claims that you are not backing, you are supposed to back them!

You claim that Israel's wall is very cheap and easy to patrol, costing them little manpower, you put up or shut up.

 

[WolfBear]

So for the scale of US construction industry and GDP, it's not much.
Poland is a much poorer country than USA, with just 37 million population, the 115 mile wall took only half a year to build. If USA could build at that rate, it still could be done within 2 election cycles. If done more proportionally to USA's much larger economy, one should be easy - if only the political will was there.
Israel has a far greater wall building challenge:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier

Tiny 10 million country, 440 mile wall, almost quarter of what USA needs. It's about 2/3 done after about 2.5 decades, with lots of political delays included.
Long story short, walls are not rocket science, China has built an over 13,000 mile one before the age of trucks, mobile cranes, dozers and prefab concrete.

FWIW, don't a sizable number of illegal immigrants to the US overstay their visas? Or, alternatively, come to the US as, say, asylum seekers and then stick around here once their claims are denied?

For instance, this guy's parents came to the US from Bulgaria as asylum seekers and then had their asylum case denied but only heard about this several years later, after which point they got told by (I think) their lawyer to stick around here for the eventual amnesty that never actually came. They got deported to Bulgaria in 2010 or 2011 and were prohibited from setting foot on US soil again for ten years afterwards, which is a huge shame since they ran their own business over here:

https://m.facebook.com/ReuniteTheRadoulovFamilyFundraiser/posts

This guy himself remained in the US because the deportation order through which his parents were deported from the US did not include/mention him. (Lucky him!) He apparently suffered a severe car crash several years ago as a result of getting hit by a drunk driver and spent the last several years recovering and recuperating while still trying to find a way to bring his parents back over here. His parents' ten-year entry ban has already since expired since over ten years have already passed since their deportation from the US.

 

[WolfBear]

You are forgetting that there is a hell of a lot more political subdivisions than state and federal in the USA.

Those blue areas will bitch and moan like there is no tomorrow, for example, and sue the state and federal governments which means years and possibly millions in litigation.

Tejanos in the Rio Grande Valley have been trending more red recently:

 

[Skitzyfrenic]

don't a sizable number of illegal immigrants to the US overstay their visas? Or, alternatively, come to the US as, say, asylum seekers and then stick around here once their claims are denied?

Yes, but more the latter. There is a substantial amount of stay in the country illegal immigrants AFAIK. And AFAIK the majority of Asylum seekers will come to the border, get their asylum hearing court date, get released into the United States, and then never show up. Not 'wait until their claims are denied' but 'never show up so their claims are denied.'

IIRC Ted Cruz proposed, last president, to put a bunch of judges on the border so cases would be heard within six days instead of six months. This was deemed to be racist. Also something about 'not enough time with their lawyer' but my understanding of the situation is most don't even use a lawyer because they don't even show up for those meetings either. They already have what they want so they don't bother.

As to Visa stay behinders, I know a statistically significant chunk (I think most of the Visa Overstays are European/Australian/New Zealandish actually) of them are Europeans. I don't know how many Europeans are asylum seekers. But using them as examples of illegal immigrants is also racist because you're hiding your racist agenda using a European smoke screen.

Since there's a significant calling for evidence in the last page or so, I will state that this is my understanding of the situation gathered from bits and bobs of news over the years, and I don't have any articles in my back pocket to substantiate anything I have said. Take it with a grain of salt.

 

[WolfBear]

Yes, but more the latter. There is a substantial amount of stay in the country illegal immigrants AFAIK. And AFAIK the majority of Asylum seekers will come to the border, get their asylum hearing court date, get released into the United States, and then never show up. Not 'wait until their claims are denied' but 'never show up so their claims are denied.'

IIRC Ted Cruz proposed, last president, to put a bunch of judges on the border so cases would be heard within six days instead of six months. This was deemed to be racist. Also something about 'not enough time with their lawyer' but my understanding of the situation is most don't even use a lawyer because they don't even show up for those meetings either. They already have what they want so they don't bother.

As to Visa stay behinders, I know a statistically significant chunk (I think most of the Visa Overstays are European/Australian/New Zealandish actually) of them are Europeans. I don't know how many Europeans are asylum seekers. But using them as examples of illegal immigrants is also racist because you're hiding your racist agenda using a European smoke screen.

Since there's a significant calling for evidence in the last page or so, I will state that this is my understanding of the situation gathered from bits and bobs of news over the years, and I don't have any articles in my back pocket to substantiate anything I have said. Take it with a grain of salt.

Yeah, all of this sounds perfectly reasonable. One thing that I want to point out is that the Diversity Visa Lottery was created in part to provide a legalization path for the Irish illegal immigrants who lived in the US in the 1980s. It was initially done on a first come, first serve basis and only became truly random in or around 1995.

 

[bintananth]

Yeah, all of this sounds perfectly reasonable. One thing that I want to point out is that the Diversity Visa Lottery was created in part to provide a legalization path for the Irish illegal immigrants who lived in the US in the 1980s. It was initially done on a first come, first serve basis and only became truly random in or around 1995.

I think US immigration should be "Everyone except for terrorists is accepted".

That guy over there who doesn't speak a single word of English? He probably wants to be in the US and really doesn't want to be kicked out.

 

[WolfBear]

I think US immigration should be "Everyone except for terrorists is accepted".

That guy over there who doesn't speak a single word of English? He probably wants to be in the US and really doesn't want to be kicked out.

That would make funding a generous social safety net hard unless we're going to do IQ tests for immigrants. Not all countries necessarily have the same average IQ potential, after all.

 

[bintananth]

That would make funding a generous social safety net hard unless we're going to do IQ tests for immigrants. Not all countries necessarily have the same average IQ potential, after all.

The IQ stuff you drag in to conversations is really irritating.

You, I, and everyone else are double cousins at a mininum. The Y-chromosome guys get was passed from just one guy all the way to you from father-to-son without interruption. The mtDNA everyone gets is mother-to-daughter without interruption until it gets to a boy.

 

[Skitzyfrenic]

I think US immigration should be "Everyone except for terrorists is accepted".

I would be a bit more discerning than that, tbh. Rapists, Pedophiles, Embezzlers, Thieves, Murderers. I don't want people like that either. No reason to increase their numbers.

And you have to throttle it. History shows us that mass migrations usually leads to massive upswings in violence and crime especially among the lower economic classes. Even before the mass migrations that come at sword point.

Further, when a person immigrates, he or she brings a piece of their culture or politics. If you aren't careful you can import things that are currently bad.

Female genital mutilation, for instance, is AFAIK a pretty common practice in parts of Africa. If you aren't careful you will create a bloc of people for whom to be able to circumcise girls is important. And because DEMOCRACY!!!!1!!!!!!one!!! If that bloc is big enough, it could become socially acceptable circumcise girls by the now majority.

Or enough non-terrorist but devout Muslims from say Iran or Yemen (Countries where LGBTQ+ activities are criminalized up to the death penalty) and the Anti-LGBTQ+ bloc could become very, uh, bad. And powerful enough to vote in people to make it worse and worse for LGBTQ+ people.

Perhaps enough Chinese CCP people come to the USA or anywhere EU and they flood the voting blocs and then it becomes the will of the people to submit to the CCP as vassals.

If you are Socialist of any stripe, having positive immigration control is critical because you need to know how many people to give welfare/whatever you call it to. So you can predict and provide needed supplies to parts of society in the command part of your market. Or worse, you could bring in a capitalist! Enough of those and socialism goes down the drain.

Or you could be Texan and the flood of Californians are already making it difficult to be a small business owner with the heavy business taxes they voted for (and fled from).

Like there's no situation where, without a world wide government and world wide quality of life average at the very least, you don't want to have positive control of immigration.

 

[bintananth]

I would be a bit more discerning than that, tbh. Rapists, Pedophiles, Embezzlers, Thieves, Murderers. I don't want people like that either. No reason to increase their numbers.

I was being concise.

 

[History Learner]

Why do we need immigration at all? I'm personally of the 0 immigration, legal or otherwise, with a few caveats.

• Middle Eastern Christians can come in, because we screwed things up for them with our wars in the region. We broke it, we now need to buy it and I personally have a great affection for them.
• South African farmers; the farming attacks there are horrific and present a clear danger that RSA is not sufficiently addressing.
• Ukrainians fleeing the war there. I'm vehemently Pro-Russia in the conflict, but I still desire to help the civilians caught in the cross fire.

To link this with my "0" goal, we need to aggressively start cancelling H1b visas, among other things.

 

[WolfBear]

Why do we need immigration at all? I'm personally of the 0 immigration, legal or otherwise, with a few caveats.

• Middle Eastern Christians can come in, because we screwed things up for them with our wars in the region. We broke it, we now need to buy it and I personally have a great affection for them.
• South African farmers; the farming attacks there are horrific and present a clear danger that RSA is not sufficiently addressing.
• Ukrainians fleeing the war there. I'm vehemently Pro-Russia in the conflict, but I still desire to help the civilians caught in the cross fire.

To link this with my "0" goal, we need to aggressively start cancelling H1b visas, among other things.

With your approach, neither I nor my family would have ever ended up here. We had to wait nearly ten years to immigrate to the US as it was since America wouldn't accept us back in 1991, unlike in 2001.

Still, I find your approach interesting. Though if you want the US to keep a white majority, then having open borders with both the EU and Israel would probably be a good idea.

 

[WolfBear]

• Ukrainians fleeing the war there. I'm vehemently Pro-Russia in the conflict, but I still desire to help the civilians caught in the cross fire.

You support Russia creating a situation that risks plunging the world into nuclear war?

 

[LordsFire]

You support Russia creating a situation that risks plunging the world into nuclear war?

If you consider everything HL says from the perspective of 'his screen name is the direct opposite of the truth,' and that he's one of the people who has decided that because Russia is anti-western their propaganda should be absorbed more or less uncritically, what he says is a lot easier to understand.

 

[bintananth]

With your approach, neither I nor my family would have ever ended up here. We had to wait nearly ten years to immigrate to the US as it was since America wouldn't accept us back in 1991, unlike in 2001.

Still, I find your approach interesting. Though if you want the US to keep a white majority, then having open borders with both the EU and Israel would probably be a good idea.

My traceable great-great-great grandparents were Japanese siblings who came to the US in the 1850's pretending to be husband-and-wife while Chang and Eng Bunker (i.e: the original Siamese twins) were Asian slave-owners who married a pair of white southern sisters in 1843.

American racism gets wierd.

 

[Captain X]

 

[Husky_Khan]

I honestly don't know much about the 'Au Pair' program or its impact in regards to Immigration policy in the United States.

Don’t kill the au pair program

Biden has proposed further regulating the federal au pair program, which will disproportionately burden highly skilled working mothers.

reason.com

The Reason article obviously takes a pro-Au Pair program POV but regardless of ones stance it's interesting that it's apparently this sort of program, which benefits middle and upper class demographics, is apaprently being targeted by the Biden Administration for "reasons" as opposed to considerably and comparatively larger issues regarding immigration.

 

[Abhorsen]

The Reason article obviously takes a pro-Au Pair program POV but regardless of ones stance it's interesting that it's apparently this sort of program, which benefits middle and upper class demographics, is apaprently being targeted by the Biden Administration for "reasons" as opposed to considerably and comparatively larger issues regarding immigration.

Yeah, Biden's hits on immigration always have a particular slant to them. Like how the only 'illegal' immigrants he deports are the actual refugees fleeing communism from Venezuela & Cuba.