The Right and White Nationalism - An annoying cancer

[Wargamer08]

Yet your twisted definition of racism is a farce meant only to go on about how both sides are 'anti-white', as if 'white' is a distinct culture and that 'whiteness' must be preserved for its own sake.

We live in America, a melting pot of many races, many ethnicities, and as such, if you want to be an ethnic supremacist of any sort, or think 'preserving the white race' should be a priority, then LEAVE.

People like you are part of why I would not have kids with a 'white' woman, and why I'm fine chasing you to the fringes of American society.

Edit: Like a lot of this focus on 'anti-white' racism comes across like the Illinois Nazi's from Blues Brothers, only slightly dressed up.

So you’re a self-hating racist who is so committed to this ideology that you refuse to associate with certain women. You want to marginalized and destroy large chunks of the big tent ‘Right Wing’ ranging from anyone the opposition points out as racist to religious believers of all stripes; Protestants, Orthodox Jews, Hispanic Christians and the like. You declare that you’re a member of the LGBT community and react savagely to anyone questioning the privileges granted to your ingroup.

@Bacle I don’t know where you got the idea that you’re right wing, but my man you seem very lost. The more moderate wing of the Democratic Party sounds more your speed. You can literally keep all your current beliefs, push for moderation from left wing radicals and be among people that pretty much agree with you on all points.

 

[LindyAF]

The notion that race is just skin color (which I'm seeing repeated by like a half dozen people here) seems... entirely borrowed from a 5th grade understanding of the civil rights movement as a morality tale. An albino African is not European, nor is well-tanned European mixed.

Race is identifiable by bone structure, by bone marrow, by blood, and by genes. Different peoples have different rates of genetic diseases, different resistances to communicable diseases, different heights, are prone to different feats of athleticism- for instance, it's hardly coincidence that the fastest sprinters hail from one part of Africa and the fastest long distance runners another, nor is it coincidence that the world's greatest strongmen hail from Scandinavia. Skin color is merely an easily identifiable trait which correlates fairly well with broad racial categories.

 

[King Arts]

One thing I will agree with the OP about though is that the right wing should get rid of racism as it is self defeating there aren’t enough white people in America with conservative views. To be competitive we need to look at what we value and ally with some minorities. For example a good chunk of Latinos are Catholic we can start building a bridge with them so we can defend Christian heritage together also point out that the crazy leftists with their gender studies are being cultural imperialists by creating this fake term latinix instead of Latinos. Another group is Asians they might not be Christian but they are hard working industrious and like stability. Those are good conservative values. Also Asians are getting hurt by extreme violence from BLM and the ANTIFA riots. Getting those two groups to join the right would be a major boon as long as we play things smart it should be easy. We just have to avoid doing stupid distractions like foreign saber rattling, or accidentally saying something rude.

 

[LindyAF]

Sailer Strategy would work into the 2040s, and "natural conservativism" has never materialized. At least per polling, any "cultural conservatism" of immigrant groups disappears rapidly after the first 1-2 generations. If they assimilate, it's to progressivism.

There are exceptions obviously (for instance our very own Immortal War Dog)- and I'm open to finding common cause with anyone, but the idea that it would be easy or that there are a ton of free votes here that would be easily to pick up is erroneous.

Often the right likes to play up it's alignment with the perceived interests of some nonwhite group, but IMO this is mostly White people trying to advance our own interests by proxy, or to reassure boomers that they're not racist. For instance, we make a lot of hay out of the fact that affirmative action negatively impacts asians- which it does. Some asian organizations even help work against it.

But guess where polling says asians on average stand on the issue?

 

[Rocinante]

So you’re a self-hating racist who is so committed to this ideology that you refuse to associate with certain women. You want to marginalized and destroy large chunks of the big tent ‘Right Wing’ ranging from anyone the opposition points out as racist to religious believers of all stripes; Protestants, Orthodox Jews, Hispanic Christians and the like. You declare that you’re a member of the LGBT community and react savagely to anyone questioning the privileges granted to your ingroup.

@Bacle I don’t know where you got the idea that you’re right wing, but my man you seem very lost. The more moderate wing of the Democratic Party sounds more your speed. You can literally keep all your current beliefs, push for moderation from left wing radicals and be among people that pretty much agree with you on all points.

I won't speak too much for @Bacle because he can do that himself, but he and I are #walkaway democrats, which is why you will see us occasionally posting some kinda lefty stuff.

Now, I'm done speaking for bacle but I would like to build on that from my perspective. I voted for Obama, and I voted for Hillary.

The democrats, especially Obama, were REALLY good at being charasmatic and making their radical policy sound middle ground and neutral.

So I'm kind of a centrist I guess, but the left has shot WAY fucking left and the right honestly hasn't moved much, but has seemed to edge a little closer to moderate.

This doesn't make me a conservative, but this makes them my best option for voting.

I make concessions for the right wing positions I disagree with, because I think they're better for our country. I'm pro gay marriage, pro choice, and I'm pretty socially liberal in general. I'm more fiscally moderate, or even fully right in that regard. I'm definitely right/Trumpist on things like immigration and foreign affairs, and I am 100% with the right on freedom of speech, cancel culture and the related cultural wars.

Frankly, I think a lot of middle ground people are feeling left out with no where to go, and as long as republicans cool it on some of the rhetoric, they can pull a lot of those people in.

Anyways, i'm rambling, but I wanted a chance to expand on some my my views a little to put my argument in perspective.

I think the right catches the white nationalists because the democrats are actively anti-white. We need to find better ways to signal that we don't like to associate with them, and reach out to minority communities. I'm not sure how we do that, if you have ideas I am all ears.

 

[King Arts]

Sailer Strategy would work into the 2040s, and "natural conservativism" has never materialized. At least per polling, any "cultural conservatism" of immigrant groups disappears rapidly after the first 1-2 generations. If they assimilate, it's to progressivism.

There are exceptions obviously (for instance our very own Immortal War Dog)- and I'm open to finding common cause with anyone, but the idea that it would be easy or that there are a ton of free votes here that would be easily to pick up is erroneous.

Often the right likes to play up it's alignment with the perceived interests of some nonwhite group, but IMO this is mostly White people trying to advance our own interests by proxy, or to reassure boomers that they're not racist. For instance, we make a lot of hay out of the fact that affirmative action negatively impacts asians- which it does. Some asian organizations even help work against it.

But guess where polling says asians on average stand on the issue?

Are most Asians really pro affirmative action? I know I saw some bullshit like after a black mugger killed an old Asian man a bunch of people said let’s have a march against white supremacy. But I thought those Asians are idiots like our white college socialists. Are you saying most Asians are not able to be swayed?

I won't speak too much for @Bacle because he can do that himself, but he and I are #walkaway democrats, which is why you will see us occasionally posting some kinda lefty stuff.

Now, I'm done speaking for bacle but I would like to build on that from my perspective. I voted for Obama, and I voted for Hillary.

The democrats, especially Obama, were REALLY good at being charasmatic and making their radical policy sound middle ground and neutral.

So I'm kind of a centrist I guess, but the left has shot WAY fucking left and the right honestly hasn't moved much, but has seemed to edge a little closer to moderate.

This doesn't make me a conservative, but this makes them my best option for voting.

I make concessions for the right wing positions I disagree with, because I think they're better for our country. I'm pro gay marriage, pro choice, and I'm pretty socially liberal in general. I'm more fiscally moderate, or even fully right in that regard. I'm definitely right/Trumpist on things like immigration and foreign affairs, and I am 100% with the right on freedom of speech, cancel culture and the related cultural wars.

Frankly, I think a lot of middle ground people are feeling left out with no where to go, and as long as republicans cool it on some of the rhetoric, they can pull a lot of those people in.

Anyways, i'm rambling, but I wanted a chance to expand on some my my views a little to put my argument in perspective.

I think the right catches the white nationalists because the democrats are actively anti-white. We need to find better ways to signal that we don't like to associate with them, and reach out to minority communities. I'm not sure how we do that, if you have ideas I am all ears.

One thing I think we should do is use the lefts own weapons against them. The left uses the central government against southern states and puts oversight and restrictions on them that it doesn’t under the pretense that southern states are discriminatory towards blacks. Maybe we should do the same against California because of historic and current discrimination against Asian people. Punish the people who vote against us and reward those who are loyal.

 

[Wargamer08]

I won't speak too much for @Bacle because he can do that himself, but he and I are #walkaway democrats, which is why you will see us occasionally posting some kinda lefty stuff.

Now, I'm done speaking for bacle but I would like to build on that from my perspective. I voted for Obama, and I voted for Hillary.

The democrats, especially Obama, were REALLY good at being charasmatic and making their radical policy sound middle ground and neutral.

So I'm kind of a centrist I guess, but the left has shot WAY fucking left and the right honestly hasn't moved much, but has seemed to edge a little closer to moderate.

This doesn't make me a conservative, but this makes them my best option for voting.

I make concessions for the right wing positions I disagree with, because I think they're better for our country. I'm pro gay marriage, pro choice, and I'm pretty socially liberal in general. I'm more fiscally moderate, or even fully right in that regard. I'm definitely right/Trumpist on things like immigration and foreign affairs, and I am 100% with the right on freedom of speech, cancel culture and the related cultural wars.

Frankly, I think a lot of middle ground people are feeling left out with no where to go, and as long as republicans cool it on some of the rhetoric, they can pull a lot of those people in.

Anyways, i'm rambling, but I wanted a chance to expand on some my my views a little to put my argument in perspective.

I think the right catches the white nationalists because the democrats are actively anti-white. We need to find better ways to signal that we don't like to associate with them, and reach out to minority communities. I'm not sure how we do that, if you have ideas I am all ears.

Let me see if I can get this across to you. Organizations hold the values they do because of the people inside of them. Organizations themselves don’t have any values. This means for the #walkaway democrates that the organization you left your previous one to join has the values you find attractive because of the combined values of its current membership.

Now what’s really starting to annoy me with some #walkaway people is that they are giving all the standard lines and signals of typical leftist infiltrators. Let me try and explain.

The standard way you get a SJW or leftist takeover of an organization is you get a seemingly moderate leftist looking to join. They love your group/company and think they would be a perfect fit. A little while later they come to you and suggest that you add more people to your group/company that share their beliefs. A little while later and they tell you that things are great but that there should be just a few rules changes to help make them more comfortable. A little while passes and they tell you that a long time member needs to go because he/she is breaking the new rule or making them uncomfortable. And so on and so on until some of the members of the group/company look around and realize that every longtime member has long left or been thrown out and that they are uncomfortable with how radical things have gotten and that it’s time to leave. Starting to sound familiar?

 

[LindyAF]

Are most Asians really pro affirmative action? I know I saw some bullshit like after a black mugger killed an old Asian man a bunch of people said let’s have a march against white supremacy. But I thought those Asians are idiots like our white college socialists. Are you saying most Asians are not able to be swayed?

They're pro affirmative action by a margin of 75-25. Literally +50 in favor. And that's the margin backing a progressive policy when it clearly and openly disadvantages them.

I'm not sure if it's that they could never be swayed, but I do think that most asians culturally tend to go with the flow and happily side with the ruling power structure (at least if it is not openly against them). Political participation rates (voting etc.) by asians are really, really low, especially when you control for economic factors. And right now progressivism is pretty culturally dominant, especially in cities on the west coast where asians disproportionately live, so they tend to go with that. And also, I think the ones who are politically active see more value in negotiating within the left-wing rainbow coalition and taking the hit when it doesn't go in their favor.

Subsequent generation asians who are politically active are pretty much at where white college socialists are, politically.

 

[Rocinante]

Let me see if I can get this across to you. Organizations hold the values they do because of the people inside of them. Organizations themselves don’t have any values. This means for the #walkaway democrates that the organization you left your previous one to join has the values you find attractive because of the combined values of its current membership.

Now what’s really starting to annoy me with some #walkaway people is that they are giving all the standard lines and signals of typical leftist infiltrators. Let me try and explain.

The standard way you get a SJW or leftist takeover of an organization is you get a seemingly moderate leftist looking to join. They love your group/company and think they would be a perfect fit. A little while later they come to you and suggest that you add more people to your group/company that share their beliefs. A little while later and they tell you that things are great but that there should be just a few rules changes to help make them more comfortable. A little while passes and they tell you that a long time member needs to go because he/she is breaking the new rule or making them uncomfortable. And so on and so on until some of the members of the group/company look around and realize that every longtime member has long left or been thrown out and that they are uncomfortable with how radical things have gotten and that it’s time to leave. Starting to sound familiar?

I absolutely get your point, and through debating with you all over in the gay marriage thread, I have come to understand you all a lot better. That's what Iove about this site and many of the friends I had previous to here.

I can see how I come off as a concern troll. Honestly portions of the right are too right for me. But the the important things that really matter, I align with you guys on.

It's so nice that you guys on the right are willing to discuss and have conversations too.

This is a HUGE strength the right has over the left. I got doxxed and ousted from a website just for not being left enough for them. I haven't ever felt like that was going to happen here.

Anyways, not sure where I'm even going with this. Maybe a little off topic.

But I want to personally assure you, while I can't talk for anyone else, I am not trying to subvert or concern troll. I genuinely want to see the right thrive and take back our country because I believe the democrats are actively and intentionally destroying it.

Despite our disagreements, I am on your side, if anything just because I think we all need to be allies against what I see as an existential threat.

 

[strunkenwhite]

I am an ethnonationalist. But to the Left, that automatically means I am a racist. To them, ethnonationalism equals racialism which equals white nationalism which equals racism which equals white supremacy which equals Fascism which equals Nazism which equals genocide advocacy. And this despite the fact that there is no strict connection, let alone causal one, between these elements.

Serious question: isn't white nationalism a subset of ethnonationalism? If not, what are the differences?

 

[DocSolarisReich]

Serious question: isn't white nationalism a subset of ethnonationalism? If not, what are the differences?

Serious Answer: It depends. ‘White Nationalist’ could mean anything from ‘I’m white, and I’m a nationalist’ to ‘all whites everywhere should be United in a single ‘nation’’.

An ‘ethnonationalist’ denotes a concern for and loyalty to a particular ethnicity/people/language/kultur and generally the expectation that every other ethnicity do the same.

 

[Rocinante]

Serious Answer: It depends. ‘White Nationalist’ could mean anything from ‘I’m white, and I’m a nationalist’ to ‘all whites everywhere should be United in a single ‘nation’’.

An ‘ethnonationalist’ denotes a concern for and loyalty to a particular ethnicity/people/language/kultur and generally the expectation that every other ethnicity do the same.

I'm white, and I'm a nationalist, but white nationalist typically means in support of a white nation. Not being white while being a nationalist.

Technically even a black guy could be a white nationalist lol

 

[DocSolarisReich]

I'm white, and I'm a nationalist, but white nationalist typically means in support of a white nation. Not being white while being a nationalist.

Technically even a black guy could be a white nationalist lol

It is quite broad, yes. Generally speaking WN would connote a European Ethnonationalist who also believes in a unity of struggle for European Nations for Europeans. A Nationalist International if you will.

 

[Wargamer08]

I'm white, and I'm a nationalist, but white nationalist typically means in support of a white nation. Not being white while being a nationalist.

Technically even a black guy could be a white nationalist lol

Race is far more then the colour of someone’s skin. Just like an identity, it’s the sum total of a person.

 

[DocSolarisReich]

I'm white, and I'm a nationalist, but white nationalist typically means in support of a white nation. Not being white while being a nationalist.

This gets messy real quick, as this is a divide amongst ‘nationalists’ themselves. ‘Is civic nationalism a thing or a modern fakery?’

Ethnonationalists tend to say no, a ‘nation’ is a bloodline descent by definition, being cognate with ‘natal’.

While obviously civic nationalists disagree, that multiethnic states like Great Britain, the French Republic, Italy, or the United States are themselves ‘nations’ by shared devotion to some transcendent good. The crown. The constitution. Liberte, egalite, fraternite. Whatever.

 

[Bacle]

So you are going to be expressly political and say no to white women because of what you perceive to be racism from one person. This is so close to the woke bullshit liberals pull where they say stuff like white people marrying and having families is racism it’s laughable. Also I thought you said you were gay so you wouldn’t touch any woman let alone a white one.

But seriously has turned has the right idea a man has the right to be with any woman that will have him if you have yellow fever and like Asians that’s perfectly ok, if you like dark chocolate and want a black woman that is also your choice. If you like white women great. The reverse is also true if you find black features unattractive there is nothing wrong with that and you don’t have to like something. But there is something wrong with deciding your personal life based on woke leftest bullshit.

For fucks sake, I said I was bi, multiple times, yet no one seems to listen.

As for no white woman, it's also because I want my kids to have less melonomia risk; no turning into a lobster in the sun for them.

Plus, I grew up and lived around Lefty white women, and not interested in being attached to more of them. Heck, white woman (of both political types) bullied me far more than anyone else in my life, while 'minorities' (both men and women) have general treated me better because I was a pasty ass bean pole of a nerd for most of my life, who was no threat to them and never gave a damn about race. I even have some black cousins, and they were some of the only ones close to my age, even if I didn't get to see them much.

So you’re a self-hating racist who is so committed to this ideology that you refuse to associate with certain women. You want to marginalized and destroy large chunks of the big tent ‘Right Wing’ ranging from anyone the opposition points out as racist to religious believers of all stripes; Protestants, Orthodox Jews, Hispanic Christians and the like. You declare that you’re a member of the LGBT community and react savagely to anyone questioning the privileges granted to your ingroup.

@Bacle I don’t know where you got the idea that you’re right wing, but my man you seem very lost. The more moderate wing of the Democratic Party sounds more your speed. You can literally keep all your current beliefs, push for moderation from left wing radicals and be among people that pretty much agree with you on all points.

See what I said above.

I do want a Big Tent Right, but that is not the same as letting any group's religious view dictate the politics of the tent.

However, I won't deny I'm fine with pushing religious zealots out of the tent, if it will bring in more of the center; same with pushing out the neo-cons. As I said, I want more Rand Paul's on the Right, not more Romney's or Witzke's.

 

[Wargamer08]

This gets messy real quick, as this is a divide amongst ‘nationalists’ themselves. ‘Is civic nationalism a thing or a modern fakery?’

Ethnonationalists tend to say no, a ‘nation’ is a bloodline descent by definition, being cognate with ‘natal’.

While obviously civic nationalists disagree, that multiethnic states like Great Britain, the French Republic, Italy, or the United States are themselves ‘nations’ by shared devotion to some transcendent good. The crown. The constitution. Liberte, egalite, fraternite. Whatever.

Some writers idea to make ethnonationalism work, is just be willing to look the other way for exceptions that prove useful. Now that has its own problems but a nation is a big place for out of sight out of mind.

The issue I have with civic nationalism is that it requires both constant loyalty tests to the shared ideal and that the ideology remains dominant. Every man, capable of becoming Roman worked great until it didn’t.

 

[Marduk]

They're pro affirmative action by a margin of 75-25. Literally +50 in favor. And that's the margin backing a progressive policy when it clearly and openly disadvantages them.

I'm not sure if it's that they could never be swayed, but I do think that most asians culturally tend to go with the flow and happily side with the ruling power structure (at least if it is not openly against them). Political participation rates (voting etc.) by asians are really, really low, especially when you control for economic factors. And right now progressivism is pretty culturally dominant, especially in cities on the west coast where asians disproportionately live, so they tend to go with that. And also, I think the ones who are politically active see more value in negotiating within the left-wing rainbow coalition and taking the hit when it doesn't go in their favor.

Subsequent generation asians who are politically active are pretty much at where white college socialists are, politically.

To make more than a little sense out of this stuff one needs to realize that in US political context "Asians" as a voter group are a purely artificial bag, much like "Hispanics", consisting of few dozens or so of nationalities with different cultures and demographic profiles, and also different numerical impact on the whole grab bag of "Asians". A lot of them lean democrat, true, but a lot of their subgroups do so for shockingly different reasons. Some of it is raw propaganda/media power of DNC's allies - recently seen with these "scandals" about right wing politicians speaking of COVID with terms like "Chinese virus" and acting outraged that its "racist against Asians"... Waitaminute, Asians, all of them? Even the non-insignificant amount of them who aren't Chinese, and on top of that, even those who hate the CCP or despise China for reasons related to their own heritage?
After all, the famously controversial and hard hitting nickname for WHO, "Chinese Health Organization", has been coined not by some white nationalist, nor by Trump administration, but by a Japanese politician.

Certainly some of these groups, some were even making noises about that, want to get a piece of the affirmative action pie, because even though "Asian" category does nicely on economic and educational achievements, immigrants from certain Asian countries from which immigration has much less of a business/meritocratic profile than others absolutely do not and would qualify for it if they were not counted into an average together with Korean engineers, Indian businessmen and Chinese tax/nationalization dodging millionaires. And even when they don't, immigrants of a profile like this certainly like democrat's immigration and social welfare policy, while the latter group is naturally immersed in the progressive political culture of large cities and big tech, if they are very political at all, presenting a completely different challenge for the right to attempt to appeal to them.

And then there's the fact that Asia includes a certain number of Muslim countries, and as such the immigrants from them also count as Asian, affecting the politics and demographic profile of that grab bag.

Overall, that's just a few of massive fracture lines in democrat "Asian" appeal, though on the other hand, no party is going to give much effort to dealing with them, due to the relatively small scale of "Asian" demographic. "Hispanics" get more interest from both parties due to being more numerous.

 

[Wargamer08]

To make more than a little sense out of this stuff one needs to realize that in US political context "Asians" as a voter group are a purely artificial bag, much like "Hispanics", consisting of few dozens or so of nationalities with different cultures and demographic profiles, and also different numerical impact on the whole grab bag of "Asians". A lot of them lean democrat, true, but a lot of their subgroups do so for shockingly different reasons. Some of it is raw propaganda/media power of DNC's allies - recently seen with these "scandals" about right wing politicians speaking of COVID with terms like "Chinese virus" and acting outraged that its "racist against Asians"... Waitaminute, Asians, all of them? Even the non-insignificant amount of them who aren't Chinese, and on top of that, even those who hate the CCP or despise China for reasons related to their own heritage?
After all, the famously controversial and hard hitting nickname for WHO, "Chinese Health Organization", has been coined not by some white nationalist, nor by Trump administration, but by a Japanese politician.

Certainly some of these groups, some were even making noises about that, want to get a piece of the affirmative action pie, because even though "Asian" category does nicely on economic and educational achievements, immigrants from certain Asian countries from which immigration has much less of a business/meritocratic profile than others absolutely do not and would qualify for it if they were not counted into an average together with Korean engineers, Indian businessmen and Chinese tax/nationalization dodging millionaires. And even when they don't, immigrants of a profile like this certainly like democrat's immigration and social welfare policy, while the latter group is naturally immersed in the progressive political culture of large cities and big tech, if they are very political at all, presenting a completely different challenge for the right to attempt to appeal to them.

And then there's the fact that Asia includes a certain number of Muslim countries, and as such the immigrants from them also count as Asian, affecting the politics and demographic profile of that grab bag.

Overall, that's just a few of massive fracture lines in democrat "Asian" appeal, though on the other hand, no party is going to give much effort to dealing with them, due to the relatively small scale of "Asian" demographic. "Hispanics" get more interest from both parties due to being more numerous.

Never forget, rooftop Koreans showed us the way. Though on a more serious note, this exact thing exemplifies the issue with calling a group white anything. Like asians and hispanics and africans, whites is generally a very poor catchall term.

 

[DocSolarisReich]

Never forget, rooftop Koreans showed us the way. Though on a more serious note, this exact thing exemplifies the issue with calling a group white anything. Like asians and hispanics and africans, whites is generally a very poor catchall term.

It’s not meaningless, but it’s like when you’re building a house. A house is more than a foundation. But try building a house without a foundation, or more than one type of foundation.