Fallout The Eagle And The Bear [Fallout AU]

The NCR's propaganda officers aren't going to get far, and when they inevitably get frustrated they're going to stop acting like 'liberators' and instead like 'conquerors.'

The whole Chicago campaign is on the knife's edge at the moment. Remember, Lance doesn't just have to take O'Hare, he has to hold it for forty-eight hours against Alex Autumn's relief force. Presuming he's able to take it before that force arrives.

And which brings up the possibly interesting question of what happened to Father Elijah, the vault was meant as a survival bunker able to keep someone alive indefinitely and Elijah was already crackers enough to not off himself despite everything so many times before...

Even presuming it had sufficient supplies of food and water, it's been 50 years and he's been totally isolated since then. So he's either dead of old age or catatonic from the isolation.
 
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Cole had a knowing look on his face. Truth be told, most of the Cabinet did not know much about the new organisation or what its exact purpose was intended for - even Bishop and Weathers, in the General Plan, had not dwelt on what the 'destruction of the Enclave' meant in practice. As the sheer size of that problem had been discovered ...
This is really ominous. With how they treated Peoria, and their construction of prison camps for civilians it's clear that the NCR government has some very dark plans for the American populace. The NCR radicals seem to have transferred hatred of the supposed ruling elite of the Enclave to the entire populace.

While I hesitate to think that the NCR is intending to do some mass purge of the Enclave citizenry since most of the NCR are misguided rather than evil, it does look a lot like they're planning to do that.

I also have a feeling that when the NCR as a whole learns what the new Enclave is really like it's going to make the radicals more crazy, not less.
 
I also have a feeling that when the NCR as a whole learns what the new Enclave is really like it's going to make the radicals more crazy, not less.

They’ve come to far to stop

If they admit they were wrong then all they’ve done both to their own citizens and the Enclave and even those horrible deals with the CCP and Mexico will be for nothing
 
Cole is setting off serious alarm bells.

If Northern Californians all share the same attitude, then when the Enclave launch a counteroffensive and eventually reach NoCal, the Northern Californians will make WW2 Japan look sane and reasonable. Suicide bombings will become very common, along with a “take no prisoners” attitude like in the WW2 Pacific and Eastern front.
 
Cole is setting off serious alarm bells.

If Northern Californians all share the same attitude, then when the Enclave launch a counteroffensive and eventually reach NoCal, the Northern Californians will make WW2 Japan look sane and reasonable. Suicide bombings will become very common, along with a “take no prisoners” attitude like in the WW2 Pacific and Eastern front.

I think the Japanese Military even tried arresting the Emperor for thinking about surrendering before the bombs fell
 
This is really ominous. With how they treated Peoria, and their construction of prison camps for civilians it's clear that the NCR government has some very dark plans for the American populace. The NCR radicals seem to have transferred hatred of the supposed ruling elite of the Enclave to the entire populace.

You may note that most members of the NCR Cabinet don't know about this. As you can see, Bishop and Moore want an amnesty of all but E-US top leadership. But Cole has more influence on the President than them.
While I hesitate to think that the NCR is intending to do some mass purge of the Enclave citizenry since most of the NCR are misguided rather than evil, it does look a lot like they're planning to do that.

Is it misguided at all to want to defend your country against an unquestionably hostile foreign power, even if it means a pre-emptive war? Even putting aside that it's a democratic state, E-USA wants to conquer the NCR and has made that plain on multiple occasions. Is it misguided for the people of the NCR to take any course of action but "roll over and be conquered"?

I mean, putting aside the stuff based on bad data, the argument Dr. Irving presents is quite cogent:

They argue that they are the legitimate government from the pre-nuclear era. As if anything before that watershed matters! To call upon the spectre of a world that reduced itself to rubble is to already admit defeat. A world, we might add, that destroyed itself because of their mistakes. Mistakes that they in their cowardice ran from, abandoning hundreds of millions to die! This abandonment itself destroys any claim they make to legitimacy.

...

America was never a monarchy, and they owe us no debt of allegiance because of who their fathers were.

...

How can we have rebelled against those we never swore loyalty to, or seceded from a country we were never part of? Their expansion into the Caribbean islands also proves the lie that they simply seek to restore order in old American territory.

The NCR PoV is valid, and to a part based on false information. The US PoV is also valid, and to a part based on false information.

I also have a feeling that when the NCR as a whole learns what the new Enclave is really like it's going to make the radicals more crazy, not less.

It will bring more division. But some manner of peace negotiations between the two sides will definitely take place.

On a side-note, to a degree what the "new Enclave" is really like has no bearing on what the northern radicals want. They want revenge for their ancestors murdered in the FEV experiments, enslaved and turned into super mutants at Mariposa, held in inhumane conditions in the pre-War Chinese internment camps etc. They thought they were safe for forty years then suddenly - BAM! The Enclave are back, and they're stronger, they're expanding their rule over the east coast and nobody seems able to stop them! Then the NCR government's special-ops forces fail to stop them both at the Commonwealth and at New Orleans, while the Enclave teams up with the NCR's other nemesis, the Legion, and then the NCR government proceed to do nothing about the eastern threat for decades because they haven't got Texas on board and so they don't have all their ducks in a row.

Then the NCR Army goes in to save Texas, and succeeds ... only for the Texans to be ungrateful that they were saved from the Enclave!

The anger and resentment only grows and grows.

Cole is setting off serious alarm bells.

If Northern Californians all share the same attitude, then when the Enclave launch a counteroffensive and eventually reach NorCal, the Northern Californians will make WW2 Japan look sane and reasonable. Suicide bombings will become very common, along with a “take no prisoners” attitude like in the WW2 Pacific and Eastern front.

You may note that Lighthouser is from Redding. The "NCR North" isn't a hive mind.
 
Is it misguided at all to want to defend your country against an unquestionably hostile foreign power, even if it means a pre-emptive war? Even putting aside that it's a democratic state, E-USA wants to conquer the NCR and has made that plain on multiple occasions. Is it misguided for the people of the NCR to take any course of action but "roll over and be conquered"?

I mean that the NCR's ultimate wargoals are misguided. If the NCR was only trying to be recognized as an independent nation then I would probably support them over the Enclave.

They do deserve to have their own country and they certainly have the right to defend themselves, even preemptively. They don't have the right the right to imprison or execute people for things that happened before they were even alive.
 
Anyways . . . I'd assume it's going to be something where Autumn said he'll do the screenings but the "test" is just looking at someone and going, "Yep. You're definitely Human."

Hmm ... I actually checked this out on Reddit and it turns out that those who are killed ... are all ghouls. So, definitely not a good thing, but the BOS guns down non-feral ghouls in FO3 on sight too anyway.

It does debunk that whole "Autumn is just Eden/Richardson with extra steps" interpretation of FO3 though.
 
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Even presuming it had sufficient supplies of food and water, it's been 50 years and he's been totally isolated since then. So he's either dead of old age or catatonic from the isolation.
Ah, I was assuming the Crimson Rain was sourced from the Sierra Madre and as such the NCR would've forced open the vault as it's the heart of that place. That's what I get for assuming considering the tech comes from Big MT.

Since that's the case and frankly the Sierra Madre is one of, if not the most supernatural + mad science places in the FO'verse, it's interesting to think of what Elijah's hologram is to that place...
 
Oh, sure. I always kind of figured it'd be a thing where you have to be obviously mutated. But I've pretty much from the start argued that, outside of special exemptions, even an Autumnist Enclave would probably exterminate any Ghouls or Super Mutants.

The likes of Fawkes, rare though sane east coast muties might be, can probably give them a serum now.

With Ghouls I figure they'd even look at it as a kind of mercy. "You're going to all go feral one day and force us to put you down regardless, might as well go out before the neural degradation makes you waste away mentally."
 
Oh, sure. I always kind of figured it'd be a thing where you have to be obviously mutated. But I've pretty much from the start argued that, outside of special exemptions, even an Autumnist Enclave would probably exterminate any Ghouls or Super Mutants.

The likes of Fawkes, rare though sane east coast muties might be, can probably give them a serum now.

With Ghouls I figure they'd even look at it as a kind of mercy. "You're going to all go feral one day and force us to put you down regardless, might as well go out before the neural degradation makes you waste away mentally."

I recall an Enclave-born officer telling a wasteland-recruit of all people NOT to kill Hancock

I think they’re “quarantined” or live in a ghetto of sorts here
 
I'm afraid if their was some historical significance to the flag it is lost on me.:unsure:
Well looking at it, it has some similarity to the Dominican Republic flag. Including having its Coat of Arms. This probably has to deal with its association of nearly being annexed by the United States in 1869 by treaty.

It nearly went through with a probably a fixed referendum in the Republic due to the government's fears of being invaded by Haiti again so instead decided the US probably would be nice protector and that they would have enough local autonomy as a territory or even maybe become a state later.

Nearly went through, President Grant thought it would be good to have a nearly all black territory and maybe eventual state for US blacks to either move/escape to because of persecution and/or help push through Civil Rights reform more, but the Senate voted 28 to 28 on the treaty, so it didn't come to pass.

Flag of the Dominican Republic (República Dominicana)
1920px-Flag_of_the_Dominican_Republic.svg.png

 
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Speaking of Commonwealths, what power exactally do they have? How much of the power that states and the Federal government have in real life lies in the commonwealths?
 
Well looking at it, it has some similarity to the Dominican Republic flag. Including having its Coat of Arms. This probably has to deal with its association of nearly being annexed by the United States in 1869 by treaty.

It nearly went through with a probably a fixed referendum by the in the Republic due to the government's fears of being invaded by Haiti again so instead decided the US probably would be nice protector and that they would have enough local autonomy as a territory and maybe state even maybe become a state later.

Nearly went through, President Grant thought it would be good to have a nearly all black territory and maybe eventual state for US blacks to either move/escape to because of persecution and/or help push through Civil Rights reform more, but the Senate voted 28 to 28 on the treaty, so it didn't come to pass.

Flag of the Dominican Republic (República Dominicana)
1920px-Flag_of_the_Dominican_Republic.svg.png
The two triangles seem to be from the flags of Cuba and Puerto Rico. The red background is Cuba, while the blue background is Puerto Rico.
 
Speaking of Commonwealths, what power exactally do they have? How much of the power that states and the Federal government have in real life lies in the commonwealths?

It's not a case of powers being split so much as Commonwealths being an intermediary tier between Federal and State Governments - though Commonwealth governments largely exist to co-ordinate the actions of States within that Commonwealth. House of Representatives' seats are also divided amongst the Commonwealths, the District court system was replaced during the early restoration with a Commonwealth-Court system, etc.
 

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