Tanks and other Armoured Vehicles Image thread.

Aaron Fox

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The increase in power simply wasn't big enough to justify increase in weight, recoil and space taken, along with decreased ammo capacity.
However, that was before the US got a hold of the East German tank park which is one of the better equipped Warsaw Pact nations other than Poland and the USSR if I remember right... which led to the development of the modern APFSDSDU darts. Without ETC propellant technology, the only way to get more punching power for tank guns is by increasing gun caliber for a long while now.

That is why the US was going -quite literally- all in on ETC technology as the Cold War came to a close. You'll get zoomy projectiles with such tech. ;)
 

LordSunhawk

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Nope, APFSDSDU was an 70's/80's project that was first fully used in the Gulf War.
 

Aaron Fox

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Nope, APFSDSDU was an 70's/80's project that was first fully used in the Gulf War.
The 'Silver Dart' yes, the modern APFSDSDU rounds -you know, the ones with the segmented dart- were -from what I've read- testing said 'Silver Dart' rounds at fully kitted East German tanks and discovering that... Silver Dart rounds weren't all that effective with such kit. So a development program for a new APFSDSDU round was quickly started and a vastly improved APFSDSDU round was created with some interesting features like the segmented dart to aid in reactive armor penetration (if I read the various articles right).
 

ATP

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The increase in power simply wasn't big enough to justify increase in weight, recoil and space taken, along with decreased ammo capacity.
Thanks.It was how much - 29 rounds for 140mm gun? but,coaxial guns are simply cool.
I read, that Slovakia made some t.72 version with 2 23mm AA guns on turret,but i forget details.
 

PsihoKekec

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However, that was before the US got a hold of the East German tank park which is one of the better equipped Warsaw Pact nations other than Poland and the USSR if I remember right... which led to the development of the modern APFSDSDU darts.
While East German T-72s were tested extensively, there was also another testing of the T-80 tanks purchased through ruse in Ukraine. Results of these tests are still classified and it is presumed that these tests were the main catalyst in the development of the modern AP ammo.

I read, that Slovakia made some t.72 version with 2 23mm AA guns on turret,but i forget details.
That project was frankly stupid, a gun on each side of the turret, so they can't be zeroed on the main gun, adding to targeting complexity, burdened with all the problems of turret traverse and no radar, so they would be of very limited value. Not to mention that probably even designers themselves weren't sure where they would get the ammo feed from.

The French are making a 140MM Leclerc.
They need something to keep their tank industry alive, they believe the upgunning it is.
 

Aaron Fox

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While East German T-72s were tested extensively, there was also another testing of the T-80 tanks purchased through ruse in Ukraine. Results of these tests are still classified and it is presumed that these tests were the main catalyst in the development of the modern AP ammo.
Huh, I always through it was the East German armor park that influenced that decision...
 

PsihoKekec

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They had basic T-72 Ural and M tanks (with some improvements of their own), not A and B version which had improved armor. Still, even Ural version was invoulnerable from front for 105 ammo and most missiles, except latest versions of TOW and Milan (not to mention Hellfire and Maverick).
 

Zachowon

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Only because it'll take a good two decades to get an ETC weapon to be viable.
It do far is working, and the crew size stays the same
While East German T-72s were tested extensively, there was also another testing of the T-80 tanks purchased through ruse in Ukraine. Results of these tests are still classified and it is presumed that these tests were the main catalyst in the development of the modern AP ammo.



That project was frankly stupid, a gun on each side of the turret, so they can't be zeroed on the main gun, adding to targeting complexity, burdened with all the problems of turret traverse and no radar, so they would be of very limited value. Not to mention that probably even designers themselves weren't sure where they would get the ammo feed from.


They need something to keep their tank industry alive, they believe the upgunning it is.
The French have the time and money to give it a go. The US just keeps updating the Abrams
 

ATP

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I read, that both USA and South Korea new tanks would get railguns. It is possible, or not ?
 

Aaron Fox

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I read, that both USA and South Korea new tanks would get railguns. It is possible, or not ?
No, our capacitors aren't that compact yet. ETC-FLARE guns are the most likely in the near future (i.e. 2+ decades down the line), railguns/coilguns will be likely a century away due to the capacitor requirements.
 
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paulobrito

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I think you are talking 20+ years, not 20+ decades... that is 200+ years, just saying.
 

Aaron Fox

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GVB (GURPS Vehicle Builder, 3rd Edition/Vehicles 2nd Edition) writeup of Remake GDI MBT:
TL9 GDI MBT-01 Paladin Main Battle Tank

Crew: 4 total; 1x Driver, 1x Gunner, 1x Electronic Warfare Officer (EWO), 1x Commander

Subassemblies: Vehicle +6, Hull +6, Turret [Hull:T] +5, Gun AMS Mount [Turret:T] +2, Gun AMS Mount [Turret:T] +2, Remote Weapon Station (HMG) [Turret:T] +2, Remote Weapon Station (HMG) [Turret:T] +2, Tracks +6. 

P&P: 2,500-kW Fuel Cell Powerpack (short term access), four 200-MJ rechargeable 200MW Battery Packs, 750-kW Drivetrain (short term access). 

Fuel: 11,356 liter self-sealing ultralight Main Fuel Tank (fire modifier -1). 

Occ: four cramped Crew Compartments (airbag, crashweb), 4-man NBCT Kit, 8 man-day Primary Life Sustaining System, 4 man-day Secondary Life Sustaining System    Cargo: 

Armor                           F       RL    B    T    U
Hull                            6/2,000 5/225 4/75 4/45 4/35
Turret (T)                      6/2,000 5/225 4/85 4/45 0/0
Gun AMS Mount (T)               3/30    3/30  3/30 3/30 0/0
Gun AMS Mount (T)               3/30    3/30  3/30 3/30 0/0
Remote Weapon Station (HMG) (T) 3/30    3/30  3/30 3/30 0/0
Remote Weapon Station (HMG) (T) 3/30    3/30  3/30 3/30 0/0
Tracks                          3/30    3/30  3/30 3/30 3/20

Weaponry                                     Malf  Type Damage         SS Acc 1/2D m Max m  RoF TL
12.7mm GDI 12.7mm M2 HMG                     Ver.  Cr   15d+1          20 15  1,463  5,852  13  9
150mm GDI 150mm L/50 Autoloading Tank Cannon Crit. Cr   5dx27          30 15  3,109  9,144  1/8 8
6.5mm GDI 6.5mm AMS System                   Ver.  Cr   8d-1           17 14  1,006  4,663  50  9
12.7mm GDI 12.7mm GAU-8 HMG                  Ver.  Cr   15d+1          20 15  1,463  5,852  50  9
6.5mm AP 6.5x40mm AP Round Bin               -     Cr   8d-1(2)        -  14  1,006  4,663  -   9
6.5mm API 6.5x40mm API Round Bin             -     Cr   8d-1(2)        -  14  1,006  4,663  -   9
6.5mm solid 6.5x40mm Ball Round Bin          -     Cr   8d-1           -  14  1,006  4,663  -   9
12.7mm AP 12.7mm AP Round Bin                -     Cr   15d+1(2)       -  15  1,463  5,852  -   9
12.7mm API 12.7mm API Round Bin              -     Cr   15d+1(2)       -  15  1,463  5,852  -   9
12.7mm solid 12.7mm Ball Round Bin           -     Cr   15d+1          -  15  1,463  5,852  -   9
12.7mm AP 12.7mm AP Ammo Bin                 -     Cr   15d+1(2)       -  15  1,463  5,852  -   9
12.7mm API 12.7mm API Ammo Bin               -     Cr   15d+1(2)       -  15  1,463  5,852  -   9
12.7mm solid 12.7mm Ball Ammo Bin            -     Cr   15d+1          -  15  1,463  5,852  -   9
150mm APFSDSDU 150mm APFSDSDU Ammo Bin       -     Cr   6dx45(3)       -  16  4,663  13,716 -   9
150mm beehive 150mm Beehive Ammo Bin         -     Imp  2d+2           -  15  3,109  9,144 -   9
150mm HE 150mm HE Ammo Bin                   -     Exp  10dx95 [10d]   -  15  3,109  9,144 -   9
150mm HEDP 150mm HEAT-MP Ammo Bin            -     Exp  5dx45(5) [10d] -  15  3,109  9,144 -   9
150mm APEX 150mm PELE Ammo Bin               -     Cr   5dx27(2)       -  15  3,109  9,144 -   9

Equipment
Hull: three Crew Terminalss; Combat Program-12 (C4); ten microframe Computer Cores (complexity 5; hardened, very high capacity, supercompact); Electronic Deception System (jammer rating 10); five +10 Fire Control Softwares (C9); two FutureWarrior Datalinks (C1); two military GPSs; IFF Transponder; two IFFs; four short range Laser Comms (200-mile range; scrambler); four Laser Detection Systems; short range Radio Set (100-mile range; VLF, ELF, direction finder); hitch.  Turret (T): 12.7mm GDI 12.7mm M2 HMG (F, extremely long barrel; caseless ammo); 150mm GDI 150mm L/50 Autoloading Tank Cannon (F, long barrel; plastic cased ammo); General Search LIDAR Array (T, scan 19, 20-mile range; air search, surface search, no targeting, high-res imaging, LPI); Ground LIDAR Targeting Array (T, scan 17, 10-mile range; surface search, high-res imaging, LPI); Gun Stabilizer; two HUDWACs (near miss indicator); two LASs (T); two Laser Range Finders (2-mile range); two LLTVs (T, magnification x1,400); 3,000 rounds 12.7mm AP 12.7mm AP Ammo Bin; 3,000 rounds 12.7mm API 12.7mm API Ammo Bin; 3,000 rounds 12.7mm solid 12.7mm Ball Ammo Bin; two 1.38-m^3 150mm AP Magazines; 50 rounds 150mm APFSDSDU 150mm APFSDSDU Ammo Bin; 30 rounds 150mm beehive 150mm Beehive Ammo Bin; three 0.831-m^3 150mm Explosive Magazines; 30 rounds 150mm HE 150mm HE Ammo Bin; 30 rounds 150mm HEDP 150mm HEAT-MP Ammo Bin; 50 rounds 150mm APEX 150mm PELE Ammo Bin; 720 chaff Chaff Discharger Reloadss; 720 flare Flare Discharger Reloadss; 12 chaff Turret Chaff Discharger (Front)s; 12 chaff Turret Chaff Discharger (Front)s; 12 chaff Turret Chaff Discharger (Left)s; 12 chaff Turret Chaff Discharger (Left)s; 12 chaff Turret Chaff Discharger (Right)s; 12 chaff Turret Chaff Discharger (Right)s; 12 flare Turret Flare Discharger (Front)s; 12 flare Turret Flare Discharger (Front)s; 12 flare Turret Flare Discharger (Left)s; 12 flare Turret Flare Discharger (Left)s; 12 flare Turret Flare Discharger (Right)s; 12 flare Turret Flare Discharger (Right)s.  Gun AMS Mount (T): 20,000 rounds 6.5mm AP 6.5x40mm AP Round Bin; 210,000 rounds 6.5mm API 6.5x40mm API Round Bin; 20,000 rounds 6.5mm solid 6.5x40mm Ball Round Bin; AMS Mount; AMS Stabilizer; Anti-Missile System LIDAR (T, scan 17, 10-mile range; air search, surface search, high-res imaging); 6.5mm 3-barrel GDI 6.5mm AMS System (T, extremely long barrel; plastic cased ammo).  Gun AMS Mount (T): 20,000 rounds 6.5mm AP 6.5x40mm AP Round Bin; 20,000 rounds 6.5mm API 6.5x40mm API Round Bin; 20,000 rounds 6.5mm solid 6.5x40mm Ball Round Bin; AMS Mount; AMS Stabilizer; Anti-Missile System LIDAR (T, scan 17, 10-mile range; air search, surface search, high-res imaging); 6.5mm 3-barrel GDI 6.5mm AMS System (T, extremely long barrel; plastic cased ammo).  Remote Weapon Station (HMG) (T): 10,000 rounds 12.7mm AP 12.7mm AP Round Bin; 10,000 rounds 12.7mm API 12.7mm API Round Bin; 10,000 rounds 12.7mm solid 12.7mm Ball Round Bin; 12.7mm 3-barrel GDI 12.7mm GAU-8 HMG (T, extremely long barrel; plastic cased ammo); HUDWAC (near miss indicator); LLTV (T, magnification x700); RWS Stabilizer; RWS Universal Mount (concealed).  Remote Weapon Station (HMG) (T): 10,000 rounds 12.7mm AP 12.7mm AP Round Bin; 10,000 rounds 12.7mm API 12.7mm API Round Bin; 10,000 rounds 12.7mm solid 12.7mm Ball Round Bin; 12.7mm 3-barrel GDI 12.7mm GAU-8 HMG (T, extremely long barrel; plastic cased ammo); HUDWAC (near miss indicator); LLTV (T, magnification x700); RWS Stabilizer; RWS Universal Mount (concealed).  

Statistics
Size: [LxWxH] 15 m x5 m x4.08 m     Payload: 20,716 kg    Lwt.: 70,418 kg
Volume: 266 m^3    Maint.: 2.78 hours (34.5 mh/day)    Price: $51,592,117 

HT: 9    HP: 3,000 [Hull], 1,200 [Turret (T)], 19 [Gun AMS Mount (T)], 12 [Gun AMS Mount (T)], 37 [Remote Weapon Station (HMG) (T)], 37 [Remote Weapon Station (HMG) (T)], 1,500 each [2xTracks]. 

Tread Profile: Speed Factor 13, Top Speed 64.4 kph, gAccel 3.22 kph/s, gDecel 32.2 kph/s, gMR 0.75, gSR 7, Ground Pressure 388 lbs./sf, Off Road Speed 48.3 kph.


Design Notes: 
TL9 super light frame expensive materials [Gun AMS Mount].
TL9 super light frame expensive materials [Gun AMS Mount].
TL9 extra light frame standard materials [Remote Weapon Station (HMG)].
TL9 extra light frame standard materials [Remote Weapon Station (HMG)].
TL9 multi-section medium frame very expensive materials [Turret].
TL9 multi-section medium frame very expensive materials [Vehicle].
T TL9 DR 20 advanced metal, U TL9 DR 20 advanced metal, L TL9 DR 50 advanced metal, R TL9 DR 50 advanced metal, F TL9 DR 250 advanced metal, B TL9 DR 20 advanced metal; Layer 2: T TL9 DR 15 advanced composite, U TL9 DR 15 advanced composite, L TL9 DR 50 advanced composite, R TL9 DR 50 advanced composite, F TL9 DR 500 advanced composite, B TL9 DR 30 advanced composite; Layer 3: T TL9 DR 10 advanced durable ablative, L TL9 DR 50 advanced durable ablative, R TL9 DR 50 advanced durable ablative, F TL9 DR 250 advanced durable ablative, B TL9 DR 25 advanced durable ablative [Hull].
TL9 DR 10 expensive metal; Layer 2: TL9 DR 10 expensive composite; Layer 3: TL9 DR 10 expensive durable ablative [Gun AMS Mount].
TL9 DR 10 expensive metal; Layer 2: TL9 DR 10 expensive composite; Layer 3: TL9 DR 10 expensive durable ablative [Gun AMS Mount].
TL9 DR 10 expensive metal; Layer 2: TL9 DR 10 expensive composite; Layer 3: TL9 DR 10 expensive durable ablative [Remote Weapon Station (HMG)].
TL9 DR 10 expensive metal; Layer 2: TL9 DR 10 expensive composite; Layer 3: TL9 DR 10 expensive durable ablative [Remote Weapon Station (HMG)].
T TL9 DR 20 advanced metal, L TL9 DR 50 advanced metal, R TL9 DR 50 advanced metal, F TL9 DR 250 advanced metal, B TL9 DR 20 advanced metal; Layer 2: T TL9 DR 15 advanced composite, L TL9 DR 50 advanced composite, R TL9 DR 50 advanced composite, F TL9 DR 500 advanced composite, B TL9 DR 40 advanced composite; Layer 3: T TL9 DR 10 advanced durable ablative, L TL9 DR 50 advanced durable ablative, R TL9 DR 50 advanced durable ablative, F TL9 DR 250 advanced durable ablative, B TL9 DR 25 advanced durable ablative [Turret].
TL9 DR 10 open frame skirt expensive metal; Layer 2: TL9 DR 10 open frame skirt expensive composite; Layer 3: TL9 DR 10 open frame expensive durable ablative [Tracks].
Operating Duration:  10 H 26 M 5 S.
Payload Cost: $1,368,600
Vehicle Features: computerized controls, pressure proofed, good streamlining.
Hull: 60° Front Slope, 30° Left Slope, 30° Right Slope.
Tracks: quantity 2, non-standard sizex1.5, improved suspension, smart tracks.
Turret: full rotation, heavy compartmentalization, 60° Front Slope, 30° Left Slope, 30° Right Slope.
Gun AMS Mount: retractable, full rotation.
Gun AMS Mount: retractable, full rotation.
Remote Weapon Station (HMG): retractable, full rotation.
Remote Weapon Station (HMG): retractable, full rotation.
Volume: 114 m^3 [Hull], 42.9 m^3 [Turret (T)], 2.17 m^3 [Gun AMS Mount (T)], 1.19 m^3 [Gun AMS Mount (T)], 1.48 m^3 [Remote Weapon Station (HMG) (T)], 1.48 m^3 [Remote Weapon Station (HMG) (T)], 103 m^3 [Tracks].
Area: 186 m^2 [Hull], 74.3 m^2 [Turret (T)], 11.6 m^2 [Gun AMS Mount (T)], 6.97 m^2 [Gun AMS Mount (T)], 9.29 m^2 [Remote Weapon Station (HMG) (T)], 9.29 m^2 [Remote Weapon Station (HMG) (T)], 186 m^2 [Tracks].
Tread Profile:;
This is probably what a near-future MBT would look like before ETC-FLARE guns start to become a thing. Two AMS style systems for anti-missile defense, lots of RWS mounts, oodles of electronics, likely using fuel-cell power packs instead of ICE/turbine engines, and the main gun is a 150mm conventional gun.

Also, youtube video:
 
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Husky_Khan

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It's Saturday and you know what that means!!!






#STUGLIFE SATURDAY!



Peek-a-boom! :cool:

I was going to make a Jehovah Witnessess joke here but then I remembered... yeah...
 

Aaron Fox

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Mmmm give it to me.... full bore. 😋

Pure performance indeed...
It's a compromise gun and everyone knows it. No one in NATO wants to put a 140mm gun on their tanks right now but the 120mm is becoming obsolete as a tank cannon... so the 130mm is made as a compromise until ETC tank guns get operational (which is going to take decades).

Also, tax:
 

ATP

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I once read about some "invisible" tank prototype made in England, but i forget who made it.
/invisible - in a sense, that tank automatically changed colour to look like terrain behind it/
 
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