Tanks and other Armoured Vehicles Image thread.

[Jormungandr]

Bradley ADATS, the US Army was going completely in for this, had it all lined up and everything, manuals, training pipelines, you name it, it was pretty much set up... then the Cold War ended...

That was the M113 variant of the system. Then again, it is considered cancer in WarThunder.

I could see the Brotherhood of Nod in Command and Conquer: Tiberian Dawn using this on both vehicles (and the Allies using it in Red Alert on the M113 APC chassis), in a more realistic portrayal of the First War.

It's interesting food for thought...

 

[ShadowArxxy]

While classic, Tiberian Dawn had rather poor game balance as it is, and adding an *extremely* powerful anti-everything unit like the ADATS would make it rather worse.

 

[Aldarion]

Bradley ADATS, the US Army was going completely in for this, had it all lined up and everything, manuals, training pipelines, you name it, it was pretty much set up... then the Cold War ended...

While classic, Tiberian Dawn had rather poor game balance as it is, and adding an *extremely* powerful anti-everything unit like the ADATS would make it rather worse.

 

[Zachowon]

The intent of the Scouts was to raise boys to be men of good character and outdoor skills, including skills relevant to military service, and yet Lord Baden-Powell firmly rejected the idea of Scouts as a specifically pre-military program, as an explicit contrast with several other youth movements of the day which *were* military in nature.

True it was not purely military it was founded with intent for those who want to be in the military.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

The evolved "Multi-Mission Effects Vehicle" was even more versatile than ADATS. It carried four ADATS missiles, two 7-round CRV rocket pods, two ground launch modified IRIS-T anti-aircraft missiles, a machine gun in a semi-independent RWS mount, a compact 3D search radar, and full NATO datalinking.

 

[LordSunhawk]

Rheinmetall

The Panther is the first of its kind: Rheinmetall's radically new main battle tank concept drawing on some of the latest technologies.

www.rheinmetall-defence.com

 

[paulobrito]

Rheinmetall

The Panther is the first of its kind: Rheinmetall's radically new main battle tank concept drawing on some of the latest technologies.

www.rheinmetall-defence.com

So, the German version/reaction to the T-14 Armata?

 

[ShadowArxxy]

Nah, more like a great big pile of marketing buzzwords.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Nah, more like a great big pile of marketing buzzwords.

You caught that too, huh?

 

[ShadowArxxy]

You caught that too, huh?

Well, the 130mm gun does in fact exist, it's what Rheinmetall has been pitching for several years as a next-gen tank gun. It's interesting because all previous practical work on the "next size" tank cannon was focused on 140mm, and then all of that ended up being back-burnered in favor of improved ammunition technology in 120mm. Those ammo improvements were cheaper in the short term, and would logically still pay off in the long term because their advantages could be carried forward to the ammunition for new calibers.

 

[Bacle]

I'm rather surprised they dared to call it a Panther, after how much Germany wants to distance itself from WW2.

Though given the original Panther was the first true MBT as we know them today, I guess it is somewhat fitting.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Rheinmetall

The Panther is the first of its kind: Rheinmetall's radically new main battle tank concept drawing on some of the latest technologies.

www.rheinmetall-defence.com

It has a cute wittle drone launcher!



And if people think Panther is a problematic name... let me tell you that having a drone launcher reminds me of another legendary fourth generation main battle tank of (alternate) history.

THE CRUSADER!!!

To battle, to battle, the Saracen hordes
We follow the warrior king
Onward, ride onward, into the fight
We carry the sign of the cross
Warlords of America, Tanks of the Realm
Spilling their oil in the sand
Crusader, crusader, the legend is born
The future will honour your deeds
​

Ahem... sorry... got carried away there.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

I'm rather surprised they dared to call it a Panther, after how much Germany wants to distance itself from WW2.

The problem is that there's only so many cat names that are actually impressive -- they're simply not going to name an MBT after a small wildcat like a serval.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

MBT Gafield?

 

[Aaron Fox]

Well, the 130mm gun does in fact exist, it's what Rheinmetall has been pitching for several years as a next-gen tank gun. It's interesting because all previous practical work on the "next size" tank cannon was focused on 140mm, and then all of that ended up being back-burnered in favor of improved ammunition technology in 120mm. Those ammo improvements were cheaper in the short term, and would logically still pay off in the long term because their advantages could be carried forward to the ammunition for new calibers.

The 130mm was chosen because no one wants to make that jump to the 140mm. That's literally it. With ETC guns still quite a while away (we're talking decades here, at least without someone developing GURPS-grade capacitors/batteries out of their ass) from being available to be even thought of being fitted (here's the thing, ETC gun research had to basically start from the beginning, so to speak, due to a combination of what can be considered bad/confusing data and no one really funding such research for decades after the US military pulled out in the '90s) and the requirement of a decent load of ammunition, a 140mm isn't going to be chosen unless you really have to.

The 130mm is what it is: a compromise gun... a gun that is probably not going to work all that well, especially since China adopted the Western design (though, to be honest, they were far faster on the draw when it came to composite design than the Russians) and deployment philosophy of tank warfare with a slight Chinese flare.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

The 130mm is smaller and lighter, but still shares the same primary shortcoming as the 140mm, being big enough to require an autoloader system and not possible to refit onto existing tanks without at minimum a new turret. Rheinmetall claims a roughly 50% increase in performance over 120mm systems, but the competing French 140mm is reporting a performance increase of over 70%.

So it will be interesting to see which of those options wins out for the MGCS project.

 

[Aaron Fox]

The 130mm is smaller and lighter, but still shares the same primary shortcoming as the 140mm, being big enough to require an autoloader system and not possible to refit onto existing tanks without at minimum a new turret. Rheinmetall claims a roughly 50% increase in performance over 120mm systems, but the competing French 140mm is reporting a performance increase of over 70%.

So it will be interesting to see which of those options wins out for the MGCS project.

It should be noted that ammo size is also a major factor here. 140mm rounds are going to be stupidly huge even compared to 130mm rounds.

In addition, this looks like it's going for the export market primarily.

 

[Zachowon]

Which makes me wonder why is Germahy going to export it if it is supposed to be this big game changer.

 

[Bacle]

Which makes me wonder why is Germahy going to export it if it is supposed to be this big game changer.

Because now Finland and Sweden are looking to be in NATO.

 

[Aaron Fox]

Because now Finland and Sweden are looking to be in NATO.

Hit it on the head.

People like to look at the fancy new guns but people also forget that wars aren't just who has the best armaments, but also the best logistics and -increasingly- PR (and/or memetic and information warfare) department. The tail for a 140mm gun is going to be massive. Insanely so. Look at the tail of the 155mm howitzers, a 140mm gun is going to have a similar tail at the end of the day.