Star Wars Star Wars Discussion Thread - LET THE PAST D-! Oh, wait, nevermind

[Blasterbot]

I would argue that it is at least a bit that Revan is a video game character. specifically an MC in one. so a lot of people tend to think more in how they played Revan and are invested in that. there is a difference in how invested someone is in a character in a book or movie and how invested they are in a RPG character where they feel like their decisions matter for the story. the medium matters for the story and how it is received.

 

[Skallagrim]

The Republic realistically wouldn't have lasted if the Force was removed. It would have broken apart into a very large number of pocket empires that all have effective planet destroying weapons and as a consequence you are going to end up with basically eternal, incredibly bloody, war.

The Jedi were the people who ended up in the right place at the right time to be able to defuse all of the little catalysts that would spiral out of control if not interfered with.

The Force basically means plot shields and that the galaxy bends itself to ensure that you are in the right place to accomplish your goals (whatever they happen to be). For the Jedi their goals were generally the good of the Republic, for the Sith it's usually galactic conquest or whatever.

That's your fanon, as far as I can tell. And that's fine, but to my knowledge, nothing canonical supports it. Maybe in Disney canon, if something like that has been suggested in the High Republic stuff-- I wouldn't know about that. But in the original continuity, there was no suggestion of this being the case.

Huge galaxy, 10.000 Jedi, meaning they're a very small group... and yes, they did good stuff. Guided by the Force, they were doing good. And at the same time, the Sith were undermining everything, and starting conflicts and problems. Remove both, and what is left? Just human action. (Or in this case: sapient action.)

The Republic would, by all evidence, do just fine without the Jedi (provided the Sith are likewise gone). Remove the Force from the setting, and there's no reason (that we are ever shown) for the Republic to just crumble. It would have good times and bad times. There may be times that it falls apart, but by all evidence (in the old EU, at least) it just as reliably fell back together. And of course, while the heroic Jedi played a role in that most often... the depraved Sith typically were the ones to cause the problem in the first place.

This seems to support the potentium interpretation. The Force isn't keeping the Republic together. The Force just is. And you decide how to wield it. Sapients being (as we are shown) reliably fallible, the results tend to even out. Some good, some bad. Overall, it really seems like the hypothetical absence of the Force wouldn't make things better or worse. It would still just be a case of "people gonna people".

 

[Typhonis]

If there are only 10,000 Jedi and say 2 Baneite Sith, that's not a large population. Heck, that is not even a rounding error. The Republic looks o be large enough that you could loose planets due to rounding errors. So how do they keep things going?

Look at Coruscant. It has a population in the low Trillions. You barely have enough Jedi to police and mediate a city on that planet let alone a Galaxy.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

Going to go on full meta here, but let's be frank. The Galaxy will always need Jedi because Jedi merch sells specifically lightsabers. Heck I'll go as far as to say that Lightsabers are what make star wars star wars. You can definitely argue the jedi code and the nature of the force and all of that but if you took the force and Jedi out of Star Wars what you are left with is a generic sci-fi setting that is a mix of Halo and Firefly.

 

[LordDemiurge]

The Force isn't keeping the Republic together.

Ehh, I've never entirely been sure about how this holds up from a Doylist perspective.

My biggest issue with the SW, is that force sensitives(especially Jedi and Sith) are something of a narrative blackhole. As soon as one steps into the room or is inserted into a storyline, they automatically become the most important person in it.

Disney canon exasperates this given how they've more or less gutted the EU of all its extraneous elements, and have reduced the setting to being something of a theme park.

 

[Blasterbot]

Ehh, I've never entirely been sure about how this holds up from a Doylist perspective.

My biggest issue with the SW, is that force sensitives(especially Jedi and Sith) are something of a narrative blackhole. As soon as one steps into the room or is inserted into a storyline, they automatically become the most important person in it.

Disney canon exasperates this given how they've more or less gutted the EU of all its extraneous elements, and have reduced the setting to being something of a theme park.

sucks for them. they are closing down the park.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

sucks for them. they are closing down the park.

not the park, just the SW hotel.

 

[Skallagrim]

Ehh, I've never entirely been sure about how this holds up from a Doylist perspective.

My biggest issue with the SW, is that force sensitives(especially Jedi and Sith) are something of a narrative blackhole. As soon as one steps into the room or is inserted into a storyline, they automatically become the most important person in it.

Our perspective is skewed because the Jedi are SW's unique selling point, so almost everything relates to Jedi somehow. We hyper-focus on the stories that have Jedi in them. That doesn't discount the fact that well over 99% of the people in the galaxy will never even meet a Jedi, and live their whole lives without getting entangled in any Jedi business.


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Disney canon exasperates this given how they've more or less gutted the EU of all its extraneous elements, and have reduced the setting to being something of a theme park.

sucks for them. they are closing down the park.

Disney figured they could take a beloved story, strip it of everything that made it special, and turn it into a theme park franchise. It didn't work out. And in case of their stupid fake space hotel... they charged prices that I'll only pay if it's actually in space. Prices that most people can't pay. Ever. So, predictably, it went tits-up. Which is pretty much a microcosm of what they're doing to all of SW.

 

[Zyobot]

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

in case of their stupid fake space hotel... they charged prices that I'll only pay if it's actually in space. Prices that most people can't pay.

I don't think it's an issue with the hotel specifically. Most things in California are too expensive for normal people now. Amusement parks like Disneyland require tickets that cost hundreds of dollars per person per day (unless you're talking about really small ones like Castle Park), and that's not even getting into the costs of driving there or the hotel reservations or buying food. The experience tends to sour for families at meltdown hour (3 or 4 PM) when the kids start crying and parents start becoming aggravated trying to shut their kids up. They're in a chaotic, overstimulating environment and after a few hours, they can't handle it anymore. The parents spent hundreds to thousands of dollars to go to Disneyland and have the mindset of wanting to get as much out of their investment as possible, ie being efficient and going to the most rides, etc, but this doesn't account for the reality of how kids experience it. So when the kids start becoming exhausted, the parents start screaming at their kids "do you know how much money I spent on this trip to bring you here?" Also, it's really hot. There are lots of bands playing in California, but again too expensive. So ultimately the only thing to stay in California for is to drive down to the beach maybe once or twice a year, or maybe attend a local rodeo and then get bored.

EDIT: I've noticed that our location doesn't display anymore on threads.

 

[Bigking321]

I don't think it's an issue with the hotel specifically.

I believe they charged around 6000 dollars a night? I could be wrong but that's what I heard.

That's a bit more of a issue than California is expensive.

 

[Bacle]

Ray Stevenson, the guy who played Baylan, passed away suddenly a few days ago; he also play Gar Saxon in Clone Wars.

So teh Ahsoka show is going to be a little weird now, with this happening.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

I don't really follow Disney Star Wars, so meh from me.

 

[Skallagrim]

Ray Stevenson, the guy who played Baylan, passed away suddenly a few days ago; he also play Gar Saxon in Clone Wars.

So teh Ahsoka show is going to be a little weird now, with this happening.

That's really sad to hear. I don't care much about the upcoming series, but I loved Rome (Stevenson played Titus Pullo), and I'd have wished the man a long and healthy life. Although my expectations for the show aren't really high, I hope they gave him a cool part, at least, so his last role is a good one.


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I believe they charged around 6000 dollars a night? I could be wrong but that's what I heard.

For the regular rooms, it's 6000 for two nights. The cheaper room was still over 4000. But the rooms you saw in all the promos are actually the "Grand Captain's Suite", which is 15.000 for two nights. What they actually showed in ads is a 3-day weekend that'll cost you 5000 bucks a day-- beverages not even included!

And they thought this would be a smash hit or something?

 

[AspblastUSA]

That's really sad to hear. I don't care much about the upcoming series, but I loved Rome (Stevenson played Titus Pullo), and I'd have wished the man a long and healthy life. Although my expectations for the show aren't really high, I hope they gave him a cool part, at least, so his last role is a good one.

Oh fuck that's Pullo? Damn, here I was thinking it was news I could let pass me by because it's someone I'd never heard of.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

For the regular rooms, it's 6000 for two nights. The cheaper room was still over 4000.

I could go on an actual fucking Cunard cruise for that kind of money.

 

[Skallagrim]

Oh fuck that's Pullo? Damn, here I was thinking it was news I could let pass me by because it's someone I'd never heard of.

Yeah, it's really sad news. Like I said, no big hopes for the series, but his casting was actually a bit of good news.

I could go on an actual fucking Cunard cruise for that kind of money.

Yeah. Looking it up, you can get the theoretical equivalent of Disney's 4000-buck accomodation (which would suit two people) for about 1400 bucks (room also for two)... and that's a 4-night short cruise. The room looks much better, the food looks much better, and I have a vague suspicion that the on-board performance by the Royal Shakespeare Company is also going to beat whatever Disney puts up.

Of course, Disney is always exorbitantly priced, and people go for the experience. But to make this attractive, they'd need to make the rooms more luxurious, really bringing home the idea of a fancy cruise liner, but in space (rather than a bog standard sci-fi bunk). And even then, I think you could get away with charging around 1000 bucks a night for the regular room, 1500 from the bigger one, and maybe 3000 for the large suite (because it can also accomodate more guests).

Oh, and don't make it sequel-era themed. That's just... not a winning strategy. Disney seems to think people actually hate the prequels, but I'd bet anything that if you made a Star Wars cruise attraction as I outlined, and set it somewhere between TPM and AotC, using the Prequel-era aesthetics with their elegant '50s influences, people would be lining up for it. (If you want an interactive/immersive 'adventure', just have it be something of a spy/mystery thing, using the lead-up the Separatist crisis as the backdrop.)

 

[Typhonis]

Oh, and don't make it sequel-era themed. That's just... not a winning strategy. Disney seems to think people actually hate the sequels, but I'd bet anything that if you made a Star Wars cruise attraction as I outlined, and set it somewhere between TPM and AotC, using the Prequel-era aesthetics with their elegant '50s influences, people would be lining up for it. (If you want an interactive/immersive 'adventure', just have it be something of a spy/mystery thing, using the lead-up the Separatist crisis as the backdrop.)

Why not actually use a fucking cruise ship? Just have it be Prequal era themed and if people want to LARP arrange it to happen for added cost otherwise the kids can be entertained with 'Jedi' lessons. The adults can get some 'meditation in' Known as a Spa day. ETC ETC ETC.

This was Kennedy's baby. Iger didn't even give her a heads up it was being shut down. That right there should be a warning sign too her.

 

[Blasterbot]

Why not actually use a fucking cruise ship? Just have it be Prequal era themed and if people want to LARP arrange it to happen for added cost otherwise the kids can be entertained with 'Jedi' lessons. The adults can get some 'meditation in' Known as a Spa day. ETC ETC ETC.

This was Kennedy's baby. Iger didn't even give her a heads up it was being shut down. That right there should be a warning sign too her.

that was my reaction to it. have a space themed cruise ship. Disney already has how many? it would at least explain the kinda cramped conditions they had at the hotel that they ended up with since they tried to emulate that. set up some arcade with a bunch of flight sims and some game based on running point defense against a tie swarm. this shit is easy.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Why not actually use a fucking cruise ship? Just have it be Prequal era themed and if people want to LARP arrange it to happen for added cost otherwise the kids can be entertained with 'Jedi' lessons. The adults can get some 'meditation in' Known as a Spa day. ETC ETC ETC.

This was Kennedy's baby. Iger didn't even give her a heads up it was being shut down. That right there should be a warning sign too her.

I know right? It's unfathomable to me that they screwed up this badly and managed to make such a simple concept so hideously overpriced for so little productivity. They spent 1.2 billion dollars on the hotel, you could almost build an actual space station for that*.

Taking a look at actual cruise ships, it looks like the most expensive one in the world as of 2020 was 450 million... though a 600 million one was on the way. From the descriptions including things like marble floors and original Picassos on the walls, I have little doubt they could create Star Wars decor without increasing the price. So Disney could have two cruise ships in operation and have enough left over for a couple of tourism submarines, and some underwater decor to look like Theed or some such for the submarines to drive kids past for the cost of this hotel.

Except the cruise ships would handle 750 passengers each, 1,500 total, while the Galactic Starcruiser Hotel had 100 rooms total.

It's hard for me not to conclude somebody was on the take in this project embezzling funds, I just can't wrap my head around how they could have spent so much for so little.


*Hyperbole alert. Mir was about four billion.