Of course there is the fact that Vader knows quite abit about Satine and the fact she was Obi Wans lover… that alone might cause him to come over and burn shit. If Obi Wan comes out of hiding Yay, he’s succeeded in his goal, if Obi Wan is dead or stays hiding, he gets to kill his lover as payback.
Star Wars Star Wars Discussion Thread - LET THE PAST D-! Oh, wait, nevermind
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Skallagrim
Well-known member
Yeah, it does make considerably more sense if we assume that Obi-Wan doesn't realise that Anakin has survived for like nine years after Mustafar. And like I said: this wold have to be set in the Disney continuity. It makes no sense in the old EU. But as I also said: I only ever consider TCW in the context of the Disney timeline, since I never felt it properly fit in with the EU even back in the day.
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Yep, Clone Wars had a bunch of contradictions at odds with the EU. In retrospect, part of me wonders if, in a world where Disney never bought Star Wars, we would’ve still seen the EU more or less retconned by newer content, anyway (albeit, less suddenly and abruptly). It was already on that trajectory pre-Disney, I think, even if the final sale is what made it official IOTL.
Skallagrim
Well-known member
It was mostly that Lucas just didn't give a shit what any EU work had to say -- which was his prerogative, of course. But they tried to keep the EU consistent, so whenever he and/or Filoni made up something that contradicted existing stuff, that automatically required a retcon.
So in a way, I'm pretty glad Disney took over and kept TCW. It handily allows me to just port the whole Filoniverse over into their continuity, and happily enjoy a more selctive EU that doesn't include any of that. (An EU that also ends before Denning's bullshit gets going...)
No, because this ignores that one of the first people Anakin might look at for sheltering Obi-wan is Satine, if she is still alive.
Anakin barely interacted with Bail, and only really knew him as a friend of Padme's; Vader would have little reason to be suspicious of the Organa's and Leia, but he'd have plenty of reason to focus on Satine as a way to draw out Obi-wan.
Huh. What were the reasons for the Empire bombing Mandalore flat again?
Probably Bo-Katan and Mando's helping Erza and the Rebellion during the Rebels series.
Skallagrim
Well-known member
It's just been established that in Disney canon, Obi-Wan didn't know Anakin was alive until nine years after Mustafar. I have alluded directly to that, and used it in my reasoning. You referenced it as well, but you seem keen to just ignore it. Which I find strange, because you were also saying earlier that this Obi-Wan series is actually good and we shouldn't shit all over it.
So how is it reasonable to then object when I treat its established lore as fact?
Anyway, if Obi-Wan didn't know Anakin was still alive, the consideration you raise cannot possibly have factored into his decision-making process.
AspblastUSA
Well-known member
Even if you think that the Larses would be the first choice in all cases, it wouldn't be that hard to make it not work out. I mean think of what that scene at the end of RoTS looks like from Owen and Beru's perspective. A man you've never met with a core accent claiming to be the mentor of your stepbrother (whom you only met once, oh and who is apparently dead so he can't vouch for this man) shows up claiming that the baby he's got with him is your nephew, could you please take him in? If the Larses were even moderately distrustful sorts (not unreasonable, on a gang-run world like Tattooine) I could easily see them trying to shoo Kenobi off as a huckster trying some sort of scheme. Probably a wandering smuggler or something who ended up saddled with a kid from a careless fling, and is now trying to pass the boy off on the first gullible farmers he sees.
And that's not even taking the easy route of having him turn up to find the homestead abandoned or destroyed, because life's hard in the Rim.
And that's not even taking the easy route of having him turn up to find the homestead abandoned or destroyed, because life's hard in the Rim.
Yes, show established Obi-wan didn't know.
But the counterfactual at argument here is one where Satine survives, and Obi-wan tries to hide Luke with her.
And even if Obi-wan didn't know Vader was alive, he would know that going anywhere near Satine would only put her and Luke in danger with the Empire, regardless of knowing about Vader's survival.
So the logic of not going to Mandalore if Satine survives holds up regardless of the new canon info about Obi-wan and Vader.
Edit: This also sort of all ignores that Corkie is a thing, and there is already rumors Obi-wan is his father and Satine just never told him.
Skallagrim
Well-known member
You're changing your argument now. That's okay, but what we're left with is just your subjective interpretation of what Obi-Wan would or would not do. And I still disagree with your interpretation -- and I think your reasoning for it doesn't hold up.
If what you say is his attitude, then the best thing he could have done for Luke would be to move far away from Tatooine, only coming back years later to train Luke when he's ready. But that's not what he did. Even though his presence was a risk, it was a risk he was willing to take, because he was also equipped to help protect Luke if need be. That's a consideraion you leave out completely.
Furthermore, putting Luke with Satine would be equivalent to putting Leia with Bail (since Obi-Wan has zero reason to think that Palpatine suspects any close relation between Obi-Wan and Satine, so with Anakin supposedly dead, nobody is likely to look for him on Mandalore in specific). It's not more dangerous to Luke, and arguably it's safer than hell-hole Tatooine.
Going to Mandalore in the event of Satine's survival makes little sense if Anakin is still alive, but if Obi-Wan thinks Anakin is dead, it makes a lot of sense to go there. More sense than to go to Tatooine, to be sure.
Oh please, you know damn well that Kenobi wasn't going to abandon Luke and not keep tabs on him, and in case you forgot, Tatooine is still in Hutt Space, not under the Empire's direct control.
Mandalore very much was under the Empire's direct control, and even without Maul, they could not have stayed out of the Empire.
Also, you keep acting like Mandalore and Alderaan are the same sorts of places; they very much aren't and that is a big factor in what made it safe for Leia to go with Bail while it's be foolish to take Luke to Mandalore. Alderaan was a truly pacifist planet, a law abiding one, and one that didn't have any real connection to Kenobi at the level Mandalore does with Satine and Mandalore is a much more...troubled place than Alderaan, but harder to hide on than Tatooine.
Skallagrim
Well-known member
Your put-upon tone is not appreciated, particularly since you're engaging in blatant sophistry.
-- Obi-Wan wasn't going to abandon Luke and not keep tabs on him? No, obviously not. Nor did I say that he would -- only that if Luke's safety from Imperial agents was the great big priority (as you previously implied), it would have made sense for Obi-Wan (the well-known wanted fugitive, quite possible nr. 1 on the galactic 'most wanted' list) was as far away from Luke as possible. Since Obi-Wan kept close anyway, this indicates that Luke's safety in that regard wasn't the only consideration. (And that safety was your argument against going to Mandalore...)
-- Tatooine is still in Hutt Space? Yeah, Hutts, the well-known slavers, in control of the planet where Obi-Wan once encountered nine-year-old Anakin as a child slave. That's not the masterful argument for going to Tatooine that you seem to think it is.
-- Mandalore very much was under the Empire's direct control? Mandalorian Space enjoyed considerable sovereignty, and although Obi-Wan wouldn't necessarily have been certain, it turned out that the Empire actually did keep up the semi-autonmy of the "allied regions". (For much the same reasons that the Nazis didn't invade Switzerland.) In OTL, Mandalore got bombed because its ruler (Bo-Katan) proved actively resistant. Satine, a non-interventionist pacifist, would not have prompted that reaction. In that regard, Bail and Satine are very much alike: Palpatine views them as weak milquetoasts of little consequence. Being thought of that way provides a certain safety, for a time. It doesn't make you a prime target.
-- Kenobi has a connection to Mandalore? His feelings for Satine were, for obvious reasons, hidden. Anakin knew implicitly, but there's zero reason for Palpatine to know. And zero reason for Obi-Wan to think that Palpatine would know.
-- Mandalore is a more troubled place than Alderaan? Sure. But hardly a more troubled place than infamous "hive of scum and villainy" Tatooine!
-- Mandalore is harder to hide on than Tatooine? I see no reason why that should be the case. Death Watch certainly managed to hide itself all over the place. Repeatedly.
In short, your reasoning remains pretty flawed here. You may see these things differently, but it's just your interpretation, your "fanon", as it were. Not an interpretation that I share. I find it interesting that you act as if I'm unreasonable for not treating your fan interpreations as hard fact.
KilroywasNOTHere
"BEEP!"
I think people forget how much ESBs "I am your father twis"t retconed things from ANH and actually made some things not make any sense once you really thought about it
AspblastUSA
Well-known member
It does help that George, the EU authors, and the fans have had 42 years to work on smoothing out the various wrinkles it caused. Sure you can argue that it doesn't make things better (And in all fairness the idea that retcon plotholes are equally bad, patched later or not is a perfectly consistent view to have) compared to the couple of weeks the Kenobi show has had thus far.
Beyond that, I think the context very much matters. When ESB came out the sum total of Star Wars... institutional inertia, as it were, as a single movie three years ago. A wildly popular one, yes, but still just one movie. Furthermore the people making the changes were by-and-large the same people who wrote the work they were retconning. Like it or not, George going back to tinker in his own sandbox is more tolerable in the eyes of many.
Kenobi, on the other hand is up against a Star Wars that has been a pillar of both pop culture and nerd culture for nearly a half century, and doesn't really have any of the original folks involved on a creative level. While there's nothing in their contracts, and the current IP owner clearly doesn't care, for a lot of fans there's a certain level of respect for the original work that is implictly expected.
I have been stewing over this question for quite a while now so I will ask you guys. Did Lucas Film and I am pointing at Dave Filoni. Introduce the X Gene into Star Wars? The Bad Batch as you know are genetically altered Jango Fett Clones. But they well have Mutant Powers. Hunter can use a planet's electromagnetic field to sense things and has senses akin to Wolverine with a definite healing factor. The dude fell off a freaking mountain and got right up. We know from the Clone Wars such falls will kill a normal clone. Tech has Beast level genius intelligence. Crosshair has a scary level of accuracy and can plan out what seems to be impossible shots. Omega is a master strategist and can read people scarily well with very little clues. And Wrecker wrecker has strength that exceeds even Spidermans and is approaching Ben Grim level. And he also has a healing factor. He has taken several non stun blaster bolts and got right back up later. That would kill a normal clone. Echo well he is Reg that learned Resistance is Futile and is basically Star Wars version of a Borg. So what say you guys. Are the Bad Batch defacto Marvel Mutants in anything but name?
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Well, @Bear Ribs already posted that here, though I guess it bears repeating that I wish the Force's luck on whoever finds themselves in Vader's line of sight, once he finds out his children are dead.
Speaking of repeats, what do blaster laws look like in-universe? I imagine it varies greatly from world to world—Naboo and Mandalore during the Clone Wars regulated them heavily, I'm sure—but the Galaxy seems to have a pretty healthy blaster culture overall, though that observation could also be skewed by the lore's disproportionate focus on mercenaries, soldiers, frontiersmen, and other characters who regularly walk around armed.