Star Wars Star Wars Discussion Thread - LET THE PAST D-! Oh, wait, nevermind

Depends on what type of cloaking device. The hybridium version is new, and very flawed, as the crew are blinded by the cloak as much as the enemy is. Hence Thrawn needing a Dark Jedi to coordinate his cloaked forces, as they wouldn't be able to communicate much less fight otherwise.

Stygium or Adegan cloaks have been around for millennia, with the Sith Empire actually developing the latter around 3000 BBY. Of course, the problem is acquiring stygium, which is rare with known deposits mined out by the time of the Clone Wars, or Adegan crystals, as the biggest deposits are under Jedi control.
 
Depends on what type of cloaking device. The hybridium version is new, and very flawed, as the crew are blinded by the cloak as much as the enemy is. Hence Thrawn needing a Dark Jedi to coordinate his cloaked forces, as they wouldn't be able to communicate much less fight otherwise.

Stygium or Adegan cloaks have been around for millennia, with the Sith Empire actually developing the latter around 3000 BBY. Of course, the problem is acquiring stygium, which is rare with known deposits mined out by the time of the Clone Wars, or Adegan crystals, as the biggest deposits are under Jedi control.

Well, Sienar built their experimental one for Maul's Scimitar, at Palpatine's behest, so it's not a stretch to say that the Sith had access to cloaking technology. Even if it's very expensive (prohibitively so under normal circumstances) and only good for a one-off... isn't it worth the effort and the money, for a one-shot Jedi-extinction-initiator-machine? :cool:
 
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Then just grab the popcorn, put on your sunglasses, and at the appointed time, watch the Jedi Temple suddenly just explode in a fiery conflagration, as it is hit by a giant invisible rock moving at ludicrous speeds. (Pro tip: do this shortly before the Clone Wars are set to start, per your plan. Blame the CIS for everything, and thereby legitimise PATRIOT Act-esque security measures. Never waste a good crisis. Especially not one that you've engineered yourself.)
My attack on the temple is two fold, given what we know of the Jedi. Destroying the temple destroys something more important than just Jedi, you are wiping out the Jedi holocrons, the Jedi archives, the Jedi support network and the future of the jedi. Whatever younglings and such are in the temple. This is to destroy the Jedi future and knock them off balance so later strokes can be far more lethal.

There is only the temple on Coruscant. I haven't heard of any other Jedi enclaves in the prequal era.

The perfect time then would be when Anakin is on Naboo flirting with Padme, and Obi Wan is on Kamino before going to Geonosis.
 
Plot-wise, the biggest problem here is that you remove the singular Act that completed Anakin's fall to the dark side.

In fact, this may even cause Anakin to Not fall.
 
Plot-wise, the biggest problem here is that you remove the singular Act that completed Anakin's fall to the dark side.

In fact, this may even cause Anakin to Not fall.

Yeah, this would completely undo any gains the Sith make by showing Anakin their true colors. For all the faults of the Jedi Order, in this scenario, they'd be infinitely more tolerable for Anakin.

Anakin sticking to being a Jedi and potentially gaining full mastery of his powers is a complete disaster for the Sith. The man is a living god, in fact, he's so powerful he can't meditate properly at all. Seriously, it's not that he's impatient or undisciplined*, but when he meditates and taps into his connection with the Force...

...Anakin outright describes it as like looking into a supernova. Something reinforced by the events on Mortis, with Anakin's brief tapping into his full potential allowing to simultaneously subdue the literal embodiments of the Light and the Dark.

Of course, you could say the Sith should just make sure never to engage Anakin directly or at least without setting up beforehand...except Anakin is also one of the best field commanders the Jedi has. Enough that despite Tarkin's general disdain for the Jedi, he quickly and genuinely learned to respect Anakin once the latter proved his command ability. Sure, he's heavily offense-oriented, and likes to take risks, but he gets things done and has the love and respect of his troops**. Put him in with the Rebel Alliance, and he can make life so very difficult for the Sith they may have no choice to face him directly.

I really, really doubt any Inquisitor would last very long against Anakin. That, or they turn into Saturday morning cartoon villains/Team Rocket expies, only thanks to Anakin not particularly inclined to kill them because of how pathetic they are. You'd need a full-fledged Sith Lord to have a shot against him, and the more experience he gets, the wiser he grows, and the more comfortable he is with his powers, the smaller their chances become. Past a certain point, I suspect Anakin could face Darth Sidious, and potentially simply snuff out the latter's power and force him to his knees with a simple gesture, much like he did to the Avatar of Darkness on Mortis.

*Anakin is impatient and undisciplined, but that's only in the general scheme of things. He's patient and disciplined enough to have a level of lightsaber skill that's comparable to High Councilors despite only being a Knight. In fact, AFAIK when it comes to lightsaber skill, he's one of three people capable of not losing to Darth Sidious, something only Windu and Yoda are capable of.

And in another hit or miss case for Disney Star Wars, Rebels actually reinforces this with that training hologram of Anakin teaching Form IV lightsaber techniques. How, you ask? Form IV is weak against blasters and/or multiple opponents...except Anakin's variant of Form IV was able to make up for those deficiencies, something (Legends) Yoda explicitly mentions only a full-fledged master of Form IV is capable of.

Anakin/Darth Vader only lost to Kenobi on Mustafar thanks to being unused to the Dark Side of the Force, causing him to become even more reckless than usual. As shown by his record in following decades (at least in Legends), Darth Vader was able to compensate for his crippled state, and by the time he met Kenobi again, simply overwhelmed him.

**Hell, he kept this even as Darth Vader. The officers might fear and tread lightly around him, but the rank-and-file just loved Darth Vader, as his willingness to fight on the front lines proved his high standards weren't just him being a martinet. His high standards were all based on actual experience, and his willingness to risk his life next to the boys in the trenches meant they didn't mind chasing after those high standards. That, and Darth Vader typically held officers, not the men under their command, responsible for any failures.
 
Thing is, Palpatine kinda wanted to steal those. Orbital bombardment removes that option.
Yeah, he wanted the Jedi's knowledge. He was a bit of a hoarder too, even in Disney Wars.

The thing about the Jedi and Sith? They've both been around for so long, and have been in so much of the Galaxy (areas become known then "lost"/unknown, then known again, then lost again, as an example), that they've left shit everywhere -- ruins, temples, nexuses, holocrons, spirits as key examples, that all it takes is for one Force sensitive to unwittingly wander into or come across some of these, and bam, a "new" Jedi or Sith.

The cycle repeats, and each order reincarnate ike phoenixes.

And even if they don't call themselves Jedi or Sith or are considered heretical by preceding/following orders? They typically use their teachings anyway to an extent (even in Disney Wars' canon, with the Simps of Ren), so they're Jedi and Sith in all but name.

We see a divergence of a sort from this in Disney Wars' canon, on Jedda, with all the different, Force-based "religions", and we saw a few in the EU, but it's mostly always been the Jedi and Sith in some form or another.

Blowing up the Jedi Temple like that just removes the quickest, most obvious route for a new Jedi Order to arise, but it'd happen eventually (as we saw with Luke in Disney Wars and the EU), as it did with the SIth (Luminaya's modified Banite Order, the One Sith, the various cults, Sith Eternal, et cetera).
 
A hot take, I know, but does anyone else find Vader’s execution of Captain Needa a tad unwarranted? I mean it was a genuine mistake made by a line officer who was out of his depth chasing a lone smuggling freighter, who then took full responsibility for his failure.

Going off some characterisations of Darth Vader, Needa really should have been let off the hook there.
 
A hot take, I know, but does anyone else find Vader’s execution of Captain Needa a tad unwarranted? I mean it was a genuine mistake made by a line officer who was out of his depth chasing a lone smuggling freighter, who then took full responsibility for his failure.

Going off some characterisations of Darth Vader, Needa really should have been let off the hook there.

All other characterisations of Vader get him wrong. Vader is a ruthless murder-machine who chokes people to death at the slightest provocation (and does this with icy calmness, and no sign of temper). We see this in ANH when he deals with Motti, and we see it in ESB when he kills Ozzel, and later, Needa. He even delivers dry quips when he's doing it. ("I find you lack of faith disturbing"; starting his address with "Captain Piett" and ending with with "Admiral Piett", having just murdered Admiral Ozzel; "Apology accepted, Captain Needa".)

In short: yes, it's excessive, but it's 100% in-character for Vader, as we see him in the OT. He doesn't care whether Motti might have a point, or whether murdering admirals on a whim is good policy, or whether Captain Needa actually did very well under the circumstances-- something displeased him, and his response is murder.
 
All other characterisations of Vader get him wrong. Vader is a ruthless murder-machine who chokes people to death at the slightest provocation (and does this with icy calmness, and no sign of temper). We see this in ANH when he deals with Motti, and we see it in ESB when he kills Ozzel, and later, Needa. He even delivers dry quips when he's doing it. ("I find you lack of faith disturbing"; starting his address with "Captain Piett" and ending with with "Admiral Piett", having just murdered Admiral Ozzel; "Apology accepted, Captain Needa".)

In short: yes, it's excessive, but it's 100% in-character for Vader, as we see him in the OT. He doesn't care whether Motti might have a point, or whether murdering admirals on a whim is good policy, or whether Captain Needa actually did very well under the circumstances-- something displeased him, and his response is murder.
Don't forget his sarcastic remark in Rogue One:
 
Part of the reason that film is well-received by many fans (unlike the other Disney-era films, which tend to be divisive) is that it gets Vader right.
That hallway scene at the end was amazing. If they could do Vader: A Star Wars Story with Vader here? I'd be fucking sold.

Then again, they had their chance with Kenobi, and... well...
 
A hot take, I know, but does anyone else find Vader’s execution of Captain Needa a tad unwarranted? I mean it was a genuine mistake made by a line officer who was out of his depth chasing a lone smuggling freighter, who then took full responsibility for his failure.

Going off some characterisations of Darth Vader, Needa really should have been let off the hook there.
No. Vader has a soft spot for his personal line troops and a broad tolerance for general competence, but he is absolutely selfish, callous, and ruthless 99% of the time. Combine that with his general distaste for the Empire's political class, of which officers are absolutely a part, and he'll take any relevant excuse to choke a bitch just for the catharsis.

Vader broke under his conversion to the dark side and is a brutal and nihilistic hatchet man for the Emperor. To the point that even the Emperor considered him a failed project. We get to see bits and pieces of Anakin from time to time, but those moments are exceptions that prove the rule. Vader is never going to give anyone around him, even those he likes, the space for mistakes or learning. You're either useful to him or you're an obstacle that needs to be removed. There's a reason Obi-Wan said that Vader killed Anakin and it wasn't just to be deliberately obtuse to Luke. Vader is a literal evil twin of Anakin, reveling in being the exact opposite of what Anakin was.
 
No. Vader has a soft spot for his personal line troops and a broad tolerance for general competence, but he is absolutely selfish, callous, and ruthless 99% of the time. Combine that with his general distaste for the Empire's political class, of which officers are absolutely a part, and he'll take any relevant excuse to choke a bitch just for the catharsis.

Vader broke under his conversion to the dark side and is a brutal and nihilistic hatchet man for the Emperor. To the point that even the Emperor considered him a failed project. We get to see bits and pieces of Anakin from time to time, but those moments are exceptions that prove the rule. Vader is never going to give anyone around him, even those he likes, the space for mistakes or learning. You're either useful to him or you're an obstacle that needs to be removed. There's a reason Obi-Wan said that Vader killed Anakin and it wasn't just to be deliberately obtuse to Luke. Vader is a literal evil twin of Anakin, reveling in being the exact opposite of what Anakin was.
Sidious had high hopes for Vader, but the moment he was barbequed and then shoved into an obsolete suit, he was either looking for Vader's replacement (notably with Luke, a few other times in Legends and canon, too) or ways for Vader to regain his strength (under his control, of course).

I think, by the end of it, he was just wanted Vader replaced as he was too much of a wreck (in every way possible), which is why he wanted Luke: Any thoughts he had at restoring Vader were basically dead by RotJ.
 
Take it up with George Lucas he said it. You may not like it but he is the creator and final word in lore imho.
Unfortunately for Lucas, like Cameron with the Terminator and Scott with Alien, their word as the original creators means nothing now because of other creatives' (companies or people) ownerships and additions to the canon.

Most of what Cameron did in Aliens, for example, was antithetical to what Scott intended in the original Alien; making the aliens an insect-like species of parasitic monsters, for example, while Scott envisioned them as either biological weapons or as a "perfect, enlightened species", and this particular xenomorph ("Kane's Son") was "young, confused, and without guidance", hence its violent nature (yeah, you can't swallow that bullshit either).

And what Cameron established has become the basic lore for the entire franchise for over forty years now, not Scott's original designs/intentions.

Ironically, this happened to Cameron himself with everything post-Terminator 2, even including his own crappy additions with Dark Fate.

Lucas basically lost control in the 90's onwards on these matters when all the EU stuff was coming out, and especially as the Sith and Jedi were being fleshed out and became something completely different to what he intended for each of them. He pulled back some control with the Prequels, but the genie was out of the bottle by that point and all the lore he added with those films basically became new resource piles for the EU and its developers to exploit.

He became irrelevant in lore matters long before Disney sucked Star Wars in to their shit factories.

Another example? The original developers of Command and Conquer had far, far different plans for tiberium, the Forgotten, GDI, Nod, Scrin, and Kane in their drafts and lore (yeah, the Forgotten were going to be able to use tiberium to be X-Men expies, apparently); love it or hate it, and I mostly hate it, EA's C&C3 and everything afterward went in a completely different direction.

As much as I hate it, EA's stuff is canon; the OG creators' stuff no longer applies.
 
Unfortunately for Lucas, like Cameron with the Terminator and Scott with Alien, their word as the original creators means nothing now because of other creatives' (companies or people) ownerships and additions to the canon.

Most of what Cameron did in Aliens, for example, was antithetical to what Scott intended in the original Alien; making the aliens an insect-like species of parasitic monsters, for example, while Scott envisioned them as either biological weapons or as a "perfect, enlightened species", and this particular xenomorph ("Kane's Son") was "young, confused, and without guidance", hence its violent nature (yeah, you can't swallow that bullshit either).

Off topic here, but what drugs was Scott on?!

Or is this some bullshit he pulled out later to try and make the story seem more intricate and deep then it was?
 
Off topic here, but what drugs was Scott on?!

Or is this some bullshit he pulled out later to try and make the story seem more intricate and deep then it was?
No fucking idea: I think the whole "enlightened species" thing came from post-Alien and pre-Aliens interviews? Or it may have been when he started to become more senile, I dunno.

He also said it was dying at the end of Alien (it was "winding down" in the shuttle, hence its initial disinterest in Ripley, and why the "Eggforming" scene was in the film -- it had secured the next generation, so it could die), so... pretty shitty "enlightened species" if its lifespan is measured in a few days, but it does fit in with his "biological weapon" comments.

shrug?
 
Looks like they controlled more than just Dathomir at some point
I quite liked the Nightsisters back in the Clone Wars, Dathomir had a fun vibe of being so unapologetically spooky that it loops back into being somewhat serious. So I'm gland they're not completely gone from the lore.

Though I'm pretty sure they lost they completely lost the plot with Talzin being Maul's mother. It retroactively renders all her actions before completely meaningless, and tells us nothing as to why she provoked the Separatists into razing the Nightsisters.
 

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