What If? Star Trek Federation is transported into the 40k galaxy

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder
The issue is, we have newer Canon thay retcons such things without straight up saying it doesn't happen.
I dont own every book and the only pwrson i ever relied on for qoutes isnt on this site so it will take going through Lexicanum to find more.

Thiugh most sources seem to not include anything prior to 6th edition

I mean more in the fact that they are nit actually the Squats of old. Basically they are but arnt.

@S'task they elected Not-Stacy Abrams as president
That was not the Federation. That was the Earth Government that left the Federation elected her.
 

Sailor.X

Cold War Veteran
Founder
She was still elected was she not?
I am confused by that timeline
Humans in that time period are freaking weird. As writer contrived sort of weird. Just look at some Youtube videos on how 32nd Century Earth is portrayed and you will see how the writers screwed the pooch.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
I do want to clarify this is not a VS but how they would do in the 40k universe.

We don't need tonfocus on individual factions but base it on the overall capabilities. Give scenarios to what things 40k factions can do.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
If you come up with something I'll try to look at it fairly. I'm perfectly willing to say many things are retconned, however note that the hybrid thing is entirely a divergence from the real issue (That things like the Interex exist at all, which Agent disagrees with apparently entirely because he doesn't like them, not because they've been retconned).


Holy cow, are we sure @Agent23 isn't actually a bot that just scraped StarDestroyer.Net for talking points?

But no, the Federation isn't "Real Socialism." One of the key conceits of socialism is that once everybody's on board, the government and the party itself will simply wither away and leave only the Proletariat in charge of everything, which clearly isn't happening or ever suggested by the Federation. They have no dislike for the Bourgeoisie, have a healthy love of private ownership (ranging from private starships to private restaurants to any number of privately owned museums and goods from musical instruments to old cars to historical relics). Granted there's some mixed economy, I have little doubt the Enterprise is owned by the State but I'm reasonably sure the US's aircraft carriers are the same and that doesn't make it a communist nation.

The Federation is Post-Scarcity. They do have a number of goods that are still scarce and valuable, but these all appear to be strategic resources. Nobody tries to make money selling hotdogs because any Joe can walk up to a replicator and it will digitally create a hotdog for him. The basic needs of food, shelter, and clothing can be provided to every citizen so cheaply and easily that nobody has to work a 9-5 job to avoid starving to death. When Picard says they work to improve themselves, he means nobody has any reason to slave away just to make the number in their bank account go up, you do a job because you enjoy it, want to feel useful, or want to test your skills. His disdain for capitalism is the same feeling any of us would have to discover a guy spending twelve hours a day feverishly playing Cookie Clicker in hopes of generating even more imaginary cookies and making the number of cookies go up, instead of exercising, socializing, practicing, or basically doing something useful with their life.


Why don't you show us some proof of this claim? That doesn't jive at all with what I recall.
:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

Yeah, sure, that is why they were always indifferent about money and why we never saw any larger commercial entity in the entire series.

You sound like one of those rabbid trickies defending the Feds, who are incompetent surrender monkeys.

If you know of the Imperium relinquishing territory while it was winning and there were no realistic bigger threats to force them to retreat, then by all means, give us a list.

I do want to clarify this is not a VS but how they would do in the 40k universe.

We don't need tonfocus on individual factions but base it on the overall capabilities. Give scenarios to what things 40k factions can do.

They get invaded by every surrounding power, corrupted by Chaos, beset by Orks and Tyranids and reduced to near nothing within a few years.
 
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Bear Ribs

Well-known member
:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

Yeah, sure, that is why they were always indifferent about money and why we never saw any larger commercial entity in the entire series.
Bullshit.

In the first episode ever, Christopher Pike muses on how well he'd do if he left Starfleet and became a businessman on Regulus.

A 100,000 Credit bounty is placed on Harry Mudd's head, by the Federation.

Picard negotiates for access to a wormhole, offering 1.5 million Federation Credits down and another 100,000 Credits a year.

Uhura is offered a Tribble to buy for 10 credits.

You sound like one of those rabbid trickies defending the Feds, who are incompetent surrender monkeys.

If you know of the Imperium relinquishing territory while it was winning and there were no realistic bigger threats to force them to retreat, then by all means, give us a list.
I notice, as usual, you didn't supply any proof when asked. At this point, I have to wonder if you've ever actually seen any Star Trek because it looks very much like you only know Star Trek memes from SB and SD vs. debates.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
Alright can we stop arguing about what kind of political entity it is and focus on the threqd?
Sure. So getting to the polities in general, my thoughts are:

As I posited, I think the Federation will do very well against chaos as they simply have the right mindset to fight it and are accustomed to dealing with extradimensional invaders and shutting them down. I do not see chaos cults making much headway given the Federation lacks most of the things the Imperium has that promote chaos, and the Federation is going to be both very interested and very good at analyzing the myriad things that shut down the Warp and seeing if they can't replicate it across their space.

I see Orks as the biggest threat. The Federation is going to try to negotiate with them in good faith before realizing Orks are genetically incapable of peace and that's going to bite them in the ass hard. It's possible the Federation can indeed whip up some technobabble solution to the spores but I find it somewhat unlikely and once infested, it's really hard to remove Orks, and the Federation is really just crap at dealing with strong in-your-face brutal infantry attacks.

The Eldar and Dark Eldar are going to go as the Orks, but not as effectively because they're not going to be able to infest a world forever. In both cases I think the Federation will try to take precautions against possible betrayal, and since the Eldar don't infest a planet with spores they'll have slightly better odds of recovering. However ST ground forces and not up to par and the Eldar are going to do tremendous damage in their inevitable sneak attack, though I doubt they'll be able to wipe the Federation out.

The Tau will likely be overjoyed to see somebody actually accepting their overtures of peace for the first time. Depending on how easily the Tau and the Federation can reinforce each other (I'm not familiar enough with Tau travel times to know if they're likely to encounter each other in a timely fashion) they might try to form an allied block, possibly something like the Federation and Klingons have going on in DS9. This is probably the best hope they have but it relies on a lot of dominoes falling in the right positions initially.

I'll note that as of Star Trek: Prodigy they have ships capable of jumping 4000 lightyears in a few seconds. This gives them an immense speed advantage and a lot of tactical flexibility compared to everybody else. Sadly they're likely not to be open to tech-sharing.

The Tyranids are a threat but also exactly the kind of threat the Federation is good at shutting down. The Federation loves enemies that have single-lynchpin members that they can hit and disable an entire swarm. Due to how slowly Tyranids travel, the Federation is likely to find out about them well before they encounter them on-planet and will want to destroy them in space, I'd expect heavy use of cloaked planet-killer weapons such as Tricobalt devices to take out a swarm's Norn Queens in an ambush when it's still months away from hitting their worlds, effectively neutering it well ahead of time and then picking off more chunks of the swarm over a long period of high-speed space-guerilla-warfare. On the ground they'll fare really, really poorly due to Federation Infantry not being exactly the pinnacle of skill, though I'd expect a lot of attempts at taking out the Synapse Creatures at range in hopes of breaking up the swarm into easily-defeated disorganized individuals.

The real kicker of course, is the Imperium.

"We meet the right sort, this will work. We get some... buckaroo-" Captain Ramius, The Hunt for Red October

The trouble is the Imperium has too many variables in who they might meet first. If their first encounter is a more rabid stereotypical commissar/tech-priest who wants to immediately burn down anything different things will go really badly. However, the view that the Imperium are mindless savages that immediately open fire on anybody that doesn't perfectly fit their worldview is as much a baseless stereotype as Agent23's characterization of the Federation.

If they meet a more reasonable type they might be able to open negotiations for a time, though the Imperium is always going to be working towards trying to absorb the Federation, even for the Imperium thousands of planets with trillions of humans and abhumans with advanced technology are a real prize. Most Imperium officials will want to take as much of that intact as they can, it's a matter of how much damage they're willing to do to get it faster. They're going to really, really want FTL that's faster than theirs, doesn't risk accidentally taking a thousand years to jump, and doesn't interact with the Immaterium. Federation ground weapons aren't going to impress but stuff like the Replicators are probably going to.

On the Federation side Space Marines are likely to twig their "Augments, Evil Yucky Bad" reflex and will hurt negotiations with the Imperium from their end.
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
@Zachowon

Does the Federation's tech work in the 40K'verse?
-Does the presence of the Warp FUBAR ST warp engines or their subspace scanners? I'm assuming that subspace scanners would be drastically affected by the Warp.

I'm not assuming that all the toys ST gets to play with will be as efficient or even operable in their new environment. Am I assuming wrongly for the purposes of this discussion?
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
Bullshit.

In the first episode ever, Christopher Pike muses on how well he'd do if he left Starfleet and became a businessman on Regulus.

A 100,000 Credit bounty is placed on Harry Mudd's head, by the Federation.

Picard negotiates for access to a wormhole, offering 1.5 million Federation Credits down and another 100,000 Credits a year.

Uhura is offered a Tribble to buy for 10 credits.

I notice, as usual, you didn't supply any proof when asked. At this point, I have to wonder if you've ever actually seen any Star Trek because it looks very much like you only know Star Trek memes from SB and SD vs. debates.
Lol, examples from TOS, even though it is 100 years in the past compared to the current state of the Trek timeline.

Good one, that is like claiming that the USSR under Brezhnev was capitalist because Tsarist Russia in the 1870s was.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
Lol, examples from TOS, even though it is 100 years in the past compared to the current state of the Trek timeline.

Good one, that is like claiming that the USSR under Brezhnev was capitalist because Tsarist Russia in the 1870s was.
As usual, you can't actually argue the facts and ignore it instead.

Broht & Forrester are in TNG and VOY, where a case of copyright infringement and their trying to profit on it are central to the plot.
Picard is obviously from TNG
The Bank of Bolias is from DS9.
The price on Mudd's head is from TAS.

I actually presented big businesses across a huge range of shows in different centuries. Gonna retract your BS statement or just keep ignoring evidence you can't refute?

Edit: It's worth noting we see branded merchandise among those options as well, Broht & Forrester produces Tony the Targ bra ended merchandise and we see Flotter toy tie-ins to the Adventures of Flotter holodeck programs.
 

S'task

Renegade Philosopher
Administrator
Staff Member
Founder
Another question for the Federation @Zachowon

Will the Federation citizens experience spontaneous awakening of Psykers? I mean, it feels like that would be pretty much guaranteed to happen.
Not a new problem for the Federation... though on a larger scale (see TOS: "Where No Man Has Gone Before" and "Charlie X"... also in Trek few rare humans are psychically active just as a norm, see "Is there no Truth in Beauty"). Add in multiple inherently psychic races in the Federation as standard (Vulcans, Betazoids, Medusans, etc.) and while they will certainly have some issues with it, it's a problem they actually have some solid grounding to handle with multiple psychic traditions to draw on to help them learn discipline and control. Vulcan traditions would be especially suited to preventing Chaos corruption while enabling psykers to learn to control their powers.
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
Not a new problem for the Federation... though on a larger scale (see TOS: "Where No Man Has Gone Before" and "Charlie X"... also in Trek few rare humans are psychically active just as a norm, see "Is there no Truth in Beauty"). Add in multiple inherently psychic races in the Federation as standard (Vulcans, Betazoids, Medusans, etc.) and while they will certainly have some issues with it, it's a problem they actually have some solid grounding to handle with multiple psychic traditions to draw on to help them learn discipline and control. Vulcan traditions would be especially suited to preventing Chaos corruption while enabling psykers to learn to control their powers.
I think the issue for Feds will be that when it goes wrong for the Vulcans, and it will, they will pop off even worse than the other psykers just because they've got all that bottled emotion for Chaos to play with.

The other point is that a pyker suffering the perils of the Warp may just open a breach to the immaterium and let a host of Chaos to come swarming out.

Just another outlet for things to go wrong for the Feds. They'll find some solutions, assuming they survive, though it will likely push them closer to the same solutions as the IoM.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Not a new problem for the Federation... though on a larger scale (see TOS: "Where No Man Has Gone Before" and "Charlie X"... also in Trek few rare humans are psychically active just as a norm, see "Is there no Truth in Beauty"). Add in multiple inherently psychic races in the Federation as standard (Vulcans, Betazoids, Medusans, etc.) and while they will certainly have some issues with it, it's a problem they actually have some solid grounding to handle with multiple psychic traditions to draw on to help them learn discipline and control. Vulcan traditions would be especially suited to preventing Chaos corruption while enabling psykers to learn to control their powers.
The psykers in 40k wirk differently then that of ST though.
Mainly of which the Warp is the key connection here. Even the most disciplined of Pyskers, Ala Librarians or even Grey Knights have to be careful as to not intice the perils of the Warp upon using their powers.
As well as the fact it is how Choas can use untrained and freshly awakened psykers as a way into tje real world.

Which would be the biggest problem for Federation should that happen.
Once a rift opens it is often impossible to close. Often not always so they can be closed woth enough force.

@The Whispering Monk i will say the Warp would affect the sensors of Trek, at least t first due to the nature of it.

And yes a psyker awakening would most likely happen due to the nature of the universe itself.

It would not be large scale but could present issues with it.

I am debating making it so Trek psychics before the bringing in would be affected or not by Warp.

@Bear Ribs I think the Choas Gods most likely to affect Federation would be that of the Tzeentch and Slannesh.
Due to the nature of thier society.
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
@Zachowon
I honestly see them losing the subspace sensors completely b/c the Warp is not something consistent or predictable. This would mean several things:
-loss of FTL communication
-loss of FTL sensors
-still likely able to FTL travel, but will be much more dangerous as they won't be able to 'see' where they are going to even where they are...very similar to 40K Warp travel without the Golden Throne lighting the way.

The repercussions of this are HUGE for the Feds. It eliminates their god-sensors, and their ability to communicate at a whim pretty much anywhere they are.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
@Bear Ribs I think the Choas Gods most likely to affect Federation would be that of the Tzeentch and Slannesh.
Due to the nature of thier society.
I agree on Tzeentch but I think Nurgle will get a better foothold than Slaanesh.

Khorne is getting nowhere of course, the Federation eschews everything he represents.

The Federation also has significant defenses against Slaanesh. When he shows signs of Holodeck addiction we see Barclay shunned and great social pressure put on him not to succumb to his desire for more entertainment, and what he was doing was pretty mild. The Federation in general, despite having widely available Holodecks, rarely uses such technology for anything as base as porn and puts way more emphasis on edutainment, training, and simulations.

OTOH the Federation would readily get behind revering all life and while their default wouldn't be to appreciate Nurgle's plagues, something as simple as a sentient virus that needs human hosts to survive and reproduce itself, and asks to join the Federation as a member would put the Federation in a terrible moral quandary and give him a great in to their society. Of course, if he didn't lead with a plague at all but instead with "I love all living things" and went from there it might be even easier.


If Treknology doesn't work the way it does on the show but instead the Warp changes how their stuff works that pretty much throws everything out the window, there's no way to rationally debate what their tech can and can't do if it doesn't work as in canon so that changes a lot.
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
If Treknology doesn't work the way it does on the show but instead the Warp changes how their stuff works that pretty much throws everything out the window, there's no way to rationally debate what their tech can and can't do if it doesn't work as in canon so that changes a lot.
Which is why I asked. Because NO ONE in 40K has FTL sensors except the finicky warp prescience. And sensors are capable, but nothing like Trek's god-eye level sensors.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
@Zachowon
I honestly see them losing the subspace sensors completely b/c the Warp is not something consistent or predictable. This would mean several things:
-loss of FTL communication
-loss of FTL sensors
-still likely able to FTL travel, but will be much more dangerous as they won't be able to 'see' where they are going to even where they are...very similar to 40K Warp travel without the Golden Throne lighting the way.

The repercussions of this are HUGE for the Feds. It eliminates their god-sensors, and their ability to communicate at a whim pretty much anywhere they are.
I agree on Tzeentch but I think Nurgle will get a better foothold than Slaanesh.

Khorne is getting nowhere of course, the Federation eschews everything he represents.

The Federation also has significant defenses against Slaanesh. When he shows signs of Holodeck addiction we see Barclay shunned and great social pressure put on him not to succumb to his desire for more entertainment, and what he was doing was pretty mild. The Federation in general, despite having widely available Holodecks, rarely uses such technology for anything as base as porn and puts way more emphasis on edutainment, training, and simulations.

OTOH the Federation would readily get behind revering all life and while their default wouldn't be to appreciate Nurgle's plagues, something as simple as a sentient virus that needs human hosts to survive and reproduce itself, and asks to join the Federation as a member would put the Federation in a terrible moral quandary and give him a great in to their society. Of course, if he didn't lead with a plague at all but instead with "I love all living things" and went from there it might be even easier.


If Treknology doesn't work the way it does on the show but instead the Warp changes how their stuff works that pretty much throws everything out the window, there's no way to rationally debate what their tech can and can't do if it doesn't work as in canon so that changes a lot.
Okay let me clarify on Trek tech.
Thier sensors should be affected by the Warp when near a Warp storm, near a Warp portal, or near the rifts in space.

Besides that they should work fine until they get near there. Based off what we know of how the Warp works.


And I mean Nurgle wouldn't be the first to do something so casual and would probably find a way to infect them. That's nice.


This is the sorts stuff I would like to see.

Do you think they will expand?
 

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