What If? Star Trek Federation is transported into the 40k galaxy

[The Whispering Monk]

@Zachowon
have you stated what era of ST gets ported to the Grimdark?

 

[Zachowon]

OK, so, it's kinda complicated?

Was there a point of intervention by super powerful beings in the Federation's favor? Yes. However, in some respects that can be argued as those aliens balancing the scales since the only reason the war could even take place was because those same aliens had built a wormhole connecting Federation frontier space in the Alpha Quadrant to the Dominion frontier space in the Gamma Quadrant. In other words, they were both enabled the war to happen in the first place and stepped on the scale ONCE, after a lot of convincing, and while it was a critical moment, it was the only time they did so.

For the uniformed, in Star Trek the Milky Way Galaxy is divided into four quadrants. The Federation straddles the Alpha and Beta Quadrants, with Sol being the dividing point. The Klingons and Romulan Empires are both in the Beta Quadrant while the Cardassians and Bajor were in the Alpha Quadrant. The Dominion was in the Gamma Quadrant, thousands and thousands of lightyears on the opposite side of the galaxy from the Federation and the only reason either side could even begin to contact each other was due to the Bajoran Wormhole, which connected the Alpha Quadrant to the Gamma Quadrant. This wormhole was not a naturally occurring one, but rather, an artificial one constructed by the mysterious "Prophets" a-temporal energy beings who lived in the wormhole but were "Of Bajor". Thus, the only reason the Dominion and Federation came into conflict was due to the wormhole and once, after considerable cajoling by Sisko, the Wormhole Aliens disappeared a Dominion Fleet that was about to attack Deep Space Nine, though in the long run all it did was buy the Federation a little more time. The vast bulk of the war was fought conventionally without any other interventions.

As to the scale of the conflict. The Dominion War is very much Star Trek's equivalent of World War 2. Most folks talk about it as Dominion vs Federation, but that's due to those being the leading factions on either side. The actual faction breakdown was The Dominion, the Cardassian Union, the Breen Confederacy, and other smaller powers VS the United Federation of Planets, the Klingon Empire, the Romulan Star Empire, and other smaller powers.

Note: historically both the Klingon Empire and Romulan Star Empire were consider near-peer powers to the Federation. In one timeline the Klingon Empire was actually winning a war against the Federation. So these were not some small powers, the Feds, Klinks and Rommies are the Big Three powers of Star Trek prior to the Dominion showing up and pretty much dominated all politics in their regions uncontested save for each other. That those three powers were united on the same side is very much having the US, UK, and USSR on the same team... it's a LOT of heavy firepower. The Breen were a longstanding peer opponent of the Romulans who brought some very... interesting tech to the war, and the Cardassians were, effectively, the Sick Man of the Alpha Quadrant.

I thought it took place in multiple galaxies

Just to add as of Star Trek Prodigy (Which the showrunners have confirmed is canon) Starfleet has functional and working Quantum Slipstream drives on some ships as of 2384. This would give the Federation a Galaxy spanning reach not relliant on the 40K Warp.

Also like I said earlier we have a few godlike beings that are Federation citizens. They just don't get involved most of the time in the affairs of the Galaxy. Being thrown into the 40K universe would get them to be more proactive. When you send all of the Federation citizens to 40K you don't get to pick and choose the citizens you send.

And that is like saying the Necrons will release the C'tan loose amongst the Federation if being of energy exist and ones the Old Onee couldn't just wave away.

And yes i can pick amd choose.
This isnt a vs if "Federation with a few uber powwred people who can one shot a universe" it is supposed to ve jist the Federation.

trying to pick amd choose super beings goes against the nature.

all i qould have to say then is the Orks have been known to create entities so powerful they became thier own Choas Gods just by believing in them. Ones that even Chaos can't destroy IN THIER OWN REALM.

So lets not use these super powrwd people that have never helped the Federation in a conflict.

where were they when they were thrwatened bynthe domionon?

@Zachowon
have you stated what era of ST gets ported to the Grimdark?

Most recent era seen in canon

 

[Sailor.X]

I thought it took place in multiple galaxies

And that is like saying the Necrons will release the C'tan loose amongst the Federation if being of energy exist and ones the Old Onee couldn't just wave away.

And yes i can pick amd choose.
This isnt a vs if "Federation with a few uber powwred people who can one shot a universe" it is supposed to ve jist the Federation.

trying to pick amd choose super beings goes against the nature.

all i qould have to say then is the Orks have been known to create entities so powerful they became thier own Choas Gods just by believing in them. Ones that even Chaos can't destroy IN THIER OWN REALM.

So lets not use these super powrwd people that have never helped the Federation in a conflict.

where were they when they were thrwatened bynthe domionon?

Most recent era seen in canon

Um the most recent era seen in Canon is the 32nd Century Federation in Discovery. Um you sure you want to use that????

 

[Zachowon]

Um the most recent era seen in Canon is the 32nd Century Federation in Discovery. Um you sure you want to use that????

Recent as in era the series takes place in. Apperence of ones domt count.

 

[S'task]

Um the most recent era seen in Canon is the 32nd Century Federation in Discovery. Um you sure you want to use that????

Yeah, not really a good one. Firstly we only have limited information on it, secondly, Discovery has shamelessly ripped off the premise of Andromeda, so the Federation is functionally a ghost of itself in that from what I've seen. Thirdly, the information we DO have and what they could pull out and rebuild is literally Time Lord level tech. This is the remains of the Federation that WON the Temporal Cold War and canonically used extensive time travel to fuck up their enemies to the point where everyone involved eventually swore off time travel entirely.

 

[S'task]

Recent as in era the series takes place in. Apperence of ones domt count.

Discovery is taking place in that era... like I said, they're ripping off Andromeda.

 

[Zachowon]

Discovery is taking place in that era... like I said, they're ripping off Andromeda.

Wait what?
Isn't discovery supposed to be a prequel?
Okay let's go with the Federation we all can agree on. What ever series is newest that isn't 32nd

 

[Sailor.X]

Wait what?
Isn't discovery supposed to be a prequel?
Okay let's go with the Federation we all can agree on. What ever series is newest that isn't 32nd

That would be Star Trek Picard Season 2 with the trailer for Season 3.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

It again, would depend on the world.

Would the Governor risk Inquisition coming there to take him out of for the Imperium to launch a crusade?
Tempting yes but would depend on the world.

I think your exaggerating the threat. The Imperium is not a well-run organization and especially for planets out on the periphery it's existence is frequently more of theory than a hard reality. To quote from the rule book again.

Worse still is the very monolithic bureaucracy by which the Imperium Sanctus is governed; mindless and uncaring, glacially slow, the machineries of the administration grind all into dust...Response times to crises can often be measured in years, decades, even centuries. To this vast bureaucratic machine the fates of entire worlds barely register, while individual lives mean less than nothing. The living beings of the Imperium are but grist for its ever turning mill, a resource no different to the promethium that fuels its engines, the iron and adamantine that armors its warriors and war engines and the protein gruel that feeds its armies in the field. Most of the men and women who populate this sprawling empire are born, live their lives of toil and fear and eventually die from hardship, malnutrition, exhaustion or some barely remarked upon industrial accident without ever having seen an alien, a heretic, nor even a warrior of Humanity's armies

Core Rule Book, 2020, pages 20-21

In comparison to a border world the Federation will almost certainly seem far more substantial than the Imperium. Far from fear of reprisal I would think most worlds that refuse the offer would do so from actual loyalty to the ideals of the Imperium and faith in the God-Emperor.

Though as we know the deeper on learns of Choas the better they are able to he brought in under thier power. Or at least fall for tricks easier.

Interacting with Chaos certainly has its risks but in the Federation case the rewards likely outweigh the potential pitfalls. Certainly some madness and corruption will happen, I previous mentioned Lovecraftian apocalyptic logs left by crazed starfleet researchers, but I think they could make headway in discovering how the Warp works and taking steps to neutralizing it on a local level.

 

[Zachowon]

That would be Star Trek Picard Season 2 with the trailer for Season 3.

Then yes. Then

I think your exaggerating the threat. The Imperium is not a well-run organization and especially for planets out on the periphery it's existence is frequently more of theory than a hard reality. To quote from the rule book again.



Core Rule Book, 2020, pages 20-21

In comparison to a border world the Federation will almost certainly seem far more substantial than the Imperium. Far from fear of reprisal I would think most worlds that refuse the offer would do so from actual loyalty to the ideals of the Imperium and faith in the God-Emperor.


Interacting with Chaos certainly has its risks but in the Federation case the rewards likely outweigh the potential pitfalls. Certainly some madness and corruption will happen, I previous mentioned Lovecraftian apocalyptic logs left by crazed starfleet researchers, but I think they could make headway in discovering how the Warp works and taking steps to neutralizing it on a local level.

I mean, the closest you get to neutralizing the Warp are the necron pylons and that is about it. They wouldn't be able to learn exactly how it works as it...well it doesn't work like normal physics. It makes its own rules in it.
Like, I am not trying to say "They can't figure it out because 40k cant" but more along the lines if, we as the audience don't even know how it works

 

[Sailor.X]

Then yes. Then

I mean, the closest you get to neutralizing the Warp are the necron pylons and that is about it. They wouldn't be able to learn exactly how it works as it...well it doesn't work like normal physics. It makes its own rules in it.
Like, I am not trying to say "They can't figure it out because 40k cant" but more along the lines if, we as the audience don't even know how it works

This Era of the Federation unlike TNG era is a way more combat focused era of Star Trek. You have ships like the Behemoth USS Enterprise F (Damn I love that monster) and other very advanced ships being cranked out like gangbusters. You have Quantum Slipstream more of a standard kit for ships. And Officers that have more of a TOS mindset when it comes to threats. The Brass is mostly Dominion War Veterans instead of peaceniks. So you have a Starfleet that is totally and completely over an Enemy of the weeks shit.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

I think the fundamental problem is that the Federation fundamentally lacks the will to protect its people.

We've seen how the Federation handles serious threats -- diplomacy, appeasement, surrender. More to the point, the Federation's "very best" captain actively colluded with the enemy to the point of betraying and framing a fellow Starfleet officer because he decided that covering up enemy attacks on his own people in order to preserve the peace talks was "for the greater good". Quite simply, with this sort of moral character on top of its cowardice, the Federation doesn't even need to be tempted to fall to Chaos; it has already fallen.

 

[Sailor.X]

I think the fundamental problem is that the Federation fundamentally lacks the will to protect its people.

We've seen how the Federation handles serious threats -- diplomacy, appeasement, surrender. More to the point, the Federation's "very best" captain actively colluded with the enemy to the point of betraying and framing a fellow Starfleet officer because he decided that covering up enemy attacks on his own people in order to preserve the peace talks was "for the greater good". Quite simply, with this sort of moral character on top of its cowardice, the Federation doesn't even need to be tempted to fall to Chaos; it has already fallen.

Objection Captain James T Kirk did none of those things.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

I mean, the closest you get to neutralizing the Warp are the necron pylons and that is about it. They wouldn't be able to learn exactly how it works as it...well it doesn't work like normal physics. It makes its own rules in it.
Like, I am not trying to say "They can't figure it out because 40k cant" but more along the lines if, we as the audience don't even know how it works

Not sure I follow your logic. Sure we the audience don't understand how the Warp actually works but the same can be said of warp drive, replicators or transporters from Star Trek which are generally not assumed to be magic black boxes in these kind of cross over scenarios.

Further Necron pylons are proof that the Warp can be studied and neutralized. That it's bound by its own set of rules even if those are different from the physical universe. And obviously Gellar Fields are another example of technology creating a "negative space" where the Warp can't intrude.

We've seen how the Federation handles serious threats -- diplomacy, appeasement, surrender. More to the point, the Federation's "very best" captain actively colluded with the enemy to the point of betraying and framing a fellow Starfleet officer because he decided that covering up enemy attacks on his own people in order to preserve the peace talks was "for the greater good". Quite simply, with this sort of moral character on top of its cowardice, the Federation doesn't even need to be tempted to fall to Chaos; it has already fallen.

Forgive me, but which Captain are we talking about?

As for the Federation as a whole, that's a gross oversimplification to say they handle "serious threats" with surrender. Ask the Dominion how quickly the Federation surrendered. And in at least in the case of one captain, Sisko, when presented with information the Federation was doomed to lose and that surrendering was the the long-term best option he flatly rejected it.

The Federation does appear to prefer maintaining the status quo at least during the time immediate before and during the TNG era. I suspect this is because the Federation believes everyone, from Klingons to Cardassians, will ultimate decide to join the Federation and thus, for the most part, prefer that the Klingons, Romulans ect remain relative monolithic blocs with a unified culture that can be influenced as opposed to hundred or thousands of mini-fiefdoms with their own agendas, identities and cultures.

 

[S'task]

Forgive me, but which Captain are we talking about?

She's talking about the events of The Wounded in TNG, in this case the Captain she's talking about is Picard. It's not an entirely accurate picture of that episode, and takes the events of that episodes and paints with a very broad brush to imply that that's what standard Federation policy would be despite them behaving differently at later points.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

She's talking about the events of The Wounded in TNG, in this case the Captain she's talking about is Picard. It's not an entirely accurate picture of that episode, and takes the events of that episodes and paints with a very broad brush to imply that that's what standard Federation policy would be despite them behaving differently at later points.

Oh, I see. I mean yeah, that's taking accenting the negative of the episode to a large degree. I certainly get disagreeing with Picard's decision in the episode but I'm not really sure he had much choice. Maxwell had gone rogue and was attacking Cardassian ships and outposts in his own private little war. And I'm sure Picard thought it was better if the Enterprise brought the Phoenix in without further bloodshed than the Cardassians eventually wearing him down.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

Picard *outright told the Cardassians* that he knew full well Maxwell was telling the truth all along, but had chosen to preserve the peace talks by refusing to look at the factual evidence and pretending it didn’t exist. He tried to say he’d hold that over their heads as a deterrent against further attacks, but the Cardassians correctly pointed out that this was an empty threat because he had proven himself to be too much of a coward to actually go through with it.

Picard’s strategy literally only works if he’s hiding the evidence *from Starfleet Command* to ensure that Maxwell gets unjustly court-martialed and silenced. Because otherwise, the Federation pulls out of the peace talks a week later when Maxwell gets the chance to tell Command the truth.

 

[Sailor.X]

Starfleet is not judged by just one man's actions. Case in point







In the end Cardassia did not come out on top and was made into a rump state dependent on the Federation in less than 5 years time.

 

[Agent23]

Starfleet is not judged by just one man's actions. Case in point







In the end Cardassia did not come out on top and was made into a rump state dependent on the Federation in less than 5 years time.

And basically appeasing the Cardassians while they were winning and while the Cardies were invading planets where federation citizens lived without any proper claim to them is what?

Ultimately, the Federation is both too holier than thou and militarily and politically incompetent to last in the 40k verse.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

And basically appeasing the Cardassians while they were winning and while the Cardies were invading planets where federation citizens lived without any proper claim to them is what?

Ultimately, the Federation is both too holier than thou and militarily and politically incompetent to last in the 40k verse.

My point exactly. The Federation is a vastly more pleasant place to live than 40K, but the 40K setting *partially* justifies the Imperium’s otherwise ludicrously evil behavior with threats like Chaos infestation.