Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
Yes, they are soft, often self-possessed, troglodytes that will become instant Slaanesh chow.
What If? Star Trek Federation is transported into the 40k galaxy
- Thread starter Zachowon
- Start date
What about targeting only commanders then? the same for orcs.Rest would be deal with bombarding.
@Agent23 ,they are not degenerates like antifa,but people with self-control.
Slaanesh would not get much there,only tumor who could win more is Tzaaneth.
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
I don't agree, they have often shown that they are very self-obsessed, especially with their artsy nonsense, and Slaanesh is not the god of degeneracy only, xhe is the god of excess and obsession.
Excess holodeck usage, narcissism, self-aggrandizement, the mania to make something just perfect like that loon with the genesis tech that wanted to make perfect garden worlds, a lot of other artsy types and scientists.
Khorne will find decent soil among Section 31 and the likes of Leyton and Nachaev and the Maquis leftovers.
Basically anyone who is fed up with the stupid peace-nick approach the federation has and there are quite a few of them, even Pukard when he goes all Ahab where the Borg are concerned.
And for all the peacenicks and other people who just want to kick the can down the road, there is papa Nurgle.
Tumor of excess.And ST deal with it,just like Khrne.Nurgle could do nothing in society where people ae cared of.
So,only our beloved molusk remained.
Bear Ribs
Well-known member
The Issue with The Wounded is that Maxwell went off AWOL and started blowing up enemy ships without authorization.
One could envision a similar situation with, say, a US Navy Submarine Captain finds out Chinese cargo ships are secretly sending weapons to Russia to use against Ukraine. The Sub Captain then reasons to himself that by the time Washington DC decides what to do, the cargo ships will have already reached port, so he doesn't even bother to send a report (Picard's briefing didn't indicate anything about Cardassian weapon smuggling) and just sinks the Chinese Vessels, then goes on a spree of continuing to sink other Chinese ships at will because they might be carrying weapons too.
At that point would the US Navy be wrong to relieve the Sub Captain of command and count martial him? Would the US be weak to engage in diplomatic efforts to smooth things over while privately informing Chinese Authorities that they know what really happened and there will be dire consequences if any more weapon smuggling goes on? Of course not.
As far as the planet swaps with Cardassia let's just look at real life, Israel vs. Palestine. Israel can, in fact, kill every last man woman and child in the Western Bank and Gaza strip, but they really don't want to take that route. There have been numerous treaties proposed that have land swaps to clean up the borderlines... actually just about every solution proposed has had land swaps (We do know the Cardassians ceded planets to the Federation as well). Nobody but ITG Edgelords thinks Israel is weak and incompetent for suggesting such a treaty instead of reaching for the Genocide button.
On the Maquis front, imagine that Israel managed to get peace with Palestine and a two-state solution appeared. Israel starts pulling back citizens from areas it's trading, offering all those citizens comparable plots of land inside Israel's new borders. Some Israeli settlers demand they be allowed to stay, get violent with the peacekeepers overseeing the withdrawal, pull the race card, and finally demand they be allowed to become Jewish citizens of the Palestinian nation. Would you do anything but roll your eyes so hard you get friction burns inside your eyelid when this goes poorly for them and they start claiming they'd been abandoned by their government to the tender mercies of Palestinians?
One could envision a similar situation with, say, a US Navy Submarine Captain finds out Chinese cargo ships are secretly sending weapons to Russia to use against Ukraine. The Sub Captain then reasons to himself that by the time Washington DC decides what to do, the cargo ships will have already reached port, so he doesn't even bother to send a report (Picard's briefing didn't indicate anything about Cardassian weapon smuggling) and just sinks the Chinese Vessels, then goes on a spree of continuing to sink other Chinese ships at will because they might be carrying weapons too.
At that point would the US Navy be wrong to relieve the Sub Captain of command and count martial him? Would the US be weak to engage in diplomatic efforts to smooth things over while privately informing Chinese Authorities that they know what really happened and there will be dire consequences if any more weapon smuggling goes on? Of course not.
As far as the planet swaps with Cardassia let's just look at real life, Israel vs. Palestine. Israel can, in fact, kill every last man woman and child in the Western Bank and Gaza strip, but they really don't want to take that route. There have been numerous treaties proposed that have land swaps to clean up the borderlines... actually just about every solution proposed has had land swaps (We do know the Cardassians ceded planets to the Federation as well). Nobody but ITG Edgelords thinks Israel is weak and incompetent for suggesting such a treaty instead of reaching for the Genocide button.
On the Maquis front, imagine that Israel managed to get peace with Palestine and a two-state solution appeared. Israel starts pulling back citizens from areas it's trading, offering all those citizens comparable plots of land inside Israel's new borders. Some Israeli settlers demand they be allowed to stay, get violent with the peacekeepers overseeing the withdrawal, pull the race card, and finally demand they be allowed to become Jewish citizens of the Palestinian nation. Would you do anything but roll your eyes so hard you get friction burns inside your eyelid when this goes poorly for them and they start claiming they'd been abandoned by their government to the tender mercies of Palestinians?
Picard was wrong for lying about what was going on. It's that simple.
He felt he knew better then his command what should happen. He should have lost his rank abd been cashiered without benefits.
"Oh, you don't like it Picard? Go make some wine."
He felt he knew better then his command what should happen. He should have lost his rank abd been cashiered without benefits.
"Oh, you don't like it Picard? Go make some wine."
Bear Ribs
Well-known member
We have no reason to presume Picard lied. The claim is that the Federation would never have continued a treaty with Cardassia unless Picard lied to Starfleet Command, but that's just Fanon and we have no way of knowing that. There could be any number of offscreen factors that made the Federation decide to overlook the incident or perhaps impose sanctions. The assumption that the only possibilities are either "Picard Lied" or "full-on war" is a frankly baffling example of the Either-Or Fallacy. Picard's warning that they'd be watching the Cardassians, in fact, must mean he informed Starfleet or they wouldn't know to be watching.
Knowledgeispower
Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't Star Trek ship ludicrously maneuverable and quick to accelerate and decelerate compared to 40K ships?
Crom's Black Blade
Well-known member
Okay I think you're memory of the episode is a little off. For starters the episode starts by confirming that "It has been nearly a year since a peace treaty ended the long conflict between the Federation and Cardassia." There are no "peace talks" since the War is long over by this point in time.
Second the episode ends with Picard's "We'll be watching" warning with Gul Macet not offering any rebuttal or claiming it was an empty threat.
Nor would I classify Picard's action being motivated by cowardice. Rather if anything it seemed to stem from a holier than thou attitude and complacency on Picard's part. The Cardassians were not a threat. From the Federation perspective it's unclear if they were even at war at all in the first couple of seasons of TNG are to be of any judge. Starfleet is happily and merrily exploring space peacefully despite technically being at war with the Cardassians until the 3rd season.
So the fact they were re-arming was of far less importance than the fact Maxwell had violated the treaty. Not a mindset I agree with but one I can understand. Through even with their honor before reason, Picard still said this about Maxwell:
One could certainly complain that Picard has his smug head up his ass in the episode, I certainly have in the past, but nothing indicates he's trying to frame or belittle Maxwell or seeks anything but for Maxwell to answer for his actions.
And I will point out that Maxwell and his crew should have exactly the same information regarding the location of the "research station" and cargo ships running to it with jamming fields that Picard mentions. So even if Picard desired to withhold this information it would still be brought up during any trial.
Which ties back to Picard's warning. The Federation will now know the Cardassians are re-arming and will be watching them accordingly.
That the Federation decided some insignificant colonies on the edges of their territory weren't worth the cost of time and lives lost to keep them, both in Federation and Cardassian lives, and which their enemy had at least some basis for a claim is, if anything, proof of competent leadership rather than the inverse.
The Federation knew what it wanted and what it would be willing to pay to obtain it and did so. While a bit of a dick move to the colonists in those planets by all accounts they could make new homes elsewhere and in at least some cases those affected were granted some kind of Cardassian citizenship that allowed them to stay on their world of choice.
And I'm surprised you cling to this conflict, a rather minor one from the Federation perspective, as opposed to the Dominion war
I would have to disagree. As you yourself bring up, Slaanesh isn't the God of pleasure or love but ultimately of excess. And that is something that the Federation isn't. And we know from Barclay that there are social pressures against those who start to develop holo-addiction and whose fantasies were so mild I'm not even sure Slaanesh could count them.
And before any of that could happen there would need to be a point of contamination. A cult member, rogue pysker, artifact ect which brings the unfortunate soul in contact to Chaos.
Additionally your argument rests on the presumption that the Imperium society is ideal or at least effective at curbing Chaos influence which does not seem to be the case. To quote from the rule book:
Core Rule book, 2020, page 36
Simply put the Imperium causes as much of the problem as it solves with its brutality. In comparison the utopian Federation gives far fewer reasons to want to join up with the Dark Gods.
They are. Even in TNG you can see instances when even the Enterprise D could turn on a dime when it needed to.
Sometimes they are. Most of the time, however, they only do large, swooping turns and consider these to be effective evasion maneuvers; then again, this is a universe where a completely non-maneuvering derelict Voyager probe drifting through deep space is described as a "most difficult" target to hit.
Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
The Imperium's ships can probably turn reasonably well too. They also engage at far greater ranges than Star Trek's vessels usually do. By the time the Feddie fleet has formed up, the Imperial sector fleet will have formed a line of battle and already be hammering them with lance batteries.
Crom's Black Blade
Well-known member
Depends on what you mean by "usually do". Star Trek is a visual medium and thus battles do tend towards cinematic affairs but when actual distances are given for combat ranges they frequently are in the tens if not hundreds of thousands of kilometers which are not massively different from the figures you'd find in Battlefleet Gothic rule book.
Further if the Federation desires to engage at knife-fight ranges then they aren't going to sit back at 300,000 kilometers waiting for the Imperials to form a battle line. They'd drop out of warp right on top of them and start hammering the fleet likely before the Imperium ships even knew what was happening.
Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
They then run slap bang into Imperial escorts as the battleships bring themselves around to unleash their continent cracking broadsides.
The Imperial Navy is one of the foremost fleets in science fiction with very good reason.
Only problem for the Feds is that I'm not sure their weapons will penetrate Void Shielding...
Cue power level arguments.
<Monk takes himself away to hide...with popcorn>
Crom's Black Blade
Well-known member
I would have to politely disagree. There's no reason the fleet would have to drop out of warp in front of the escorts and, should they desire too, could drop well beyond them and attack the battleships directly. It wouldn't even be out of the possibility of dropping to sublight firing a salvo off and then immediately jumping back to warp for a couple of AU's then coming back around to do it all over again.
Between that and at least some maneuverability and agility while at sublight any battle is going to turn into a messy hornet nests of strafing Federation ships.
Actually Void shields don't seem to stop torpedoes, at least that's what the Battlefleet Gothic rule book says, so Federation torpedoes presumably would penetrate a void shield.
Why? They are energy based torpedoes.
If Starfleet really got pissed and morals are turned off. They could destroy every star in every system the Imperium of Man controls and It would be trivially easy to do. Just drop out of warp. Fire a few Nova inducing torpedoes at the star then warp out. No need to even stick around in system. And if the imperium shows up Redmatter and Tranphasic Torpedoes are a thing. And not nice things to be hit with.
Oh and we know Section 31 would have no issues with playing dirty.
Oh and we know Section 31 would have no issues with playing dirty.
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Yes,ST was more capable of anihilate their enemies then IoM - they simply choosed not to.
But,if IoM force their hand...
P.S it no need to be every planet - only bigger Mechanicus worlds.And ask IoM after destroing 100,if they REALLY prefer hostility to peace.
Knowledgeispower
Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
I will note that Imperial warships basically as a rule don't crack 10Gs in acceleration. Meanwhile....it takes what maybe a few seconds to reach full impulse which is usually around 25% the speed of light? I don't know if the Imperium has the means to have their weapons track ships going that fast