Serious question about anti-Semitism.

[JagerIV]

That might be the reality on the ground in ZA, but I think expecting ethnic self-policing like that in the rest of the West is admitting defeat and contributing to the problem.

It may come to that, regardless of our wishes, but man is that a terrible end. The end-state of multiculturalism is the Balkans, and all it will take is serious economic trouble. Better to stop it in the first place than play the game.

Well, its basically expected of every other ethnic group: white people denouncing white nationalists is basically a formulaic thing expected to be done if asked. If someone is claiming to speak for you, no one but you is in a real position to counteract that claim.

And some jews are doing a reasonably good job of it: for example, if there was a Jewish Conspiracy, it would probably be the ADL.

Thankfully, supporting the ADL is becoming less, expected of a Jew in Good standing with the community. Just as in (probably still the fringes) of the black community people like Al Sharpton are being given less weight in the community as good pillars and representatives of the black community.

Democracy though is inherently interest group focused. No one can do what "black people" want. All the people in government can do is listen to, for example, a Martin Luther King or Malcolm X and make a decision on how well they're a representation of the "black" community. Just as a congressmen can only really listen to a Wayne La Pierre of the NRA as an approximation of what all gun owners as an interest group want.

People and governments can only really listen to representatives of interest groups. If that interest group lets some self appointed people put themselves forward as the voice of that interest group with no real push back, then well, the powers that be and the people at large have to assume that those people really do represent what that interest group wants, or at least is a representative their comfortable with.

 

[Lanmandragon]

Well, its basically expected of every other ethnic group: white people denouncing white nationalists is basically a formulaic thing expected to be done if asked. If someone is claiming to speak for you, no one but you is in a real position to counteract that claim.

And some jews are doing a reasonably good job of it: for example, if there was a Jewish Conspiracy, it would probably be the ADL.

Thankfully, supporting the ADL is becoming less, expected of a Jew in Good standing with the community. Just as in (probably still the fringes) of the black community people like Al Sharpton are being given less weight in the community as good pillars and representatives of the black community.

Democracy though is inherently interest group focused. No one can do what "black people" want. All the people in government can do is listen to, for example, a Martin Luther King or Malcolm X and make a decision on how well they're a representation of the "black" community. Just as a congressmen can only really listen to a Wayne La Pierre of the NRA as an approximation of what all gun owners as an interest group want.

People and governments can only really listen to representatives of interest groups. If that interest group lets some self appointed people put themselves forward as the voice of that interest group with no real push back, then well, the powers that be and the people at large have to assume that those people really do represent what that interest group wants, or at least is a representative their comfortable with.

Every single one of the issues surrondibg this are derived from "groups". The key is to not look at "groups" but individuals. The difference being I'm an American who happens to be black. Not a black man who happens to he American. Collectivistism is horsepoo I'm not a group dynamic. Instead I'm a man who stands or falls on his own merits.Does that make sense?

 

[Scottty]

The USA is one of the few countries to have more than a 1% jewish population, due to a mixture of there not being lots of hebrews in other nations to begin with, and in the case of most european countries, the Holocaust. The other countries, by the way, are Canada and Israel; these three, along with neighbouring nations maybe, would be the only countries in which people still discuss antisemitism because they are the only ones in which there is semitism period.

For your information, there are small Jewish communities in both South Africa and Australia. They don't call attention to themselves much. Since their religion requires observant Jews to live within walking distance of their place of worship, a given suburb will either have loads of Jews, or practically no Jews at all.
There's plenty of anti-Israel sentiment here in Cape Town though, among the Muslim population.

Every single one of the issues surrondibg this are derived from "groups". The key is to not look at "groups" but individuals. The difference being I'm an American who happens to be black. Not a black man who happens to he American. Collectivistism is horsepoo I'm not a group dynamic. Instead I'm a man who stands or falls on his own merits.Does that make sense?

It makes sense, but it won't work for the people who don't have "own merits" to stand on, and so need the group to carry them. Lots of those people around.
Also, I'm guessing that as "an American who happens to be black" you speak the same language, hold much the same religious beliefs, have much the same values and expectations about your place in the world as do your paler-skinned compatriots.
Much of what divides humanity into groups, are things that actually do make an important difference.

Consider how your "let's forget all about groups, and just be individuals" philosophy might sound to someone whose personal identity is very much based on being part of a specific religious or ethnic group.

 

[Lanmandragon]

For your information, there are small Jewish communities in both South Africa and Australia. They don't call attention to themselves much. Since their religion requires observant Jews to live within walking distance of their place of worship, a given suburb will either have loads of Jews, or practically no Jews at all.
There's plenty of anti-Israel sentiment here in Cape Town though, among the Muslim population.



It makes sense, but it won't work for the people who don't have "own merits" to stand on, and so need the group to carry them. Lots of those people around.
Also, I'm guessing that as "an American who happens to be black" you speak the same language, hold much the same religious beliefs, have much the same values and expectations about your place in the world as do your paler-skinned compatriots.
Much of what divides humanity into groups, are things that actually do make an important difference.

Consider how your "let's forget all about groups, and just be individuals" philosophy might sound to someone whose personal identity is very much based on being part of a specific religious or ethnic group.

I don't have the time or energy to worry about what idiots think. Culture matters "race" is a bullshit classification. That holds no bearing in reality. What you believe is what matters not what color your skin is.

 

[PsihoKekec]

Also, because most European countries have education programs that, at one point or other, remind people that WW2 was the worst, and that they should learn some lessons there like "don't be a goddamn racist".

That was in the past, in the past decades the Europe imported a lot of people who are thouroughly indoctrinated to hate Jews and due to dictate multiculturalism this culture of hatred must be respected. And as result of muticultural tide far right is also gaining strenght and they also hate Jews.

 

[Nitramy]

The thing is, culture flows from race, but races can assimilate into better cultures. The question is, does the race doing the assimilating do a good enough job of "paying it forward", i.e. working towards the betterment of their fellows?

When I see places like Africa, I tend to think "no".

 

[Lanmandragon]

The thing is, culture flows from race, but races can assimilate into better cultures. The question is, does the race doing the assimilating do a good enough job of "paying it forward", i.e. working towards the betterment of their fellows?

When I see places like Africa, I tend to think "no".

Bull fucking shit. Culture flows from your raised. I'm living proof of that. I rejected the victim and ganster mentality of my racial kin. I succeeded because of that. I accepted responsibility for my life. I accepted fhe philosophies and concepts written by white men ( really just men). Faliure isntt gentically predetermined which is what your belifes necessitate. It's alearned behaviour.

 

[Nitramy]

Bull fucking shit. Culture flows from your raised. I'm living proof of that. I rejected the victim and gangster mentality of my racial kin. I succeeded because of that. I accepted responsibility for my life. I accepted the philosophies and concepts written by white men ( really just men). Failure isn't genetically predetermined which is what your beliefs necessitate. It's a learned behaviour.

What I meant to say was that most cultures were made by racially homogenous communities over a long period of time. This does not necessarily mean that "if you're of x race you have y culture", though it tends towards that.

Once again, it's up to the individual to abandon their race or culture's unproductive tendencies and enlightened governments to work to promote productive ones.

This is perhaps why I find these "we're leftists, but when we're criticized, we're Jewish" people beyond the pale. The one shot people have of transcending their race and culture, and they shit all over it because they're not the most cultured and most elite ones out there anymore.

 

[Lanmandragon]

What I meant to say was that most cultures were made by racially homogenous communities over a long period of time. This does not necessarily mean that "if you're of x race you have y culture", though it tends towards that.

Once again, it's up to the individual to abandon their race or culture's unproductive tendencies and enlightened governments to work to promote productive ones.

This is perhaps why I find these "we're leftists, but when we're criticized, we're Jewish" people beyond the pale. The one shot people have of transcending their race and culture, and they shit all over it because they're not the most cultured and most elite ones out there anymore.

Ethnic nationalism is garbage and should die in a fire. What makes culture is skin colour its shared beliefs and values. Civic Nationalism is the correct way to build a society.

 

[Nitramy]

Ethnic nationalism is garbage and should die in a fire. What makes culture is skin colour its shared beliefs and values. Civic Nationalism is the correct way to build a society.

What made you think I'm a proponent for ethnic nationalism? I'm just saying that the racial roots of culture should be acknowledged, NOT returned to, as these ethnic nationalist ideologues say.

 

[Lanmandragon]

My grandfather went overseas under the flag of a nation that oppressed him. He risked his life to put down the evild of anti-Semitism in Europe. I'll be Goddamned if I let it happen here. Jews are just people period. Yeah they have bad apples just like every other group. Because (drumroll) they're people. Judging folks by the actions of others is flat out evil. There's no justification that exists to make it right. Hell the very idea of collectvisim is a vile thing. I'm am not responsible for the actions of others and neither are Jewish folks. Hold folks to thier own actions not those of others.

 

[Lanmandragon]

What made you think I'm a proponent for ethnic nationalism? I'm just saying that the racial roots of culture should be acknowledged, NOT returned to, as these ethnic nationalist ideologues say.

The thread is literally about holding Jewish people responsible for actions they never committed. Because folks of the sane ethnicity did bad things. How else am I supposed to interpret it?

 

[Scottty]

Ethnic nationalism is garbage and should die in a fire. What makes culture is skin colour its shared beliefs and values. Civic Nationalism is the correct way to build a society.

Which is great if you are building a society. If you find an uninhabited island on which to found a new country, feel free to recruit people who believe in Civic Nationalism. Let us know how well that goes.
But existing societies are a mishmash of cultures and ideologies. Trying to make them all change their beliefs to yours isn't going to work.

 

[Lanmandragon]

Which is great if you are building a society. If you find an uninhabited island on which to found a new country, feel free to recruit people who believe in Civic Nationalism. Let us know how well that goes.
But existing societies are a mishmash of cultures and ideologies. Trying to make them all change their beliefs to yours isn't going to work.

What do you suggest then huh? The truth is it's either that or genocide. There really isn't any middle ground. Blood and soil or Civic Nationalism. Choose

 

[Nitramy]

What do you suggest then huh? The truth is it's either that or genocide. There really isn't any middle ground. Blood and soil or Civic Nationalism. Choose

Only the Sith deal in absolutes, my friend.

My grandfather went overseas under the flag of a nation that oppressed him. He risked his life to put down the evils of anti-Semitism in Europe. I'll be Goddamned if I let it happen here. Jews are just people period. Yeah they have bad apples just like every other group. Because (drumroll) they're people. Judging folks by the actions of others is flat out evil. There's no justification that exists to make it right. Hell the very idea of collectivism is a vile thing. I'm not responsible for the actions of others and neither are Jewish folks. Hold folks to their own actions not those of others.

There's a catch, though: ideological possession is a thing. It's what drives these people to do these very bad things. Flying planes into buildings, wrapping women in garbage bags, female genital mutilation, grooming gangs, no-go-zones, pornography, Marxism, the Frankfurt school, bike lock professors, antifa nutjobs, Tropes vs. The Sietch, all of these are done by people who are ideologically possessed and thus deem "the enemy" as subhuman.

Are you going to tell me "let's be the better person even when the enemy is at our doorstep"? Hell no. We bring out the big guns and perform a show of force that will have their grandchildren thinking twice about doing the same thing their idiot zealot ancestors did.

 

[LifeisTiresome]

Let's calm down a bit guys.

We are just having a discussion here. Not setting policy.

Now, I have already made my position clear pages ago and rest of my posts are just pointing my observations of what I see on the net. Won't bring up more cause its just more of the same.

 

[Edgeplay_cgo]

I recall mention on the news of jews being attacked in Europe.

Lots of them, particularly in France, where there are significant numbers of Jews fleeing the country. Then again France was an ally of Nazi Germany through much of the war. And all the trains for Auschwitz left on time.

 

[PsihoKekec]

I guess it might have something to do with France importing lot of North Africans who are taught to hate Jews in their seperate society within France.

 

[Deleted member]

I think the bottom line is that peoples’ deeds should speak for themselves as individuals and by that standard you will find more Jews are good people than among many larger groups.

 

[Deleted member]

Tropes vs. The Sietch.

Huh? Did something happen I am not aware of?