SCOTUS Getting Shade Over Roe v Wade

[Bacle]

Like I, in the absence of a decent libertarian candidate, would vote Red for a candidate against gay marriage, cause there's no chance that gets overturned. Until it does, then I really got to consider voting blue

So even the idea of RvW being overturned, as it should be, is enough to make you vote blue?

Wow.

 

[Rocinante]

So even the idea of RvW being overturned, as it should be, is enough to make you vote blue?

Wow.

I think he meant he would vote blue if they pulled off anti gay marriage measures

 

[Bacle]

I think he meant he would vote blue if they pulled off anti gay marriage measures

...it didn't seem like that, from the context of his previous posts, but maybe it's just a grammer parsing issue.

 

[Rocinante]

...it didn't seem like that, from the context of his previous posts, but maybe it's just a grammer parsing issue.

he can correct me if I'm wrong, but I understood that he is generally in support of overturning RvW but is afraid it will have people vote blue who might have voted red, and he is using gay marriage as an example of something that would make him do that same, to counter arguments that it isn't going to be a loss for the GOP.

 

[Battlegrinder]

The abortion debate is fucking bullshit and it distracts the right from vsrious more important things.

Define "the abortion debate", because there's actually two issues involved in it, the moral question of if abortion itself is morally defensible, and then there's the largely unrelated question about how the first question should be addressed legally. I would argue that questions like "whi gets to make the rules that you have to live by" are of considerable importance, in part because it ties into a number of other cultures war type issues.

I would also argue that abortion is one of the biggest issues in politics right now, both in terms of the moral issues being weighted, and because Roe itself is a festering cancer that has done incalculable damage to our system of government. Democrats have been corroding the SC appointment process for decades, from Bork onwards, in the name of defending Roe at all costs, despite it being a fundamentally wrong decision. The only way to even have a chance at healing the damage is to tear Roe out by the roots and return the debate to the legislative arena, where it always should have been.

 

[Agent23]

No it does not distract the right from more important things. Honestly what kind of retard argument is this, you might as well say that kid grooming and trannies, and sodomy all distracts the right from more important things. If the right does not move forward to push it's morals then the left will.

The Uniparty, cultural Marxism, the economy, the gaping chest-wound that is your porous border, the trashfire that is US foreign policy, RUNAWAY INFLATION, crony capitalism, men's rights issues, big, profligate government that spends like a drunken sailor, FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

Feel free to check out the Abortion thread to see my opinion on the abortion thing, though.
It is, as is firearms control, the main tool of the Uniparty to divert attention from its bullshit.

 

[Agent23]

Define "the abortion debate", because there's actually two issues involved in it, the moral question of if abortion itself is morally defensible, and then there's the largely unrelated question about how the first question should be addressed legally. I would argue that questions like "whi gets to make the rules that you have to live by" are of considerable importance, in part because it ties into a number of other cultures war type issues.

I would also argue that abortion is one of the biggest issues in politics right now, both in terms of the moral issues being weighted, and because Roe itself is a festering cancer that has done incalculable damage to our system of government. Democrats have been corroding the SC appointment process for decades, from Bork onwards, in the name of defending Roe at all costs, despite it being a fundamentally wrong decision. The only way to even have a chance at healing the damage is to tear Roe out by the roots and return the debate to the legislative arena, where it always should have been.

Here:

Ok, my two cents.

First off, let us summarize what the two fringes of the debate are saying, with the left "fringe" now being mainstreamed.

Leftards: Hurr, durr, abortion is a human right, even if the fetus can be viable out of the womb.

Rightwingers: Abortion is always evil,even if there are deformities, incest, and danger to mother and child.

The rightwing opinion is, of course, universally despised while the far left one is lionized, in no small part because it fits well with the Western liberal no consequences libertine culture while making the neoliberals happy because that keeps social spending for things like child care and maternity leaves down and keeps the feminine wage slaves working.

There are problems with both points of view, and frankly I am right of center on the issue.

Abortions in case of danger to the mother's life or if the fetus is non-viable or afflicted with some debilitating disease like down syndrome should IMHO be permitted.
Incest is disgusting, dangerous from a purely genetic standpoint, and making a woman carry a product of that, especially if it is related to rape, is pretty vile in my book.

So, those are the situations when I am fine with abortion and the benefits to society and the individuals involved are obvious in those cases.

In general though, we should have restrictions up to a particular stage of pregnancy, like with the heartbeat thing, however I think that brain activity should be the deciding factor.

Now, on to the social negatives that abortion brings:

First off, it decreases the population over time, which erodes the tax base.On a purely personal level, all those spinsters and chads that pumped and dumped them will probably die alone, in a nursing home if they are lucky, probably impoverished and without anyone giving a damn about them.With economic growth and social cohesion being impacted.

Another problem is that on demand abortion helps proliferate this no consequence culture and stimulates dangerous, promiscuous behavior subsidized by the taxpayer.I see no reason why I should subsidize the stupidity of instathots and sex and the city larpers that are too cheap and dumb to make their latest one night pumper put on a condom, especially since abortions and hormonal contraceptives and morning after pills do not prevent the spread of AIDS and other venereal diseases.

 

[Abhorsen]

So even the idea of RvW being overturned, as it should be, is enough to make you vote blue?

Wow.

No, I'm fine with RvW being overturned. I'm actually very happy about it. Only reason I'm not jumping for joy is fear of the midterms. @Rocinante describes my position accurately.

Again, this is something I really want to be wrong about, I'm not a blackpill kinda person, but I just don't trust victories for some reason.

Maybe I'm just looking at how gay marriage worked out for the Dems? They got it, then 5 years later the LGBTQrazies are making them lose. I really don't know.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

No, I'm fine with RvW being overturned. I'm actually very happy about it. Only reason I'm not jumping for joy is fear of the midterms. @Rocinante describes my position accurately.

Again, this is something I really want to be wrong about, I'm not a blackpill kinda person, but I just don't trust victories for some reason.

Maybe I'm just looking at how gay marriage worked out for the Dems? They got it, then 5 years later the LGBTQrazies are making them lose. I really don't know.

I think the US has far too many other massive problems for this to be a make or break.

 

[The Original Sixth]

No, I'm fine with RvW being overturned. I'm actually very happy about it. Only reason I'm not jumping for joy is fear of the midterms. @Rocinante describes my position accurately.

Again, this is something I really want to be wrong about, I'm not a blackpill kinda person, but I just don't trust victories for some reason.

Maybe I'm just looking at how gay marriage worked out for the Dems? They got it, then 5 years later the LGBTQrazies are making them lose. I really don't know.

All things considered, I think it's too early to tell how this will affect the mid-terms.

First, the Democrats outnumber the Republicans because it's a larger coalition. So if the entire Democratic party gets fired up over this and turns out to vote in the fall, then expect a heavy loss for Republicans or at least no victories. If on the other hand, the Democrats face internal resistance from Hispanic and Black voters, then they'll probably flop. Or if most states pass their own laws, thus removing the need for them to churn out in large numbers.

We're still a long way off from the mid-terms. And with wheat and other Ukraine and Russian goods about to become scarce in the market, we're going to see some blowback.

 

[Agent23]

All things considered, I think it's too early to tell how this will affect the mid-terms.

First, the Democrats outnumber the Republicans because it's a larger coalition. So if the entire Democratic party gets fired up over this and turns out to vote in the fall, then expect a heavy loss for Republicans or at least no victories. If on the other hand, the Democrats face internal resistance from Hispanic and Black voters, then they'll probably flop. Or if most states pass their own laws, thus removing the need for them to churn out in large numbers.

We're still a long way off from the mid-terms. And with wheat and other Ukraine and Russian goods about to become scarce in the market, we're going to see some blowback.

Do the Latinos and inner city black males and black churches give a shit about abortion, though?
They must be denied the chance to turn this into an abortion referendum, they must be hammered on inflation, energy policy, porous borders, and Biden being nuts and his son being a pervert influence peddler.

 

[The Original Sixth]

Do the Latinos and inner city black males and black churches give a shit about abortion, though?
They must be denied the chance to turn this into an abortion referendum, they must be hammered on inflation, energy policy, porous borders, and Biden being nuts and his son being a pervert influence peddler.

That's the question. If they don't care, they won't mobilize for the Democrats and the Republicans will win. If they do care, then they'll mobilize and the Republicans are likely to lose. We'll see in the coming months how it resonates with various voting blocs. My guess is that the Democrats are probably going to have a hard time. Blacks and Hispanic tend to be more conservative socially, but liberal economically.

Which may explain the panic. If the only people who are really upset are white liberals, that's not going to be enough to rally them. So if that is the case and I'm a Democrat politician, my best option is to stir up ethnic hate to get the Black voting bloc to show for the mid-terms, then have my fellow Democrats vote the way I want them to.

 

[Bigking321]

First, the Democrats outnumber the Republicans because it's a larger coalition.

I'd say this isn't true. They've been doing everything they can to drive off everyone that not a far left radical.

The polling has never been better for Republicans. And if abortion was the single issue a voter cares about then they weren't gonna vote Republican anyway.

If the left goes insane over this and riot all summer (and of course they will) they are only going to drive away normal people even more.

 

[The Original Sixth]

I'd say this isn't true. They've been doing everything they can to drive off everyone that not a far left radical.

The polling has never been better for Republicans. And if abortion was the single issue a voter cares about then they weren't gonna vote Republican anyway.

If the left goes insane over this and riot all summer (and of course they will) they are only going to drive away normal people even more.

That happens regardless. The Democratic coalition has had this issue for decades. There are only two ways a Democrat President can win. Either they're so charismatic that everyone ignores the actual issues between the voting blocs OR the voting blocs hate the opposition so much, they all turn up anyway.

Rioting will probably backfire, so I don't think it will be a top-bottom decision. I'll be interested to see how that shakes out if it happens.

 

[Sobek]

The Democrats USED to outnumber the Republicans as a larger coalition. They lost that completely in 2020, which is why they resorted to fraud to win the election.

Also, like many people pointed out, the over hype of Abortion and the laser focus on it will sour many people in the center more worried about inflation, gas prices and economic hardships. They will see the DNC leaders all going all in on a issue most people have been already soured over to pander to a extremely loud minority who thinks of abortion not as a medical procedure a woman may need once in her life but as a symbol of feminism and victory to be proud of which most people (especially women) find creepy.

 

[S'task]

The Uniparty, cultural Marxism, the economy, the gaping chest-wound that is your porous border, the trashfire that is US foreign policy, RUNAWAY INFLATION, crony capitalism, men's rights issues, big, profligate government that spends like a drunken sailor, FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

Feel free to check out the Abortion thread to see my opinion on the abortion thing, though.
It is, as is firearms control, the main tool of the Uniparty to divert attention from its bullshit.

. . . Abortion is a major institution OF the uniparty though. One thing that has been consistent is the Uniparty's support for legal abortion, with the only allowable defection/limit being on if Federal money was allowed to be spent on it or not. You can see that in how they constantly use the international institutions to push abortion on countries even when those country's don't want them.

Getting Roe overturned, despite the elites objections, is a MASSIVE blow to their authority and worldview. Instead of the Abortion Debate being settled by the Elites, it will be settled by the Populous. It would also show that there is at least one Institution in the US that ISN'T entirely captured by them, which is why there is so much of the core Democrats who are screeching about packing the court and overturning the filibuster so they can no longer be held back by those few politicians whom are not part of that mess.

I also feel the need to point out: Cultural Marxism started out with abortion. Abortion, and all the language around it, was the proving ground for the linguistic games the left plays. "Pro-Choice" "Women's Rights" pretending the "science" says something that it doesn't while accusing the other side of being "unscientific"... these were ALL things developed and testbedded in the Abortion debate.

The entire libertine morality system pushed by the "uniparty" as you call it, is founded on the idea of no-consequence sex. No-consequence sex is founded in abortion and the assurance of Roe that nowhere in the country can escape its reach.

Roe is one of the foundational cornerstones of the modern left and its project. Most folks know that subconciously which is why the sheer outrage. While it won't be that everything collapses with the fall of Roe, it is a massive change to the entire situation that nobody on the left really wants to see happen.

 

[Agent23]

. . . Abortion is a major institution OF the uniparty though. One thing that has been consistent is the Uniparty's support for legal abortion, with the only allowable defection/limit being on if Federal money was allowed to be spent on it or not. You can see that in how they constantly use the international institutions to push abortion on countries even when those country's don't want them.

Getting Roe overturned, despite the elites objections, is a MASSIVE blow to their authority and worldview. Instead of the Abortion Debate being settled by the Elites, it will be settled by the Populous. It would also show that there is at least one Institution in the US that ISN'T entirely captured by them, which is why there is so much of the core Democrats who are screeching about packing the court and overturning the filibuster so they can no longer be held back by those few politicians whom are not part of that mess.

I also feel the need to point out: Cultural Marxism started out with abortion. Abortion, and all the language around it, was the proving ground for the linguistic games the left plays. "Pro-Choice" "Women's Rights" pretending the "science" says something that it doesn't while accusing the other side of being "unscientific"... these were ALL things developed and testbedded in the Abortion debate.

The entire libertine morality system pushed by the "uniparty" as you call it, is founded on the idea of no-consequence sex. No-consequence sex is founded in abortion and the assurance of Roe that nowhere in the country can escape its reach.

Roe is one of the foundational cornerstones of the modern left and its project. Most folks know that subconciously which is why the sheer outrage. While it won't be that everything collapses with the fall of Roe, it is a massive change to the entire situation that nobody on the left really wants to see happen.

Perhaps, so one way to preempt them is to have a referendum, preferably scheduled for after the 2024 presidential elections.

 

[Airedale260]

It's also going to cost the right though. Realistically, this could seriously stop the red wave. Nothing will motivate democratic voters more. And there are a fair number of people who will be concerned about this who would have voted red.

Oh, the Democrats will *try* to play this card, but the problem is it falls apart the moment someone points out "Uh, it doesn't actually ban abortion, it just returns it to the states and gives them the power to hash it out on their own."

The reason for this is that it's not like, say, gay marriage where (whatever one might think of it), it ultimately only affects the couple. Abortion involves a baby's life being ended. And so that is why this becomes a political issue.

And honestly, the pro-life activists I've heard have freely acknowledged this is the "easy" part. Now comes the fighting over limitations, support for the mothers and children, etc.

But until and unless Roe is overturned, that discussion *can't* happen.

I don’t know how accurate this leak will end up being, but I will say this.

A pro-choice New Yorker has done more for the pro-life movement than any other Republican has in the last 50 years

In all fairness, as much as I have issues with Trump, I will freely give him credit for the SCOTUS picks, and especially for sticking with Kavanaugh even after the hit jobs on him.

And yes, to McConnell, too (yes I hear the boos) for holding open the vacancy over Scalia's death until after the 2016 election.

There are some indications that it was clerk who works for Sotomayor, but nothing concrete yet. As it usually goes in these matters, it is unlikely the person will be punished.

Honestly, I expected a move like this closer to midterms.

Well, the decision would be announced come June or July (probably June so as to avoid something like this), so they may have figured it was now-or-never if a final vote on the decision is in the very near future.

If it was a clerk (I know there was suspicion over one in particular for a prior Politico connection), they just committed the dumbest form of career suicide. Maybe they figure it's worth it, and will go become an analyst on CNN+...oh wait.

Well. Maybe an activist of some kind, but the truth is, given the assault on the idea of impartial law and justice, confidentiality, etc? This person is going to be pretty much barred from *any* job that requires being able to keep secrets. To say nothing of the potential jail time and a felony conviction...

 

[Sobek]

Babe wake up Libs of Tik Tok made a compilation

 

[Carrot of Truth]

Babe wake up Libs of Tik Tok made a compilation

Someone should inform these women that you first have to have sex before being able to have an abortion.