Anime & Manga RWBY General discussion thread.

Abhorsen

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Yeah, the Bumblebee group ruined a lot.
I don't mind the ship, but honestly didn't care too much either (honestly I gave up after around the fall of Beacon)? I thought the big problem with Blake's character wasn't the relationship with Yang, but the worldbuilding around faunus racism.

Quite bluntly, if your going to have a violent revolutionary terrorist group that large, you are going to need a ton more racism to justify it. And there simply wasn't that. Weiss was completely reasonable because "White Fang killed my family", and there wasn't much else.


But then I could totally see there being a hypertoxic fandom around a character/ship. I remember something similar happened to Steven Universe. Sure, it was woke, but oh god it had nothing on the toxicity of the fandom.
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker
I don't mind the ship, but honestly didn't care too much either (honestly I gave up after around the fall of Beacon)? I thought the big problem with Blake's character wasn't the relationship with Yang, but the worldbuilding around faunus racism.

Quite bluntly, if your going to have a violent revolutionary terrorist group that large, you are going to need a ton more racism to justify it. And there simply wasn't that. Weiss was completely reasonable because "White Fang killed my family", and there wasn't much else.
Either that, or you need to explore why the violent revolutionary terrorist group exists, even though the racism they claim as justification does not; which, now that I think of it, could have paralleled what's been happening in the real world quite nicely.
 

Circle of Willis

Well-known member
I don't mind the ship, but honestly didn't care too much either (honestly I gave up after around the fall of Beacon)? I thought the big problem with Blake's character wasn't the relationship with Yang, but the worldbuilding around faunus racism.

Quite bluntly, if your going to have a violent revolutionary terrorist group that large, you are going to need a ton more racism to justify it. And there simply wasn't that. Weiss was completely reasonable because "White Fang killed my family", and there wasn't much else.


But then I could totally see there being a hypertoxic fandom around a character/ship. I remember something similar happened to Steven Universe. Sure, it was woke, but oh god it had nothing on the toxicity of the fandom.

Either that, or you need to explore why the violent revolutionary terrorist group exists, even though the racism they claim as justification does not; which, now that I think of it, could have paralleled what's been happening in the real world quite nicely.
As far as Bumblebee goes, I think the problem was with both the ship itself (in that it jammed together two of the most personality-incompatible members of Team RWBY, the conflict-averse Blake who's supposed to have escaped an abusive relationship with another hothead and is prone to running from her problems + the temperamental, increasingly violent Yang who has abandonment issues and who Blake abandoned once already) and with how it warped the show & other characters around itself. It had a weak foundation that could have been improved on by better or even just average writers, but how CRWBY handled it made it far, far worse than it should have been even with such weak & unstable foundations.

The former could have been made to work with extensive character development to get the component characters to evolve past their flaws, but this never happened and arguably would have taken up far too much time (and the mad rush to Bumblebee already ate up too much of their screentime together as is). I don't think any ship among Team RWBY would have been a good idea because as the Bees demonstrated amply it throws the team dynamics out of whack, breaking it down from a team of four into one pair of lovers who will then do almost nothing with the non-lovers, but this fundamental incompatibility and the steps necessary to address it was not a problem with White Rose (Ruby x Weiss), Monochrome (Blake x Weiss), Freezerburn (Yang x Weiss) or even Ladybug (Blake x Ruby, who funny enough interact the least out of all combinations of the titular four), at least not the same extent.

The latter...well. Black Sun, a ship with far more organic buildup, was thrown to the wayside and Sun (a cool character in his own right) benched pretty much immediately after he got Blake's first on-screen kiss to clear the path for the Bees. Adam was turned from a potentially interesting revolutionary leader with a unique iaijutsu-based fighting style and who was originally described as Blake's mentor into a cringe psychotic incel who supposedly abused Blake in a past romantic relationship. Even the component characters were ruined, Yang was reduced to a caricature of her old self and Blake was left with literally no arc to justify her continued presence in the story since the White Fang stuff was wrapped up with Adam's death. For that matter Yang's PTSD was dealt with unnaturally quickly and I don't even remember how her dealing with her abandonment issues & Blake's return after abandoning her was dealt with at all, if it was even done on screen in the first place (RT liked to do that, resolving tough conversations that they didn't know how to write off-screen, it apparently happened with Penny's final death and Jaune's role in it in V9 too).

Bumblebee really felt like a relationship based on nothing beyond physical attraction, ie. a fan author who thinks these two would look hot to each other and never really broadens their concept from that, and once it was done it left a bunch of other characters in ruins (including the components themselves), in particular the equivalent of the author's waifu after she gets together with the OC in a bad self-insert fic - now she's just eye candy who doesn't do anything and doesn't really have anything to do in the story anymore, besides coming up every now & then to remind the audience that she's together with said OC. And this would have been bad enough, but the damage Bumblebee caused wasn't contained to itself, it was a cancer that actively ruined adjacent characters and story arcs. Plus the fans were rabid enough to cause problems out-of-show for anyone who disagreed that it was anything less than the best thing since sliced bread (hence why they even got an unflattering nickname for it, 'Wasps').

As to the WF thing, honestly, I think RT was just too cowardly to try going any further. If they were to attempt any serious depiction of racism within their work around 2015-16 onward when modern intersectional BS was really starting to pick up steam, they would probably get annihilated by that 'depiction = endorsement!' crowd of rabid wokies they were cultivating, and they knew it. Worse still if they tried to depict the White Fang as terrorists with no redeeming virtues, then they'd get hit with the 'minorities can't be evil you unironic racists!' ax instead.

The result is the really wishy-washy depiction we got where we're told the White Fang are supposed racial revolutionaries in a Black Panther vein, but no actual racial injustice more serious than Cardin pulling on Velvet's ears can be shown. What makes it really funny & strange though is that not only did they show that Adam got an SDC brand on his face (only for it to then amount to nothing in-story, it's not even seen by Weiss! Imagine how she might have reacted to the realization that her enemy was scarred over his eyes by her father's indirect will just like she was, or how this would affect her opinion on the WF vs. SDC struggle), but Miles Luna actually implied he deserved it in the Volume 7 commentary.

Miles: Mhm. Man yeah, this was- we had to cut a lot of stuff out of this episode. I think we talk a little bit about it later in 6 so I won't get to deep into it now but there was a bunch of things that we kind of still needed to touch on from the previous volume. Obviously, Yang and Blake had a really traumatic event that they went through together that, you know had this idea that the SDC, you know, brands and labels a lot of their cargo and stuff and this idea that, although you know it's- we never say it so I guess technically it's not canon or whatever but.. We had this idea that, you know Adam, as a terrible of a person as he was, when we was younger, potentially got into an argument with someone at an SDC place and someone grabbed a brand and just let him have it and that lead to the injury that we saw on his face in volume 6. So we wanted to be very sure to plaster the SDC logo all over this area, to really put that in the forefront of Blake's mind and Yang is kind of the only person that notices. Setup a conversation for them later.
Which, wow, OK. I've said as much before but considering that the WF were intended as an analogy for the Black Panthers early on, I'm not sure you could get away with joking (much less seriously suggesting) that like, Fred Hampton or Huey Newton actually deserved to be mauled by police dogs when they were 12 even in the less politically correct & cancel-happy 2000s-early '10s.

For what it's worth, I don't think Adam and the White Fang would have been treated this terribly if Monty had lived. At the very least, IIRC Monty was very interested in the iaido fighting style which he used for Adam and had no intention of retconning him into Blake's ex-boyfriend when he had first described the character as her mentor, that was all on Miles/Kerry and quite possibly Arryn/Barbara (the VAs for Blake/Yang respectively). He was also more strongly opinionated than Miles/Kerry I feel, what with him bulldozing them to cram more scenes & characters in based on his whims, and more likely to stick to his guns under outside pressure. I don't know if he could have handled the racial angle with more grace than the writers did but I imagine he would at least actually try, and it would certainly be very difficult to cock things up harder than they did anyway.
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker
Which, wow, OK. I've said as much before but considering that the WF were intended as an analogy for the Black Panthers early on, I'm not sure you could get away with joking (much less seriously suggesting) that like, Fred Hampton or Huey Newton actually deserved to be mauled by police dogs when they were 12 even in the less politically correct & cancel-happy 2000s-early '10s.
You could if the Woke cult decided they were heretics, and revoked their placement on the Progressive Stack; thereby making them valid targets.
 

DarthOne

☦️
it-looks-like-rwby-writers-will-still-be-involved-in-rwby-v0-z5pjc6n9t0nc1.png



While this might not look encouraging for the future, note that this doesn't actually mean that anyone who picks up RWBY has to actually listen to them.

They'll hand over all of their notes and talk with the new owners (if one materializes), but there is a distinct lack of mention for cooperation or a specific clause for keeping them on.

The new owners could smile, thank them, and promptly kick their asses to the curb, burn their notes and do their own thing.


All that said, I honestly feel Kerry is lying through his teeth every time he talks about future plan for RWBY. Or is at least in denial. I don't see anyone buying the IP and just bringing everyone on board to finish Vol 10. Perhaps Crunchyroll, but it's unlikely.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
it-looks-like-rwby-writers-will-still-be-involved-in-rwby-v0-z5pjc6n9t0nc1.png



While this might not look encouraging for the future, note that this doesn't actually mean that anyone who picks up RWBY has to actually listen to them.

They'll hand over all of their notes and talk with the new owners (if one materializes), but there is a distinct lack of mention for cooperation or a specific clause for keeping them on.

The new owners could smile, thank them, and promptly kick their asses to the curb, burn their notes and do their own thing.


All that said, I honestly feel Kerry is lying through his teeth every time he talks about future plan for RWBY. Or is at least in denial. I don't see anyone buying the IP and just bringing everyone on board to finish Vol 10. Perhaps Crunchyroll, but it's unlikely.
Honestly? It's up in the air.
We will know when we know ow.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
it-looks-like-rwby-writers-will-still-be-involved-in-rwby-v0-z5pjc6n9t0nc1.png



While this might not look encouraging for the future, note that this doesn't actually mean that anyone who picks up RWBY has to actually listen to them.

They'll hand over all of their notes and talk with the new owners (if one materializes), but there is a distinct lack of mention for cooperation or a specific clause for keeping them on.

The new owners could smile, thank them, and promptly kick their asses to the curb, burn their notes and do their own thing.


All that said, I honestly feel Kerry is lying through his teeth every time he talks about future plan for RWBY. Or is at least in denial. I don't see anyone buying the IP and just bringing everyone on board to finish Vol 10. Perhaps Crunchyroll, but it's unlikely.
Honestly? It's up in the air.
We will know when we know ow.
I think that RWBY may end up folded into the DCEU, or bought outright by SHAFT, depending on which crossover work ends up with more marketability/IP seniority.

RWBY won't die here, but who ends up with it will depend on a lot of factors.

I think the DCEU would work fine for it, Remnant as another world in the DCEU is very easy to pull off.
 

DarthOne

☦️
I think that RWBY may end up folded into the DCEU, or bought outright by SHAFT, depending on which crossover work ends up with more marketability/IP seniority.

RWBY won't die here, but who ends up with it will depend on a lot of factors.

I think the DCEU would work fine for it, Remnant as another world in the DCEU is very easy to pull off.

I am not so sure. I don’t think they’d see it as being worth their time to staple another failing franchise onto their already sinking one.
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker
I think that RWBY may end up folded into the DCEU, or bought outright by SHAFT, depending on which crossover work ends up with more marketability/IP seniority.

RWBY won't die here, but who ends up with it will depend on a lot of factors.

I think the DCEU would work fine for it, Remnant as another world in the DCEU is very easy to pull off.
Why would they want to fold RWBY into the DCEU though?
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Why would they want to fold RWBY into the DCEU though?
Help the DCEU expand it's fan base and IP offerings, now and into the future.

Also because then if they do not want it later, they can sell it to someone else, or just sit on it.

However, from what I've heard Studio Shaft is also interested in RWBY after the success of Ice Queendom. So if DC doesn't take it, SHAFT probably will.
 

Circle of Willis

Well-known member
it-looks-like-rwby-writers-will-still-be-involved-in-rwby-v0-z5pjc6n9t0nc1.png



While this might not look encouraging for the future, note that this doesn't actually mean that anyone who picks up RWBY has to actually listen to them.

They'll hand over all of their notes and talk with the new owners (if one materializes), but there is a distinct lack of mention for cooperation or a specific clause for keeping them on.

The new owners could smile, thank them, and promptly kick their asses to the curb, burn their notes and do their own thing.


All that said, I honestly feel Kerry is lying through his teeth every time he talks about future plan for RWBY. Or is at least in denial. I don't see anyone buying the IP and just bringing everyone on board to finish Vol 10. Perhaps Crunchyroll, but it's unlikely.
Yeah, I don't see that happening at all. Volume 10 was never greenlit, and now RT itself is dead, precisely because they had blown all their chances and could never find 'potential partners' to invest in it & keep them afloat any longer - not Crunchyroll, not anyone else. If somebody were to buy the RWBY IP from Warner, the chances that they'd keep the old team on board or probably even consult with them are nil IMO, maybe they could have a chance if they had a decent reputation as creatives & professionals but that has definitely not been the case for years at this point. Crunchy, the Japanese, DillonGoo Studios, etc. will all bring their own teams and ideas to the table and I can't see any of them being interested in picking up where CRWBY left off, especially since there's no way V10 can even be the end of RWBY unless it's the most rushed and unsatisfying ending since GoT; why spend millions on acquiring a new property just to shackle yourself to the team & core story that ran it into the bedrock in the first place? Much easier to just reboot. I don't even see RWBY surviving as part of DC either, apparently those Justice League crossovers bombed (and from the timing, in hindsight I'd imagine their bombing was the last straw for Zaslav which got him to can RT entirely).

RT have burned too many bridges with their prospective partners and generated a reputation for controversy at best to have any role in RWBY going forward (assuming it doesn't just get left in a vault to languish forevermore by WBD) IMO. Their dirty laundry's come to light over the past couple years and it's going to represent not just a financial drain but also a PR nightmare for any sensible company. Even bringing back a few of the VAs, who are the most likely to get to reprise their role in any future RWBY 2.0 due to their high profile, is dicey depending on who gets the IP - if it's the Japanese they won't have forgotten Arryn Zech picking a very public fight with SHAFT's Tow Ubukata & dredging up his allegation of domestic abuse for no real reason (a blacklist-worthy offense in the anime industry and for good reason), and if it's Dillon & Shane, well. CRWBY burned their bridges, poisoned the streams below and raised up yuge not-so-beautiful walls at the ends with those two through their ill-treatment of them a very, very long time ago.

Nah, this frankly this just seems like pure cope from Kerry, nothing more. He himself probably knows it's never actually going to happen, if RT had a chance of pulling off what he claims they're trying to do they wouldn't be in this position in the first place.
 

Free-Stater 101

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I think ultimately a problem with RWBY was one inherent to Rooster Teeth itself was that the show was both blessed and cursed with writers being too invested in listening to fans opinions on the direction of the show which isn't the best way to run a show, a course must be set and stuck too popularity be damned.

On the writing side of things, I feel the biggest killer to series was some narrative choices made at the end of Volume 3 and everything in Volume 4. Specifically concerning how RNJR arbitrarily leaves immediately to go to Mistral to hunt down Cinder and co.

If you were to ask me to personally rewrite it at least half of Volume 4 should have followed RNJR attempting to stabilize the situation in Vale to display just how bad things have gotten without Beacon and just how much a threat Grimm can be amidst the uncertainty prevailing after the fall with the same general atmosphere as the end of Volume 3 hanging over them.

The protagonist also needed to process the huge number of personal issues they possess, ranging from Blake leaving, to Pyrrha death, to Yang losing an arm to anger that Cinder and co did this despite at least superficially appearing to be friendly good acquaintances and we the audience needed that to be seen as being felt by them and formulated into some resolve even if they aren't all completely solved.

Then at the halfway mark to the end of the volume when things seem more stable have Goodwitch arrange for a Bullhead to transport them to Mistral to try to re-establish a more permanent connection comm wise and investigate into Beacons attackers.

The problem with Volume 4 as we got it was that it was meant to be The Prisoner of Azkaban of the series where the world became more scarier, serious and wider, and things stepped up in general, they messed that up completely tone wise however.
 
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ATP

Well-known member
Man I will be honest the last scene of rwby being the back shot of the justice league asses will never not make me laugh

Man more funny is the fact that the porn not only was more popular but also outlived it was also funny
They made porn out of it? wait,rule 37...or maybe 34? sure,they must made porn about it....
 

Circle of Willis

Well-known member
I think ultimately a problem with RWBY was one inherent to Rooster Teeth itself was that the show was both blessed and cursed with writers being too invested in listening to fans opinions on the direction of the show which isn't the best way to run a show, a course must be set and stuck too popularity be damned.

On the writing side of things, I feel the biggest killer to series was some narrative choices made at the end of Volume 3 and everything in Volume 4. Specifically concerning how RNJR arbitrarily leaves immediately to go to Mistral to hunt down Cinder and co.

If you were to ask me to personally rewrite it at least half of Volume 4 should have followed RNJR attempting to stabilize the situation in Vale to display just how bad things have gotten without Beacon and just how much a threat Grimm can be amidst the uncertainty prevailing after the fall with the same general atmosphere as the end of Volume 3 hanging over them.

The protagonist also needed to process the huge number of personal issues they possess, ranging from Blake leaving, to Pyrrha death, to Yang losing an arm to anger that Cinder and co did this despite at least superficially appearing to be friendly good acquaintances and we the audience needed that to be seen as being felt by them and formulated into some resolve even if they aren't all completely solved.

Then at the halfway mark to the end of the volume when things seem more stable have Goodwitch arrange for a Bullhead to transport them to Mistral to try to re-establish a more permanent connection comm wise and investigate into Beacons attackers.

The problem with Volume 4 as we got it was that it was meant to be The Prisoner of Azkaban of the series where the world became more scarier, serious and wider, and things stepped up in general, they messed that up completely tone wise however.
That's 100% true. Among the many lessons it can impart about how not to write/produce a series, I think it's safe to say that 'this is what happens if you pander excessively to the loud minority among your fans, who know what they want but don't really care about how to get there or if it even makes any sense' is one of them. And I believe it's also safe to say that at least in certain aspects, most glaringly Bumblebee, RWBY stopped being CRWBY's show and became FNDM's show instead a very long time ago, much to its detriment. I've seen screencaps of these same sorts demanding on Twitter or Reddit that any attempt to revive RWBY in the future must include those writers who caved to their demands and/or that it doesn't involve Shane because they still think he's evil for criticizing RT, which, heh. Frankly if they get so mad(ly entitled) as to leave the fandom over such things (which they realistically would have no power over anyway) then that's a benefit to RWBY's fortunes, not a drawback.

As far as how to write a RWBY revival goes, personally my preference is just to go back to and staying in Beacon. Prioritize the flashy fight scenes the show was originally best known for, further focus on character development and the building of relationships (platonic or otherwise) among the members of Teams RWBY and JNPR rather than any overarching 'save the world' plot, engage in episodic adventures vs. Grimm or occasionally non-Grimm threats like Roman's crew and the White Fang, and worldbuild through history/civics classes rather than non-show side materials. Basically, the stuff people were watching & expecting back when RWBY was starting to really take off with the four trailers and V1-2.

Every rival team at Beacon should be firmly established as a contrast to RWBY in some regard and an obstacle which will force them to improve aspects of the team to overcome: like, JNPR as friendly rivals and contrasts to RWBY who will force the latter to improve their coordination & teamwork (an idea I've floated before is making Pyrrha/Jaune childhood friends like Ren/Nora, making the lengths to which Pyrrha will go to cover for Jaune make much more sense and shaping the entire team into a starker contrast to RWBY, which is made up of strangers who don't get along as well from the get-go). CRDL as the less friendly rivals whose antagonism pushes RWBY & Jaune to improve their brute strength & fighting instincts so they can finally get back at those guys. CFVY as the upperclassmen who will test all the skills they've learned up to the point where the two come to blows. Cinder's crew should come in as a late-show threat surpassing Roman & Neo once RWBY have made it definitively clear that the latter are no longer a sufficient challenge for them in their senior year (perhaps not even showing up at all until Roman/Neo are firmly put away behind bars after a major 2nd/3rd season-end battle), and so on.

Now maybe this would not necessarily lend itself to a long series without getting boring, but that is fine IMO. Every good story has to end at some point and I'd rather RWBY end on a happy note as a fairly lighthearted, 4-5 season magical school/action series than what we actually got with the series in RT's hands. The 'what happens with RWBY after Beacon' question can still be answered in short animated episodes, stories, etc. detailing their various post-graduation adventures as Huntresses from time to time. Or alternatively if the new creators are adamant about still taking a turn towards a grander, darker plot - push that stuff back a ways in favor of massively fleshing out Beacon and the adventures therein for more than 3 seasons at first, maybe even have RWBY & JNPR disrupt semi-major schemes on the part of the villains up to & including a premature attempt to bring about the Fall, then have the Fall of Beacon/Vale happen around the time when Team RWBY are supposed to graduate.

That way RWBY can go fight Salem, Cinder, etc. as mature licensed Huntresses with enough significant achievements under their belt to be taken seriously by the world at large, while Beacon will have left enough memories and enough of a shadow as to serve as a really powerful motivator to want to see the villains defeated both in- and out-of-universe. (I've said it before and I'll say it again, it never sat well with me how Team RWBY was supposed to carry the weight of the world on their shoulders and everyone treated them like the main characters despite their literally being a bunch of half-trained non-Huntresses with nothing particularly special about them - even Ruby's Silver Eyes which I would've thought would be what set them apart from the rest didn't stay relevant for long - it was like everyone else just subconsciously knew they were in a show called RWBY and acted accordingly.) The stuff about the Gods and Relics shouldn't be left in, they just unnecessarily overcomplicate the scant worldbuilding and an already-busy plot juggling Ozma/Salem + the Maidens without actually improving either (quite the contrary IMO).
 

Shadow

Member
They made porn out of it? wait,rule 37...or maybe 34? sure,they must made porn about it....
Really you expected them not to make porn of them

This aint she ra the woman had breast so they totally would make porn of it
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
It at one point was beating out MLP for amount of porn made from it.
 

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