Anime & Manga RWBY General discussion thread.
- Thread starter Zachowon
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f1onagher
Well-known member
While I'm ambivalent about RWBY's continued existence I'm certain that even if RT finally arrives at its long overdue death the fans will crowdsource a finale of some sort. I've stated this before, but whoever ends up with RWBY in the future needs to go back to season 3 or even 2 and start over, or better yet just hard restart the entire setting. RT has spent a decade digging a narrative hole they can't climb out of and any future stewards of the property would be well served to just burn it down and start over.
But now that I know season 10 isn't under way I'm going to go mine some salt. If y'all will excuse me.
But now that I know season 10 isn't under way I'm going to go mine some salt. If y'all will excuse me.
Could have been. We’ll probably never know, even assuming whatever plans and ideas for the show still exit and were not literally tossed in the trash.
I mean his brother got invovled in his place to q degree and the creators said they were following his ideas for the forst ten volumes
Circle of Willis
Well-known member
I think pretty much everyone who was ever invested in RWBY would agree, even if they've become disillusioned with the show/RT in general now (that most certainly includes myself). By Oum's own admission he wasn't a good writer, hence why Miles Luna & Kerry Shawcross were brought on (nevermind that ironically they proved to be much worse than whatever he could've come up with himself), but I doubt many would argue that the seasons produced while he was still alive weren't downright oozing with passion & fun that the later volumes lacked, despite being produced on comparatively shoestring budgets.
As I've made clear before I absolutely do not believe CRWBY when they insist they're still following Oum's vision, especially not after the latest season - he in no way gave the impression of being the sort of creator who'd ever come up with a pointless filler season whose core messages boil down to 'Suicide is badass' and 'Hey gays, buy our merch and subscribe to Zech & Dunkelman's Onlyfans while you're at it'. RT/CRWBY also have a very well established and publicized history of lying to not just their fans but also each other and their own workers, as evidenced by scandals like their repeated abuse of said staff, screwing over Shane Newville & Sheena Oum right after Monty's corpse turned cold, and Gray Haddock embezzling funds from other parts of the company to produce Gen:Lock (in the process contributing to Nomad of Nowhere's death and worsening working conditions at RT). We may never really know what his long-term plans for RWBY were (if they existed at all) but I think we can safely guess that it definitely wasn't what we've been getting for the last couple seasons. I would daresay, at a somewhat educated guess, that:
1. The girls would've adventured through Vacuo before Atlas, which made more sense as the final kingdom for them to explore since its strength makes it the best place to have a final confrontation with Salem and it's critical to the conclusion of the long-term arcs of Weiss & Blake (taking over & reforming the SDC and the White Fang/Faunus rights respectively), who are basically the only half of Team RWBY to have had long-term arcs at all in V1-3;
2. Bumblebee would never have been a thing and Black Sun would still be, since a lot of the groundwork for the latter was laid out in the early seasons and it was only fully discarded several seasons after his death;
3. As a corollary to the above, Adam would not have been turned into a loser ex-boyfriend whose SDC scar doesn't even matter and is laughed off as something he probably deserved by the writers (which is honestly hilarious seeing how the White Fang were supposed to be Remnant's Black Panther stand-in, I'm pretty sure you couldn't get away with joking that Huey Newton deserved to get police dogs set on him as a kid or w/e even in 2015, much less today) and the WF would've stayed relevant for longer;
4. Raven would have been involved a LOT more than she was, since IIRC she was Monty's waifu among the RWBY cast and he fought hard against the rest of CRWBY/RT to include the V2 stinger featuring her, only for it to then handwaved off as a dream by CRWBY afterward.
Ah well, all that's long gone now. Not much anyone can do about it unfortunately. But I maintain that the end of RT, if it comes to pass, is not necessarily the end for RWBY and that to be frank RWBY would be better off without RT at this point. The company ran out of passion & became chiefly interested in dragging their mediocrities out to leech money off of their corporate owners (AT&T and then Warner after it bought out the former) ages ago. I would still hope for the IP to be sold off to a studio that's competent and gives a damn (whether American or Japanese) so it can be rebooted in a couple years' time, but if this is really the end of the road, it'd at least be a more merciful end to what started and should've stayed as one man's passion project than having it continue to be puppeteered by an arm of a megacorporation that's clearly run out of both ideas & shits to give a very long time ago.
Bear Ribs
Well-known member
I have trouble believing the creators followed Monty Oum's plans for ten seasons mostly because he had a history of never actually making or sticking to a plan even ten episodes long, much less ten seasons. If they're still using his "ideas" I imagine it's more like a scribbled drawing on a napkin of an alligator girl and a note saying "uses a spiked chain, spins a lot" rather than anything like a coherent plot progression.
Circle of Willis
Well-known member
Yep, both fan speculation & leaks from Rooster Teeth ex-employees from around that time (which were also cited by Nomad's TVTropes Trivia page, that almost entirely just talks about how the show was screwed over behind the scenes to the point where the creator hated the end product and has said he doesn't recognize it) came to this same conclusion.
Doomsought
Well-known member
Yup. Every series has a formula to what make it work. RWBY was a huge focus on choreographed spectacle fights and the story elements were all just excuses for this. The biggest mistake RT made was focusing on the story elements, when they should have focused on the Animation, even if it took an entire team of animators to replicate Monty's work.
Val the Moofia Boss
Well-known member
I used to be a little disheartened that RWBY went bad after season 2 due to how unique its futuristic fantasy aesthetic with transforming weapons was. At the time. Nowadays we have more stuff that has been pivoting into that aesthetic such as later Trails games or Xenoblade, which is nice. Only thing that a current property isn't doing today are the same, high velocity and overly choreographed fight scenes. I guess the early seasons had some really natural chemistry that I haven't seen in animation since (particularly thinking of the scene at Beacon with Qrow and Ironwood bouncing off of each other in Ozpin's office).
Incorporate RWBY into the DCEU?
Ambitious, if true; Monty would be honored for his IP to end up part of that universe, I would think.
I've also seen rumors that Ruby Rose's VA is looking at the idea of becoming a vtuber, to salvage the character/do her own stuff.
Circle of Willis
Well-known member
This is the speculation (and I want to stress it's pure speculation right now, it's not like we have an internal leak from WB/RT as hard proof that it's actually happening, as we do for their other problems) as to why the JL x RWBY crossover was made at all. However I consider it exceedingly unlikely since the movie evidently didn't do well (if it did RWBY V10 should've gotten greenlit without a problem, as I said before Part 2 seems to be getting made only due to preexisting obligations akin to Velma's season 2) and it's always a creative risk to mash two previously unrelated properties into one, but that's especially of this case given the steady collapse of RWBY's and RT's popularity over the last decade. Integrating V1-3 RWBY into the DCEU would've made some positive waves perhaps, but V6-9 RWBY? Zaslav would be lucky if that just produces a net-neutral result instead of outright costing him more fans than he gains.
Maybe if Warner Bros was in a better position, they'd still take the risk. But since the last big risk they took (keeping Ezra Miller on and not axing his Flash movie as they did Batgirl even in spite of his mountain of scandals) just gave them the biggest box office bomb in the history of superhero movies, to cap off the pretty much unmitigated decade-long failure riddled with incredibly dumb decisions that was the DCEU...yeah, I doubt they'll go for it now, or for anything else but the safest of plays going forward.
Oh I and damn near everyone I know that isn't part of the FNDM agree that the whole bumblebee thing was put in there because woke and look two are lesbians!!!! Yay!!!
I truly think they were not intended to be a couple and it wasn't until..
What 5 that it could be seen they were going to become one at all?
When it was more assured Blake and Sun would be.
I truly think they were not intended to be a couple and it wasn't until..
What 5 that it could be seen they were going to become one at all?
When it was more assured Blake and Sun would be.
Val the Moofia Boss
Well-known member
None of the romances were really appealing.
StormEagle
Well-known member
Sun and Blake had some chemistry going. But they’re really the only ship that I think works.
There honestly wasn’t much in the way of cringe romance, or romance in general, in the show outside of Bumblebee.
Which I guess could be considered a plus?
There was so much wrong with everything after season three, I guess we can be thankful that they didn’t throw bad romance in as well.
Circle of Willis
Well-known member
The Blake-Sun relationship is my main indicator that CRWBY ditched Monty's vision a long time ago. No way anyone would put in all those scenes highlighting Sun flirting with Blake, meeting her parents like a real boyfriend would, making her blush and ultimately getting her first on-screen kiss (even if it was on the cheek) just to then bench him from V6 onward and throw Blake & Yang together with no buildup or even any real indicator that they liked each other romantically beforehand. The suggestion that Black Sun was never supposed to be a thing from the start and Bumblebee was is a transparent lie.
Then consider that the need to push Bumblebee was apparently so bad that it actively eroded whatever character Yang & Blake still had, to the point of killing Adam & writing the WF out of the story so there's literally no purpose to Blake still being around in the story at all outside of Bumblebee and her being the 'B' in RWBY, and yeah. What a mess, and all for a relationship between the most diametrically mismatched members of Team RWBY (a girl with anger & abandonment issues getting together with a girl whose first solution to problems, including her previous abusive relationship with another temperamental hothead, is to run away? About as romantic as matter & antimatter) that's evidently got no basis beyond physical attraction (as has often been noted by cultured artists I'm sure).
IMO most of the couples in the show were super basic, but inoffensive and could've been done reasonably well. Which I'm OK with, I don't expect a romance for the ages out of RWBY of all things, but I would be totally fine with normal healthy relationships (especially in the age of Twilight, 50 Shades and 'subversions' being all the rage in media).
Black Sun? Two Faunus teenagers with an obvious interest in one another. OK, cool.
Renora? Childhood friends -> lovers. Fine, again that's really basic and inoffensive, but that doesn't necessarily make it bad. (I will say that it's hilarious that Blake helped break them up by telling Nora she could use more space away from Ren & to be her own person, even while she lost everything interesting about herself in the mad dash to Bumblebee)
Jaune? Could've ended up with any of the remaining three main girls, or Pyrrha, or none of them and I don't think many people would complain if it was done with a modicum of competence. In fact most fans were probably expecting him to hook up with one of RWY.
Other secondary romances not involving the mains - can't really think of anything too bad or even just notable there. This is definitely a plus IMO, as you say.
Only Bumblebee really strikes me as a trash tier ship, which is too bad because it's also a massive anchor dragging its constituent characters and the show down. I firmly believe the main four girls shouldn't be in a relationship with each other because, as Bumblebee shows, it's hugely detrimental to the team dynamics (we've almost never seen Blake fight as a duo or even have a long conversation with any of the others besides Yang, for example, and Yang has also noticeably nixed her 'team mom' role in favor of constantly fussing over Blake). But if you absolutely had to have any half of RWBY get together, Monochrome (Weiss/Blake) would probably have made the most sense since their personalities gel together better than Blake/Yang or Weiss/Ruby and it's a better thematic match with what their objectives & aspirations are as characters.
See. Ship wise, all the ones you have kinds worked.
He'll, the whole Renora was basically the only ones in a relationship from the get go.
Compared to that of all the others.
Blacksun was supposed to be the canon one, but I think it was a massive heavy push from the rampant fans who basically convinced Miles and Kerry it was a good one.
See, I have met most of the cast, with Nora, Pyrrrha, and Oscar/Ozpins VAs basically only saw one or two ships being canon.
That being Renora, and Blacksun, as most of them thought that is what was supposed to happen.
Pyrrha was a Pyrrha Jaune shipper though.
Now, Weiss VA shipped her with Jaune more then anything.
He'll, most of the cast of the main 4 either didn't have a ship, did an outlandish one, or you had Barb with Bumblebee.
I think she was ALWAYS an avid supporter of Bumblebee since early on.
Zeck I have no clue.
Why is that a bad thing?