Per the article, at least 10k have pulled back so far.
Russian-Ukrainian-Polish Eternal Friendship Thread
- Thread starter Husky_Khan
- Start date
Oh so nothing major.
Could be a false thing to lower tensions before am invasion.
Who knows. I wouldn't put it past Russia
I think Putin and Biden have come to at least an interm agreement, based on this article and others I've seen. Sounds like a meeting)summit between reps of both powers is set to take place in Switzerland in the next couple months.
I think Putin extracted, or is seeking to extract, actual, on paper commitments not to push NATO any farther east.
We may be seeing bits of a phased stand down right now to show good faith on Russia's part.
Next few weeks will be telling on if the put more troops close to the Ukraine border again, or if more Russian troops are pulled back away from it.
Russia announces withdrawal of 10,000 troops after drills near Ukraine
Russia announced Saturday that more than 10,000 troops had finished month-long drills near Ukraine, amid Western accusations that Moscow was plotting an invasion of its ex-Soviet neighbour.
www.france24.com
Looks like the Germans are also trying to help reduce tensions via diplo meetings, which makes sense given they are dependent on Russian natgas for winter heating and just 'finished' the Nordstream 2 pipeline from Russia.
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Perhaps it's time for the Visgrad group to become more than an economic thing.
Eastern Europe creating a military power block independent of NATO and Russia may be the best path to easing the fears of all parties. A third option made of an existing economic alliance, instead of forcing Eastern Europe to bow to either Moscow or DC.
Of course we could also just admit NATO is a relect of a bygone era, dissolve it in favor of bilateral agreements with individual nations, and maybe realize 'containing' Russia is no longer necessary or beneficial.
Edit:
British troops ready to evacuate from Ukraine
COMMANDERS have drawn up contingency plans to pull British troops from Ukraine in the event of a Russian invasion.
www.express.co.uk
The Brits are not interested in getting into a direct fight with Russia over Ukraine, should the deescalation fail.
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Wasn't that part of what Putin wanted was for NATO to pull all forces from Ukraine?Perhaps it's time for the Visgrad group to become more than an economic thing.
Eastern Europe creating a military power block independent of NATO and Russia may be the best path to easing the fears of all parties. A third option made of an existing economic alliance, instead of forcing Eastern Europe to bow to either Moscow or DC.
Of course we could also just admit NATO is a relect of a bygone era, dissolve it in favor of bilateral agreements with individual nations, and maybe realize 'containing' Russia is no longer necessary or beneficial.
Edit:
British troops ready to evacuate from Ukraine
COMMANDERS have drawn up contingency plans to pull British troops from Ukraine in the event of a Russian invasion.
The Brits are not interested in getting into a direct fight with Russia over Ukraine, should the deescalation fail.
And Russia would never let that happen and I doint Eastern European countries could come to an agreement. @Marduk Would Poland and other Central and Eastern European countries be able to make a NATO like alliance?
And no Britain is willing too from what I last checked.
That Express article was literally posted today.
Also, there should be no NATO forces in Ukraine to begin with.
Edit: Thought today was the 27th for some reason.
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Why? If they invite us we can be there.
What's wrong with that?
Do you want bullet point, or long form?
Do you not get how every time someone invaded Russia (besides the Mongols), they did so through Belarus and Ukraine?
Thus Russia is understandably twitchy about foreign powers placing their troops and weapons in those nations.
And given how relatively close Ukraine's border is to Moscow, they are also understandably worried about first strike weapons being only a few minutes flight from their capital.
Did the US military learn nothing from how us putting MRBMs in Turkey percipitated the Cuban Missile Crisis?
And this isn't even going into how corrupt and Nazi-friendly the current gov in Kiev is.
NATO should stop trying to put first strike weapons and troops closer and closer to Moscow; it does nothing but inflame things.
If NATO dissolves?
As soon as one becomes a nuclear power or they find one to join.
No, they twitch because they get rewards for being twitchy. Like, for example, being allowed to throw their weight around in their "sphere of influence" aka not-empire.
Meanwhile, they place their troops and first strike weapons very closely to a whole bunch of major and minor countries in Eastern\Central Europe for shits and giggles - if even one of them started to act equally twitchy to Russia, Russia would have a bigger problem than NATO first strike weapons.
Imagine if Ukraine still had its own nuclear weapons....
Would it make Russians feel better that these aren't NATO nuclear weapons, and purely theoretical ones at that, as they are now?
Terthna
Professional Lurker
Fair enough; but the same is true of the United States as well. Let's not forget that the current situation in Ukraine is entirely our fault; and yet few outside of Russia seem willing to call us out on that fact. It's just accepted that we're justified whenever we try our hands at regime change; even though it always ends up ruining the country in question, and creating more enemies for us in the long run.
More enemies just means more DoD budget justifications, and more money in Lockmart/Boeing/Raytheon stock prices.
Is it? EU helped too. Ukrainian nationalists helped too. And lets not forget that the shitty corruptocrat friends of Russia who were in charge of Ukraine since the 90's also helped - after all, if they have gotten Ukraine to a living standard similar to even neighboring pro-Russian Belarus, the regime change probably wouldn't have nearly as much support, making its success rather unlikely.
So absolutely not, it's not entirely US fault, it was in fact a massive culmination of various factors and influences, and even calling it a "fault" is inherently tendential.
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Do Ukrainians not have a right to launch revolutions of their own? Because plenty of Ukrainians see their country's future as being with Europe. This was already the case even back in late 2013.
An independent Eastern European military bloc will still be allied with the US, so it's not going to do anything to alleviate Puting's anxieties. And is Putin really cool with an Intermarium that includes Ukraine?Perhaps it's time for the Visgrad group to become more than an economic thing.
Eastern Europe creating a military power block independent of NATO and Russia may be the best path to easing the fears of all parties. A third option made of an existing economic alliance, instead of forcing Eastern Europe to bow to either Moscow or DC.
Of course we could also just admit NATO is a relect of a bygone era, dissolve it in favor of bilateral agreements with individual nations, and maybe realize 'containing' Russia is no longer necessary or beneficial.
Edit:
British troops ready to evacuate from Ukraine
COMMANDERS have drawn up contingency plans to pull British troops from Ukraine in the event of a Russian invasion.
The Brits are not interested in getting into a direct fight with Russia over Ukraine, should the deescalation fail.
We risked nuclear war over Cuba because Cuba had Soviet nuclear missiles, not just Soviet troops, no? And the US put its own nuclear missiles in Turkey, which bordered the Soviet Union.
Why does NATO need Ukraine for this when it can simply strike St. Petersburg from the Baltic countries? Why is a NATO threat to St. Petersburg from the Baltic countries tolerable for Russia?
Ukraine actually tried to sign an Association Agreement with the EU even under Yanukovych but changed its mind at the last minute in late 2013 due to Russian pressure, and this is exactly what triggered Euromaidan. Pro-Western Ukrainians felt like Yanukovych was bartering their European future in exchange for some Russian money, and they became even more pissed off once Yanukovych's thugs and goons literally bloodied a lot of Ukrainian protesters in the winter of 2013-2014, culminating in Yanukovych's overthrow. Had Yanukovych wanted to deescalate the situation, he could have offered the Euromaidan protesters a free and fair referendum on this question early enough. He could have also avoided acting like an authoritarian thug during his presidency.
The problem is that Russia itself didn't have much appeal for Ukraine and thus had to resort to economic coercion to try getting Ukraine to pull away from Europe, and even that was ultimately unsuccessful in the end.
Would you have also been against NATO's post-1995 wave of expansion? Because in 1900, someone would have said that Poland is just as much a part of Russia's sphere of influence as Russia currently claims Ukraine is.
As a side note, had Germany won World War I, Russia would not have been in a position to try attacking Ukraine because in such a scenario, Germany WOULD HAVE CERTAINLY militarily responded to such a Russian move.
So, would Russia have been justified in invading the Baltic countries over their NATO aspirations in the early 2000s?