Russia-Ukraine War Politics Thread Mk. 2

[Bacle]

Heh, Moscow wants to suspend the grain deal now, yet I doubt Turkey will be agreeing to suspending it and already is willing to escort Ukrainian grain shipments in and out of the Black Sea.

Edit: Reminder today is the 9 year anniversary of the MH17 shootdown

 

[AnimalNoodles]

This whole idea of Ukraine as just a 'proxy war' completely negates the agency of the Ukrainian people, who surprised the world when '3 days to Kyiv' become '1.5 years to Bakhmut'.

Almost everyone expect Zelensky to flee and Ukraine to fold when things first began; now, Zelensky is putting his name besides the like of Churchill or George Washington because he and the the nation he leads had stood up and fought the Russian bear to a standstill and begun reverse loses that go back to 2014 in some areas, while grinding away Russia's best equipment and combat talent when they were never expected too.

There is a reason South Korea and Ukraine have such good ties now, and it's not the that SK has deep banks of artillery shells.

The short sighted domestic view here of Ukraine's situation really does seem to completely ignore how nearly everyone but Sub-Saharan dictators now generally opposes Russia in ways they had not before.

Putin has also been NATO's best salesman, with the Swedes and Finns coming into the fold now.

Ukraine won't get the F-16's till next year, but training will start in August. Biden slow rolling aid to Ukraine has been just slightly worse than most of his other political fumbles besides stealing the 2020 election, and just slightly less horrible than his family life and all that entails/all Joe is responsible for on a personal, physical level.

Right now Ukraine is mostly doing the deep logistics hits needed to weaken and starve the Russian forces in Crimea, including just today dropping another section of the Kerch Birdge, and pilling collapsed this time as well.

Congrats. You have now guaranteed to end of the grain deal, which will lead to instability in africa and even more african settlers pushed into europe, which will lead to more instability, all in exchange for a segment of a bridge that will be soon repaired.

 

[Bacle]

Congrats. You have now guaranteed to end of the grain deal, which will lead to instability in africa and even more african settlers pushed into europe, which will lead to more instability, all in exchange for a segment of a bridge that will be soon repaired.

Putin just threatened to suspend the grain deal again because Ukraine struck the Kerch bridge again, despite saying he'd extend it just a couple days back when Erdogan called his bluff, and Erdogan has made it claer the grain deal goes forward regardless of what Russia thinks.

Unless Putin/Russia is stupid enough to fire on Turkish ships escorting the grain haulers, and thus trigger Article 5 of NATO, the grain is getting through.

Erdogan sent home Azov commanders who were supposed to be in Turkey till the end of the war, in a direct bitchslap to Putin, and Erdogan supports Ukraine entering NATO.

Erdogan is a the most powerful ruler around the Black Sea now, not Putin.

 

[Zachowon]

Congrats. You have now guaranteed to end of the grain deal, which will lead to instability in africa and even more african settlers pushed into europe, which will lead to more instability, all in exchange for a segment of a bridge that will be soon repaired.

Turkey won't let that happen.
Turkey will be escorting the grain ships

 

[Cherico]

Putin just threatened to suspend the grain deal again because Ukraine struck the Kerch bridge again, despite saying he'd extend it just a couple days back when Erdogan called his bluff, and Erdogan has made it claer the grain deal goes forward regardless of what Russia thinks.

Unless Putin/Russia is stupid enough to fire on Turkish ships escorting the grain haulers, and thus trigger Article 5 of NATO, the grain is getting through.

Erdogan sent home Azov commanders who were supposed to be in Turkey till the end of the war, in a direct bitchslap to Putin, and Erdogan supports Ukraine entering NATO.

Erdogan is a the most powerful ruler around the Black Sea now, not Putin.

Turkey is once again becoming the great power in the region.

Right now thats a good thing and if Turkey keeps its ambitions in check and pointed at the middle east they will prosper very much. If they let those ambitions get out of control they will find being in the middle of the action is also a curse as much as a blessing.

 

[mrttao]

Congrats. You have now guaranteed to end of the grain deal, which will lead to instability in africa and even more african settlers pushed into europe, which will lead to more instability, all in exchange for a segment of a bridge that will be soon repaired.

That works out in Russia's favor considering how hard the west fights them and also how hard the west is trying to import "refugees" to replace its white population.

Not a nice thing to do though. I was wondering when and if they would go the route of pushing more refugees our way

 

[Cherico]

That works out in Russia's favor considering how hard the west fights them and also how hard the west is trying to import "refugees" to replace its white population.

Not a nice thing to do though. I was wondering when and if they would go the route of pushing more refugees our way

when the riots start effecting the managerial class and not a minute before.

 

[Bacle]

 

[AmosTrask]

Putin just threatened to suspend the grain deal again because Ukraine struck the Kerch bridge again, despite saying he'd extend it just a couple days back when Erdogan called his bluff, and Erdogan has made it claer the grain deal goes forward regardless of what Russia thinks.

Unless Putin/Russia is stupid enough to fire on Turkish ships escorting the grain haulers, and thus trigger Article 5 of NATO, the grain is getting through.

Erdogan sent home Azov commanders who were supposed to be in Turkey till the end of the war, in a direct bitchslap to Putin, and Erdogan supports Ukraine entering NATO.

Erdogan is a the most powerful ruler around the Black Sea now, not Putin.

Hahahaha! Viva Ukraina! Viva la Libertad! Just like the Spanish Empire, I wish Russia every Fel Doom in existence.

 

[Terthna]

Was.

Being invaded and dealing with Russia's famous generosity towards those it conquers tends to change things like that.

Yes, well; blowing up civilians and kidnapping their children tends to turn people against you.

Never mind your wording. You talk about "Eastern Ukraine" like it's half of the country, while the Donetsk and Luhansk regions are pretty small parts as anyone who looks at a map can see. And that's assuming we buy your entire narrative.

Because it pretty much was (when you account for population density and not just total geographic area), at least in terms of Viktor Yanukovych's supporters who wanted him to tie them closer to Russia. It wasn't just Donetsk, Luhansk, and Crimea who voted him in; but also Kharkiv, Dnepropetrovsk, and even Odessa and Zaporizhia, to a lesser extent.

 

[Marduk]

Yes, well; blowing up civilians and kidnapping their children tends to turn people against you.

Because it pretty much was (when you account for population density and not just total geographic area), at least in terms of Viktor Yanukovych's supporters who wanted him to tie them closer to Russia. It wasn't just Donetsk, Luhansk, and Crimea who voted him in; but also Kharkiv, Dnepropetrovsk, and even Odessa and Zaporizhia, to a lesser extent.

>was
And that is the keyword here. If you look at the poll you have linked before, there is a good reason why it put so much attention on Ukraine's media landscape to correlate it with such attitudes. Namaly, pro-Russian oligarch's Russian language media were a big thing in Ukraine, and they were shilling Russia hard of course. Between the state intervention in such media, combined with the information warfare side of the separatist conflict, Russia's reputation tanked significantly, and the war itself, with Russian treatment of the mostly eastern territories it occupied, doubled down on this message in case anyone still believed the pro-Russian media.

So long story short, Russia's con against Ukraine's population fell apart. Womp womp.

 

[ATP]

>was
And that is the keyword here. If you look at the poll you have linked before, there is a good reason why it put so much attention on Ukraine's media landscape to correlate it with such attitudes. Namaly, pro-Russian oligarch's Russian language media were a big thing in Ukraine, and they were shilling Russia hard of course. Between the state intervention in such media, combined with the information warfare side of the separatist conflict, Russia's reputation tanked significantly, and the war itself, with Russian treatment of the mostly eastern territories it occupied, doubled down on this message in case anyone still believed the pro-Russian media.

So long story short, Russia's con against Ukraine's population fell apart. Womp womp.

They simply used soviet style propaganda which worked after WW2,becouse USA gave half of Europe to them.
And,it would work,if USA gave them Europe now,too.

But - have faith in Biden! he stil could do that !

 

[Terthna]

>was
And that is the keyword here. If you look at the poll you have linked before, there is a good reason why it put so much attention on Ukraine's media landscape to correlate it with such attitudes. Namaly, pro-Russian oligarch's Russian language media were a big thing in Ukraine, and they were shilling Russia hard of course. Between the state intervention in such media, combined with the information warfare side of the separatist conflict, Russia's reputation tanked significantly, and the war itself, with Russian treatment of the mostly eastern territories it occupied, doubled down on this message in case anyone still believed the pro-Russian media.

So long story short, Russia's con against Ukraine's population fell apart. Womp womp.

Most of the regions that backed Viktor Yanukovych also had a lot more ethnic Russians compared to western Ukraine (under 5% of the population in many areas), from as low as around 15% in places like Dnepropetrovsk to as high as just under 60% in Crimea, so that probably played a factor as well.

 

[Marduk]

Most of the regions that backed Viktor Yanukovych also had a lot more ethnic Russians compared to western Ukraine (under 5% of the population in many areas), from as low as around 15% in places like Dnepropetrovsk to as high as just under 60% in Crimea, so that probably played a factor as well.

The problem with what you are trying to imply here, is that being an "ethnic Russian" doesn't inherently mean that you are bound to be of Russian nationality, and even if you are, that you want to be a citizen and supporter of Russian state.
There are plenty of US citizens who are "ethnic English", yet most of them don't seem like huge fans of the king of England, nor want him to be sovereign over the lands they live on.
If things worked like that, you would think England's special military operation of 1812 would have went much better than it historically did.

For example, you have probably heard of the raids into Russia around Belogrod and so on. Those are being done by people who are not only ethnic Russians, but they are even Russian citizens, who you could consider rebels against the government in Moscow, and as such helping Ukraine wage war against it.

 

[Terthna]

The problem with what you are trying to imply here, is that being an "ethnic Russian" doesn't inherently mean that you are bound to be of Russian nationality, and even if you are, that you want to be a citizen and supporter of Russian state.
There are plenty of US citizens who are "ethnic English", yet most of them don't seem like huge fans of the king of England, nor want him to be sovereign over the lands they live on.
If things worked like that, you would think England's special military operation of 1812 would have went much better than it historically did.

For example, you have probably heard of the raids into Russia around Belogrod and so on. Those are being done by people who are not only ethnic Russians, but they are even Russian citizens, who you could consider rebels against the government in Moscow, and as such helping Ukraine wage war against it.

All I'm saying is that the areas in Ukraine with higher ethnically Russian populations also supported having closer ties with Russia, and I think there's a connection there.

 

[Marduk]

All I'm saying is that the areas in Ukraine with higher ethnically Russian populations also supported having closer ties with Russia, and I think there's a connection there.

Probably. Though the propaganda and economic ties certainly had something to do with that too.

 

[Terthna]

Probably. Though the propaganda and economic ties certainly had something to do with that too.

I agree; it was probably a whole host of factors that contributed, as is usually the case.

 

[Bacle]

Finland will be closing/withdrawing permission for the Russian consulate in their nation starting Oct 1st.

 

[Bacle]

So Russia has also been kidnapping elderly folks as well, to use as blood bags and likely worse medical 'procedures'. Guess when your nation is so heavy with HIV, getting clean blood is a challenge.

 

[mrttao]

So Russia has also been kidnapping elderly folks as well, to use as blood bags and likely worse medical 'procedures'. Guess when your nation is so heavy with HIV, getting clean blood is a challenge.

why are you posting the twatter link instead of the actual article link

Children are not the only ones being abducted by Russia

Elderly and vulnerable Ukrainians left in agony after being taken into Russian territory, Telegraph investigation reveals

www.telegraph.co.uk