Russia-Ukraine War Politics Thread Mk. 2

[Largo]

The ukrainian oligarchs are not worried about it. That doesn't mean that nobody is worried about it.
Also "cost"? it isn't about money, it is about dead civilians

Heck, american oligarchs are probably really jealous. they wish they could toss cluster bombs into the american countryside where those filthy conservative peasants live.

You don't think you can't put a cost on dead civillians?

Every military option out there kills civillians one way or the other. Even refusing to fight and surrendering wholesale to the Russians kills civillians. The question is whether the risks of cluster mines will outweigh the benefits one way or the other. One cannot wage war if one is paralyzed because every possible option kills civillians.

I personally have no capacity to answer that question of whether the risks outweigh the benefits, and neither do you. And neither do you possess some unique insight into the thoughts of the Ukrainian people. With the information availble, I see no reason to deny the Ukrainian rulers, who represent with the consent of their governed, weapons which they need to defeat the enemy.

 

[Tiamat]

News today. Biden activates 3000 troops and deploys them to europe to prepare for war with russia

President Biden activates 3,000 military reserve troops for deployment to Europe to defend against Russia 😬

Man I miss that guy who started no new wars.

notthebee.com

Ordering the Selected Reserve and Certain Members of the Individual Ready Reserve of the Armed Forces to Active Duty | The White House

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including sections 121 and 12304 of title 10, United States Code, I hereby determine that it is necessary to augment the active Armed Forces of the United States for the effective conduct...

www.whitehouse.gov

You do know this is a troop rotation, right? There are US troops stationed in countries like Poland and the Baltic states (NATO members, btw), they rotate out troops regularly, in this case give the US Army and National Guard troops that are already in theater some RnR while the Reserve troops that are getting called up will get some experience under their belts on deployment.

3000 troops is barely large enough for a typical U.S. Army brigade. If you're actually planning to go to war with Russia you're going to need a LOT more troops than that, alongside a lot more armor, artillery, heavy weapons, CAS aircraft and air superiority aircraft, helicopter gunships, naval assets, etc. You'd be sending multiple brigades at the very least, if not divisions.

 

[Bassoe]

3000 troops is barely large enough for a typical U.S. Army brigade. If you're actually planning to go to war with Russia you're going to need a LOT more troops than that, alongside a lot more armor, artillery, heavy weapons, CAS aircraft and air superiority aircraft, helicopter gunships, naval assets, etc. You'd be sending multiple brigades at the very least, if not divisions.

Sure they’d lose any real fight, but that might be the point. Give the media a juicy propaganda piece about Russia killing American soldiers to justify further intervention.

 

[Tiamat]

Sure they’d lose any real fight, but that might be the point. Give the media a juicy propaganda piece about Russia killing American soldiers to justify further intervention.

So please explain how that works from A to Z, US troops get a blatant order to invade Russia with 3000 troops???

 

[mrttao]

You do know this is a troop rotation, right? There are US troops stationed in countries like Poland and the Baltic states (NATO members, btw), they rotate out troops regularly, in this case give the US Army and National Guard troops that are already in theater some RnR while the Reserve troops that are getting called up will get some experience under their belts on deployment.

3000 troops is barely large enough for a typical U.S. Army brigade. If you're actually planning to go to war with Russia you're going to need a LOT more troops than that, alongside a lot more armor, artillery, heavy weapons, CAS aircraft and air superiority aircraft, helicopter gunships, naval assets, etc. You'd be sending multiple brigades at the very least, if not divisions.

In pearl harbor 2403 died and additional 1178 wounded.

JFK was assassinated days after he said he will shatter the CIA because they offered to create a false flag attack on USA soil where they kill some 3000 or so americans to justify a war.

9-11 attack killed 2977 victims

that 3000 number keeps on coming up

 

[mrttao]

So please explain how that works from A to Z, US troops get a blatant order to invade Russia with 3000 troops???

Two paths forwards:
1. the troops will "tragically" die when "russia" attacks them. and biden declares war in retaliation.
2. these troops are just the first wave and he will be sending more in bite sized chunks

 

[Tiamat]

In pearl harbor 2403 died and additional 1178 wounded.

JFK was assassinated days after he said he will shatter the CIA because they offered to create a false flag attack on USA soil where they kill some 3000 or so americans to justify a war.

9-11 attack killed 2977 victims

that 3000 number keeps on coming up

So I will ask you the same question, nevermind your conspiracy nonsense. What's the "master plan" to use 3000 US troops to start a war with Russia, how and why, and how do they even get away with it??? Then again, I don't even know why I bother to ask.

 

[Tiamat]

Two paths forwards:
1. the troops will tragically die when "russia" attacks them. and biden declares war in retaliation.
2. these troops are just the first wave and he will be sending more in bite sized chunks

.........

Right....it's pretty clear you don't even understand how the basic concepts of warfare and the US military chain of command, etc. work.

Disregard my previous questions. I feel dumber for even engaging in this conversation.

 

[mrttao]

.........

Right....it's pretty clear you don't even understand how the basic concepts of warfare and the US military chain of command, etc. work.

Disregard my previous questions. I feel dumber for even engaging in this conversation.

So you do not believe in:

1. false flag attacks exist

2. it is possible for a president to make multiple separate small deployments that add up together to a big deployment?

3. securing staging grounds in advance?
Did you know the official reason USA has military base in foreign countries is specifically for the purpose of having staging grounds for foreign deployment?

 

[Zachowon]

It is a horrible idea because the soldiers would not go along with it. Because they are not suicidal

 

[mrttao]

It is a horrible idea because the soldiers would not go along with it. Because they are not suicidal

Not go with what?

will disobey orders to be deployed into a spot that is going to later get bombed by a "russian" airplane?
(assuming they actually kill anyone instead of just claiming people died without showing a single body).

will disobey orders to be deployed in small groups until suddenly there is an entire army of USA troops there?

will disobey orders to build and maintain a forward base that will be used by future soldiers during a war?

 

[Zachowon]

Not go with what?

will disobey orders to be deployed into a spot that is going to later get bombed by a "russian" airplane?
(assuming they actually kill anyone instead of just claiming people died without showing a single body).

will disobey orders to be deployed in small groups until suddenly there is an entire army of USA troops there?

will disobey orders to build and maintain a forward base that will be used by future soldiers during a war?

The first one would be noticed and reports will be made.
Because we know Russia would not bomb our troops because they do kot want us in the war.
And we already have multiple divisions worth of troops in Poland....3k is nothing new.

We have a base in Poland actually.
Just nit near Ukraine.
And we don't have any bases we own, we operate out of friendly bases

 

[mrttao]

The first one would be noticed and reports will be made.

Which will promptly get memory holed.
Fact checkers will all say it is a lie.
MSM will say it is a lie.
Serious investigators will commit suicide via 2 bullets to the back of the head.
Silly amateur investigators will be put on display everywhere as sample conspiracy theorists before being filled a billion dollars and/or tossed in prison.

We have a base in Poland actually.

Gonna need more than one base for WW3

 

[mrttao]

And we don't have any bases we own, we operate out of friendly bases

No. USA actually owns and operates bases.

Military Bases Overseas – AF, BE, BG, BH, CU, DE, GL, GR, GU, IO

Military Bases Overseas - United Kingdom, Turkey, Spain, South Korea, Singapore, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Puerto Rico, Portugal, Netherlands

militarybases.com

And we already have multiple divisions worth of troops in Poland....3k is nothing new.

It is additional troops.
Troop movements matter

 

[Bacle]

So I’m more worried about the aftermath and the cleanup of the cluster bombs and mines.


Also, the attitude of ‘it’s okay when we do it!‘ hypocrisy with a side order of ‘ We can do it because we’re the Good Guys on the Right Side of History!’ that the American military and the West in general has just grinds my gears.

They are likely using the cluster bombs as demininng equipment.

Think about it, the mines don't need a lot of explosive to sympathetically detonate, and cluster bombs let you clear a large area at once than almost any other method.

Saves a lot of sapper lives, and opens corridors for armored thrusts.

It also allows for trench clearing with a lot fewer assault troop casualties.

 

[mrttao]

They are likely using the cluster bombs as demininng equipment.

I cannot facepalm enough.

 

[Megadeath]

I cannot facepalm enough.

Says the guy who thinks the coincidence of 3,000 showing up 3 times in a century proves a conspiracy.

 

[Captain X]

I'm sure we could totally take Russia with 3000 troops.

 

[AmosTrask]

They also have quite likely the worst record for cheating at the Olympics, all politics aside.

That's China actually. The difference is China paid their bribes and kept quite when caught. Russia was just a lot more blatant at it

 

[Marduk]

Nice whataboutism.

Thanks, that was my intent, very appropriate counter to such a whataboutist argument, isn't it?