peter Zeihan 2020

New Peter Zeihan thing out

in it he predicts that its all going to come down to the debates and that if Biden fucks it up he will lose, if he holds his own he will win.


Personally I think Peter is talking outside his wheelhouse on this one, and underestimates how much the riots have pissed people off. How much shear anger is pissing people off and the host off legitament issues people have with the democratic party. So I think he's making a wrong call here.

Then again I think Peter is honestly in a case where he doesn't like either option and to be fair I understand why. The man honestly liked the global system of free trade that created the largest period of prosperity and peace in human history and doesn't look forward to the wars and conflicts that will happen when it all collapses. But it will collapse and there isn't any one with the political capital or will to continue throwing blood and money into an order that doesn't benefit us.

So in closing? He's good at the international stuff but I'd probally trust some one else on domestic so take it with a grain of salt.
I think it's an issue of his personal bias clouding his judgement; something everyone falls prey to at times. The man's world consists almost entirely of international politics and economics, and he clearly holds a personal grudge against Trump for not doing what he wanted him to do in that sphere. He also probably has no idea that the Democrats have openly supported the riots, or that said riots aren't just "peaceful protests", and has apparently bought into their narrative about the Corona Virus, blaming Trump for things that were not his fault.

Zeihan should have stuck to his guns, and stayed out of America politics; because every time he opines about that particular subject, it damages his credibility.
 
I mean, everything he opines about which I seem to know something about seems, well, wrong. Which makes me suspicious of most of his other predictions. Like, some of his china predictions seems built on some theory that the Chinese can't learn to boat. Which is, well, retarded.

If Sparta and Rome can learn to boat well enough to defeat much more naturally naval powers (Athens and Carthage), China can learn to boat well enough to beat us or Japan given time, and really what they need to learn to boat to do is really just enough to get a warship to threaten uppidy African nations or deliver a division worth of supplies, which they already have the logistic capacity to do trivially.

He seems to think China needs to duplicate our naval structure in order to guarantee their trade. That's simply not true. And even if they did Its not going to be something thats forever out of their reach.
 
I mean, everything he opines about which I seem to know something about seems, well, wrong. Which makes me suspicious of most of his other predictions. Like, some of his china predictions seems built on some theory that the Chinese can't learn to boat. Which is, well, retarded.

If Sparta and Rome can learn to boat well enough to defeat much more naturally naval powers (Athens and Carthage), China can learn to boat well enough to beat us or Japan given time, and really what they need to learn to boat to do is really just enough to get a warship to threaten uppidy African nations or deliver a division worth of supplies, which they already have the logistic capacity to do trivially.

He seems to think China needs to duplicate our naval structure in order to guarantee their trade. That's simply not true. And even if they did Its not going to be something thats forever out of their reach.

its not that they cant learn how to do naval combat, its that they have a chain of hostel naturally naval powers around them that are also islands and can act like air craft carriers, and the fact that their agerculture uses so many imputes, and their rapidly aging demographics, and an nigh impossible Enron eqst economic disaster that every one knows is coming because the bubble is now obvious, and now you have a corna cherry on top of it.

Its not just one thing china's facing down its a whole lot of disasters hitting all at once.
 
I mean, everything he opines about which I seem to know something about seems, well, wrong. Which makes me suspicious of most of his other predictions. Like, some of his china predictions seems built on some theory that the Chinese can't learn to boat. Which is, well, retarded.

If Sparta and Rome can learn to boat well enough to defeat much more naturally naval powers (Athens and Carthage), China can learn to boat well enough to beat us or Japan given time, and really what they need to learn to boat to do is really just enough to get a warship to threaten uppidy African nations or deliver a division worth of supplies, which they already have the logistic capacity to do trivially.

He seems to think China needs to duplicate our naval structure in order to guarantee their trade. That's simply not true. And even if they did Its not going to be something thats forever out of their reach.

If they had a stable society and a healthy economy backing them, there's very little reason China could not in time build a navy powerful enough to dominate any shipping lanes they cared about, at least that isn't in the Americas or immediate proximity to Great Britain.

The thing is, they don't have either a stable society or a healthy economy.

They're also, strangely enough, picking a fight with the only nation in the world that rivals them for population, and also happens to share a land border with them.
 
They're also, strangely enough, picking a fight with the only nation in the world that rivals them for population, and also happens to share a land border with them.

How would that go down, by the way? I know the Chinese somewhat outmatch India in terms of army size and equipment, but in this situation India would be holding its area of the Himalayas, which is a defensible position. Also, as I understand it, the Indian Army is a professional volunteer force, which is a bit different from the communism addled conscripts of China (who might well defect first chance they can get).
 
How would that go down, by the way? I know the Chinese somewhat outmatch India in terms of army size and equipment, but in this situation India would be holding its area of the Himalayas, which is a defensible position. Also, as I understand it, the Indian Army is a professional volunteer force, which is a bit different from the communism addled conscripts of China (who might well defect first chance they can get).

You underestimate the ethnic angle there. I doubt there will be many defections. Mutinies and desertions are still a distinct possibility, however.
 
I think it's an issue of his personal bias clouding his judgement; something everyone falls prey to at times. The man's world consists almost entirely of international politics and economics, and he clearly holds a personal grudge against Trump for not doing what he wanted him to do in that sphere. He also probably has no idea that the Democrats have openly supported the riots, or that said riots aren't just "peaceful protests", and has apparently bought into their narrative about the Corona Virus, blaming Trump for things that were not his fault.

Zeihan should have stuck to his guns, and stayed out of America politics; because every time he opines about that particular subject, it damages his credibility.

I agree that he is struggling with his own bias, but I don't think he's wholly beholden to it.

He does make some good points, so let's address them.

President Trump’s seemingly deliberate and always callous mismanagement of the coronavirus crisis has contributed to the death of 200,000 Americans.

I think this is unfairly attributed to Trump. Governor Cum-ho's complete disaster in New York City's management is primarily responsible for 32,000 deaths. And look at blue states; California added another 15,000 deaths. Washington 2,000 more deaths and Oregon had another 2,000 deaths. Maryland about 4,000 deaths. That's not to say that Texas hasn't had its own issues, with almost 16,000 deaths...but this is not the sole fault of the President. Pelosi and others also ignored the problem at first and even called Trump a racist for his initial actions to prevent Chinese nationals from coming over to the US.

That's not to say that Trump didn't make mistakes. But the Democrats promoting protesting and rioting during a pandemic was not a good look. Especially when said riots have lasted for months.

In per capita terms that’s double the suffering of Europe or Canada. In absolute terms that’s higher than the number killed in any American military conflict save the Civil War and World War II itself. Forget vaccines. Forget ventilators and masks. Forget the CDC and the WHO. Forget the PR war with the Democrats. All Trump needed to do to mitigate the risk was say something like “wear a mask, maintain some distance, and look in on your loved ones”. Paraguay managed it. Bulgaria managed it. This isn’t hard. Most of America’s political middle finds Trump leadership lacking and his behavior disgusting.

I'm pretty sure that Trump did insist on social distancing. I have to admit I don't see where this anger is coming from. Especially when liberal bastions were the first to have massive spikes in their COVID infections and death rates. Where was the social distancing? Or the masks? Every leader has fucked the pooch on COVID-19. Biden might look clean in comparison because he was busy forgetting what state he was in.

It's obvious no one really knew what to do. It's also disgusting that the DNC gave passes to far leftists to riot and protest because a fucking junkie OD'd while getting arrested and instead of allowing the system to do its job, they encouraged massive property damage and racial tensions, all while spreading the virus by their own actions. And worse, causing local depressions after destroying local businesses.

Trump also faces danger on the Right. Trump has alienated fiscal conservatives, the military and the business community – all once bedrock Republicans.

True, but that was going to happen anyway. And to be hones, those voting blocks alienated the rest of the party first; by selling all our jobs to China, by letting Europe and Co rape our markets during a recession, and use government money to cover up their indiscretions; from sexual harassment to Pedo Island. And no one can convince me they weren't aware of that.

The Democrats have avoided – albeit narrowly – running an absolute whackjob and instead settled on Milquetoast Biden. To achieve reelection, Trump must capture every swing state as well as a couple decent sized blue states. That’s just not possible.

It is very much possible. Because that's exactly what he did in 2016. And from what I've seen, there hasn't been much done to change the math.

Trump surprised last time because there was a large block of voters – the populists – the pollsters missed. That’s not the case this time around. And so Trump will lose and he will lose big.

It wasn't just the voting block they missed; they were literally lied to. And in some cases, had rather skewed polling. Seriously, anyone who believes a candidate is actually ahead 10 points in a battleground state is a fucking moron.

Next Tuesday will be the first presidential debate, moderated by Chris Wallace. It will be the first time Biden will need to hold his own in a long-form open forum without his support crew. His performance will determine the election. Biden does not need to best Trump in the debate. All he needs to do is come across as marginally capable.


Aaaaand the clincher.

The debate runs between 9 and 10:30 pm. We're talking at least a 45 minute debate. If Joe Biden is even twice as coherent in his debate as he is during interviews, his goose is cooked. Especially because the things that you generally shouldn't say to someone with dementia, because it sets them off, is the sort of things you need to ask them in a debate. It's going to be high stress and going to involve a lot of memory recall and in some cases, moderately complicated questions.

The sort of odds here are not good. Biden needs to be having one of his better days, with the right cocktail of drugs, and he should ideally NOT be in a stressful situation and most definitely NOT in an environment he doesn't control. Given Biden's continued lack of appearance in recent days and the past few months when he's gone horribly off-script (which are presumably his good days), it implies that Biden's team cannot consistently drug him up enough to get him running properly.

More importantly, unless Biden skips out on any debates, then he will have to nail this three times.

If I were a Democrat, I'd be shitting myself right now. Just like their nominee, come to think of it.


Overall though, his position isn't too bad. I think the thing I disagree the most with him on is how offended the Evangelicals were when Trump cleared out "protesters" for a photo-op. That always stank as overblown to me and months into yet more protests and riots, I don't think the memory is as fresh. And of course, Trump coming through on the SCOTUS pick could re-energize him. Because they may not like what he says, how he looks, or him in general. But he is damn effective at what he does.
 
Zeihan's definitely been listening to the MSM exclusively and uncritically, hasn't he? And it sounds like he actually thinks that the NeverTrumps comprise a significant portion of actual voters. While either ignoring or being completely unaware of the former NeverTrumps who either admitted that they were wrong, or while they still don't like Trump, they find the Biden/Harris combo worse.
 
Zeihan's take on specific political events or policies (especially outside the foreign policy space) tends to be that of someone who is informed on the topic but not especially invested in it and it doesn't get the kind of in depth analysis of his focus areas.

What he excels in is reading longer term trend lines and underlying issues that shape those policies and events.
 
I agree that he is struggling with his own bias, but I don't think he's wholly beholden to it.

He does make some good points, so let's address them.



I think this is unfairly attributed to Trump. Governor Cum-ho's complete disaster in New York City's management is primarily responsible for 32,000 deaths. And look at blue states; California added another 15,000 deaths. Washington 2,000 more deaths and Oregon had another 2,000 deaths. Maryland about 4,000 deaths. That's not to say that Texas hasn't had its own issues, with almost 16,000 deaths...but this is not the sole fault of the President. Pelosi and others also ignored the problem at first and even called Trump a racist for his initial actions to prevent Chinese nationals from coming over to the US.

That's not to say that Trump didn't make mistakes. But the Democrats promoting protesting and rioting during a pandemic was not a good look. Especially when said riots have lasted for months.



I'm pretty sure that Trump did insist on social distancing. I have to admit I don't see where this anger is coming from. Especially when liberal bastions were the first to have massive spikes in their COVID infections and death rates. Where was the social distancing? Or the masks? Every leader has fucked the pooch on COVID-19. Biden might look clean in comparison because he was busy forgetting what state he was in.

It's obvious no one really knew what to do. It's also disgusting that the DNC gave passes to far leftists to riot and protest because a fucking junkie OD'd while getting arrested and instead of allowing the system to do its job, they encouraged massive property damage and racial tensions, all while spreading the virus by their own actions. And worse, causing local depressions after destroying local businesses.



True, but that was going to happen anyway. And to be hones, those voting blocks alienated the rest of the party first; by selling all our jobs to China, by letting Europe and Co rape our markets during a recession, and use government money to cover up their indiscretions; from sexual harassment to Pedo Island. And no one can convince me they weren't aware of that.



It is very much possible. Because that's exactly what he did in 2016. And from what I've seen, there hasn't been much done to change the math.



It wasn't just the voting block they missed; they were literally lied to. And in some cases, had rather skewed polling. Seriously, anyone who believes a candidate is actually ahead 10 points in a battleground state is a fucking moron.




Aaaaand the clincher.

The debate runs between 9 and 10:30 pm. We're talking at least a 45 minute debate. If Joe Biden is even twice as coherent in his debate as he is during interviews, his goose is cooked. Especially because the things that you generally shouldn't say to someone with dementia, because it sets them off, is the sort of things you need to ask them in a debate. It's going to be high stress and going to involve a lot of memory recall and in some cases, moderately complicated questions.

The sort of odds here are not good. Biden needs to be having one of his better days, with the right cocktail of drugs, and he should ideally NOT be in a stressful situation and most definitely NOT in an environment he doesn't control. Given Biden's continued lack of appearance in recent days and the past few months when he's gone horribly off-script (which are presumably his good days), it implies that Biden's team cannot consistently drug him up enough to get him running properly.

More importantly, unless Biden skips out on any debates, then he will have to nail this three times.

If I were a Democrat, I'd be shitting myself right now. Just like their nominee, come to think of it.


Overall though, his position isn't too bad. I think the thing I disagree the most with him on is how offended the Evangelicals were when Trump cleared out "protesters" for a photo-op. That always stank as overblown to me and months into yet more protests and riots, I don't think the memory is as fresh. And of course, Trump coming through on the SCOTUS pick could re-energize him. Because they may not like what he says, how he looks, or him in general. But he is damn effective at what he does.
Given the group who were complaining weren’t evangelicals they were Episcopalians, for anyone who doesn’t know Episcopalians are left wing already, so the chunk of evangelicals who the republicans win weren’t offended at all, and wouldn’t care about the photo op.
the thing is his background was part of the think tank sphere, so while he can understand foreign geopolitics, which is how resources affect the world his understanding of the US is a bit off. To point out in every election since the 90s he feels the wrong candidate won. After all he favored bush senior over Clinton.
 
Zeihan's take on specific political events or policies (especially outside the foreign policy space) tends to be that of someone who is informed on the topic but not especially invested in it and it doesn't get the kind of in depth analysis of his focus areas.

What he excels in is reading longer term trend lines and underlying issues that shape those policies and events.

He's a generalist by his own admission. That gives you a good view on the big picture, but means you're very reliant on experts to fill in the gaps.
 
He's a generalist by his own admission. That gives you a good view on the big picture, but means you're very reliant on experts to fill in the gaps.
He admits as much when people ask him about his research methods. He's heavily reliant on dry government statics and international news organizations for info. That's fine when judging population decline over decades, not so good when it comes to identifying rapid domestic political shifts. Its kind of funny given that he predicted Trump's arrival.

All that being said he is correct about one thing. The standards for Biden are so low that so long as he avoids crapping on stage he will be heralded as the next JFK and the current democratic momentum will continue. If he flubs though, its game over for the Democrats.
 
Zeihan's definitely been listening to the MSM exclusively and uncritically, hasn't he? And it sounds like he actually thinks that the NeverTrumps comprise a significant portion of actual voters. While either ignoring or being completely unaware of the former NeverTrumps who either admitted that they were wrong, or while they still don't like Trump, they find the Biden/Harris combo worse.
Zeihan initially insisted that the Corona Virus was nothing to worry about, which was similar to what the Democrats were saying around the same time, and his narrative changed when theirs did. This says to me his sources regarding American domestic issues are likely suspect in terms of their veracity and bias.
 
Zeihan initially insisted that the Corona Virus was nothing to worry about, which was similar to what the Democrats were saying around the same time, and his narrative changed when theirs did. This says to me his sources regarding American domestic issues are likely suspect in terms of their veracity and bias.

The guy knows shit in his wheel house which is geography, long term trends and geo politics but if hes outside his wheel house he tends to flub, and he admits that.

There are things I trust him on and things I dont, and I try to be honest and fair about where I think hes right and where I think he's reaching.
 
The guy knows shit in his wheel house which is geography, long term trends and geo politics but if hes outside his wheel house he tends to flub, and he admits that.

There are things I trust him on and things I dont, and I try to be honest and fair about where I think hes right and where I think he's reaching.

Well, there was a shitload of disinformation for COVID, so I really don't hold it against anyone that they got that wrong. The ones to blame are China and the WHO (to some extent). Following that, the whole issue became politicized within the US and that basically destroyed any real coordination between states to ensure that we could cap it. If America hadn't been so divided and if the Democrats been so eager to go on the offensive with it, Republicans would not have seized up in their responses.

COVID 19 was an example of a failure to achieve teamwork. Because after it got to the continent, it was going to run ravage through our system without an aggressive defense. Between not knowing anything (because of China and WHO) and internal political squabbles, we really never had a chance to squash it.
 
Interesting. I hadn't been aware of how much manufacturing was already leaving China in 2019.
It's due to the fact that automation's costs have outright plummeted in the last few decades, especially once adaptive learning programming became a thing in the programming world (basic gist of this sort of programming is literally the computers watching your every work move, consolidate it into a program, and then literally walk away with your job) and we had the processing power to make use of that programming. Between China's workforce getting more expensive and automation decreasing in pricetag... well, you get the current situation where western companies will move the lines back to their home nations/continents and automate the shit out of them. What used to be supporting hundreds of jobs back in the '70s is now only supporting tens of jobs today.
 



Yep, when the current global order collapses, California is going to get horribly fucked. That's impart why the tech giants are coming down so hard on Trump. At best, he is going to ruin their bottom line and at worst, he'll destroy the massive social and economic powerhouse that they've amassed. Their one hope (forlorn at that) is to appease the left in hopes of blunting the damage they're about to take.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top