So the Turks are getting "older" planes, while Greece (whose economy is still in the shit) is buying new F-35's.
Anyone else seeing the unspoken message here?
Anyone else seeing the unspoken message here?
NATO Military News
- Thread starter Husky_Khan
- Start date
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
The Turks used to be part of the F-35 program.
Then they decided to start buying Russian military hardware.
They got kicked out, and if they ever get let back in, it'll probably be after Gen 6 is flying.
It's notable that with the Ukraine war they had a surprise excuse and opportunity to get out of this boondoggle by donating the S-400 to Ukraine, yet they still didn't do it.
Sultan Erdogan want old empire back.Well,considering what EU is doing,he could actually manage to creating new Ottoman,i mean erdogan,Empire.
And now EU low point would come in few years.Sultan Erdogan would have his chance to be remembered as first sultan of new dynasty ruling from Berlin over european sultanate.
If Poland rebel,his faitfull commander al-Tusk would turn us all into good muslims.
Jokes aside - Turkey have now chance for creating Empire,it is up to Erdogan to miss it or not.
Germans fucking it even more with their wilkommen approach,and then sending muslims to other countries.
Not mention trying to turn EU into IV Reich.we would have uncivil war,and turks could come after everytching falls.
They really do not need to do anytching,only wait few years for another german fucking straw which finally break back of european camel.
Tryglaw
Well-known member
Kind of. But do keep in mind Turkey has enough of local industrial capacity to have built their previous F-16s under license and modernise them locally, incl. domestic AESA radar IIRC. Meanwhile nobody but US will be allowed to build F-35, only to participate in parts of production. So Turkey can keep it's fleet operational on it's own, while Greece will depend on external deliveries of parts.
49ersfootball
Well-known member
Wouldn't be shocked if NATO continues expanding.
Memo to Putin: FUCK YOU!
Memo to Putin: FUCK YOU!
Czech Republic selected the F-35A for its Future Fighter program.
The deal is worth about $6.5 billion dollars apparently with all of the training and maintenance and whatnot figured in with the first expected arrival of the F-35's to come in about 2031. There's also discussion of incorporating Czech industry into teh F-35 program supply chain as well. The Czech Air Force currently operates 14 JAS 39 C/D Fighters on lease.
www.aerotime.aero
The deal is worth about $6.5 billion dollars apparently with all of the training and maintenance and whatnot figured in with the first expected arrival of the F-35's to come in about 2031. There's also discussion of incorporating Czech industry into teh F-35 program supply chain as well. The Czech Air Force currently operates 14 JAS 39 C/D Fighters on lease.
Czech Republic signs order of 24 F-35 fighter jets
The Czech Republic officially enters the F-35 program, signing a $6.5B deal for 24 advanced fighters.
www.aerotime.aero
This has got to be a nightmare for Russia, lol.
The M10 Booker is hilarious to me. I feel so vindicated, it’s not even funny.
I distinctly recall getting into an argument with SBers once about the necessity of an assault gun for the Army to remove enemy fortifications, and so on.
I couldn’t help but notice, from combat footage from Iraq, how many baddies hid behind windowsills and how long it took a Bradley to chew through them, until finally they’d give up and have the flyboys drop a JDAM on it, to choruses of “Git sum, motherfucker!”
My argument was that the Army could make use of something like an Ontos to take out guys hiding in buildings, instead of expensive and time-consuming aircraft sorties. You’d have the big guns right there, in the formation, removing bunkers at will, just like an old assault gun.
The response I got was “We already have SMAWs/Bradleys/JDAMs/120mm AMP rounds, assault guns are obsolete WWII stuff”.
Fast-forward several years, and lo and behold, the Army is buying an assault gun. I mean, an MPF, or whatever they want to call it to avoid admitting they’re buying assault guns.
Another *THASF* prophecy fulfilled, lol! 😂
Uh...it isn't an assault gun.
And Bradley's did the job just fine, and would depend on tje rounds they have.
It is basically replacing the Stryker 105, whoch again was not an assault gun.
The 105 is not the best round to use against adobe like structure in the ME.
Old Assault guns were often bigger or were focused elsewhere, and that we also have the capability to move a lot faster now.
These M10s arnt going to be used as Assault guns either. They are basically going to be used as heavy anti infantry and anti vehicle for Airborn and light forces.
Because even the mechanized units that don't have Abrams with them arnt getting a unit of Bookers.
My own proposition, back then, was a UGV based on the BAE Black Knight but with an autoloading 165mm demolition gun lobbing HESH shells to obliterate tough stone and mudbrick/adobe structures.
I got the idea from watching footage of the Hell Cannon improvised spigot mortars in Syria. Those things could pound huge apartment blocks into dust very quickly. Something like that, but with a bit more precision, ought to be very handy.
Sometimes, you just gotta go through a wall.
Tiamat
I've seen the future...
Bradley's also have TOW missiles, along with HE ammo for the 25mm Bushmaster which are capable enough to punch through a wall, granted it's original purpose was anti-tank but it will punch a hole regardless. And then you have the 120mm cannon on the Abrams. Oh, and there's a 50mm autocannon upgrade they're implementing for the Bradley's that can fire both fin-stabilized sabot and HE ammo as well.
The assault gun is a WW2 concept that while in itself isn't ENTIRELY obsolete, not a lot of militaries utilize these days. Granted, you have vehicles in the French, Italian, South African militaries that could fall in this category, but they're more in the role of "light mobile tank destroyer" rather than "assault gun", which the M10 falls in the former. As Zach stated, it's there to provide additional anti-infantry and anti-vehicle firepower to light mobile units like the Airborne (who have really needed this type of vehicle for a while now) who don't always have ready access to the heavy armor like Bradleys and Abrams.
The biggest problem with assault guns, as defined as vehicles that primarily fire low-velocity HE rounds, is that they are a niche weapon. This was discovered, painfully during WW2 when assault guns found themselves often shooting at enemy vehicles including heavy armor tanks, something they weren't suited for. Out of that experience was the move toward more multi-purpose vehicles you see today. The BMP-3 for example, utilizes the 100mm 2A70 low-pressure rifled cannon that shoots both HE-FRAG shells along with 9K116-3 "Basnya" ATGM's, so it's more of a multipurpose weapon.
Yes, you have to go through a wall sometimes, MOUT (Mounted Operations in Urban Terrain) is part of that and which the Army and Marines train a lot for. But there are plenty of weapons that can "mousehole" a wall, the various rocket launchers the US Army and USMC now employ are among them. The "Hell Cannon" seen in Syria is more of an improvisational form of a large-caliber mortar that's wildly inaccurate, not to mention dangerous.
There are various tools already mentioned to take down fortifications. The M10 is best described as a light tank. What you're describing is a solution in search of a problem.
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120mm or 105mm gun would in fact make it redundant, it won't be going to units with M1's, the problem is that it's for quick reaction units that won't have MBTs, and relied on the MGS, but its retiring, and HE TOW costs a fortune compared to a gun AMP round so it can't be used too much, also btw they want AMP for the M10's 105 too, so that they can have any kind of large direct fire HE option that's not scarce.
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Tryglaw
Well-known member
Czech Republic selected the F-35A for its Future Fighter program.
The deal is worth about $6.5 billion dollars apparently with all of the training and maintenance and whatnot figured in with the first expected arrival of the F-35's to come in about 2031. There's also discussion of incorporating Czech industry into teh F-35 program supply chain as well. The Czech Air Force currently operates 14 JAS 39 C/D Fighters on lease.
Czech Republic signs order of 24 F-35 fighter jets
The Czech Republic officially enters the F-35 program, signing a $6.5B deal for 24 advanced fighters.
You have to admit, the Czechs have their stuff in grip, good for them. They've been helping Ukraine a lot likewise.
But the M10 is openly described as being intended for taking down fortifications.
M10 Booker - Wikipedia
The M10 Booker Is the Army’s New Mobile Assault Gun
The Booker will bolster the firepower of paratroopers, light infantry, and other tankless troops.
www.popularmechanics.com
Sounds to me like they wanted a bunker remover.
They have a range of about 1 to 2 kilometers and lob a propane cylinder (or in some cases, water heaters!) that is filled with enough explosive material for the resulting shell to be three-quarters explosive by mass. Even the smaller ones were putting 60+ pounds of explosive on-target, with some of them going all the way up to 400+ pounds of HE. Their CEP is actually not very large at all; the makeshift shells often have welded-on stabilizing fins and it's not uncommon for them to hit within the same few-meter circle when firing a volley. Even the most inaccurate ones can still consistently pound the same building over and over from a mile away.
I wasn't thinking about the specifics of the improvised mortars themselves, though, but rather their effects on target. They just utterly, brutally demolished whatever they hit, collapsing multi-story structures with ease, blowing facades away, annihilating cover. That's a nice capability to have.