Lanmandragon
Well-known member
Yep anyone who believes it has anything to do with cops is delusional. It's
about tearing down the authority and legitimacy of Western institutions.
United States Minnesota; Man, George Floyd, dies during arrest, cause being a cop kneeling on his neck
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about tearing down the authority and legitimacy of Western institutions.
Terthna
Professional Lurker
Which, as someone who actually gave a crap about police brutality before, and after, the racist regressive left latched onto the issue for a few years like the latest fad, pissed me off to no end. Still does, in fact; particularly whenever the involuntary association with those assholes causes people to dismiss my comparatively far more legitimate concerns out of hand.Yep anyone who believes it has anything to do with cops is delusional. It's
Duke Nukem
Hail to the king baby
yeah I agree. the cops were assholes and got off way to easy , but i guarantee that there would be absolute silence from the media if the victim was white.
There'd be silence if the cop was black, let alone if the guy was white. 'Racism' is a lot like saying the N word and killing black people, everyone is fine when the blacks are doing it themselves; but they get super pissed when whites join in, even in small numbers.
Largo
Well-known member
Same for pedophiles, but I wouldn't go around saying a guy who rapes a kid should only serve 3-5 years because of that problem.
Lanmandragon
Well-known member
No commie leftists are alright with it hardly "everyone".
D
Deleted member
Guest
This is the absolute truth. For example (as a sort-of related anecdote): Women also have muscle groups that can be used in fighting on the ground (around the hips, for childbirth) which are useless in a fight otherwise, so serious attempts to teach martial arts to women pretty much begin and end (in the metaphorical sense) with "if you're in a fight with the dude, take it to the ground". It's true for anyone, though.
Lanmandragon
Well-known member
Ehh heavily depends in the ci text of cops and soldiers sure. That comes from the fact you'll likley have backup. For a standard dude going to the ground is a great way to get stomped on by his friends. Like with nearly everything in life context is key.
Doomsought
Well-known member
Back to topic, I'm hearing that this was personal. The murderer cop and victim were both guards at the same club for a period of time.
George Floyd was being arrested for passing a counterfeit $20 bill. There's no guarantee that he even knew the bill he was passing was counterfeit. For that, Derek Chauvin knelt on his neck for 8 minutes or longer, cutting off his carotid arteries and turning Floyd's brain hypoxic long enough to kill him. The suspect was also intoxicated, possibly on drugs. He was already handcuffed and in need of medical intervention, depending on what he took. If he ODed on opioids, the solution is Narcan, not a knee on the neck. Disproportionate doesn't even begin to describe it.
There is a possibility they knew each other, which adds an entirely new dimension to this.
kstp.com
There is a possibility they knew each other, which adds an entirely new dimension to this.
George Floyd, fired officer overlapped security shifts at south Minneapolis club
A former club owner in south Minneapolis says the now-fired police officer and the black man who died in his custody this week both worked security for her club up to the end of last year ...
kstp.com
It is entirely reasonable to arrest someone for passing counterfeit money, whether or not they know (or more accurately, claim to know) it's counterfeit or not.
The fact the police utterly botched the actual process of arresting him does not call into question the legitimacy of them doing so.
I doubt the murder charge sticks, but otherwise that's good news.
From what I know they are going for 3rd Degree, not 1st or 2nd, so it has a better chance of sticking.
Exactly. That's why we have courts to determine the facts of the case and the suspect's intentions, as well as whether or not they did it innocently (i.e. receiving a counterfeit bill from someone else and failing to detect that it was fake) or with intent to commit forgery.
Executing someone in the street, in broad daylight, means that the suspect's innocence or guilt cannot be determined. The whole point of arresting someone is that they have to be, uhh, alive. Last I checked, you can't arrest a corpse.
I mean, I suppose they could've done the whole Weekend at Bernie's thing and tried standing the body up before a court. Not sure how that would've gone over with the protesters, but hey, they could've given it the ol' college try.
My point wasn't that arresting him was inappropriate. My point was that it's ridiculous for a man to die over a fake twenty when the Federal Reserve is currently counterfeiting trillions of dollars to fight the effects of COVID-19 on our financial system, and last I checked, no one has knelt on their necks for it.
Saying he was executed is not really appropriate. That carries an implication of intentional action that thus far is not supported by the facts. By all appearances, his death was an accident, the result of sloppiness and carelessness on the part of the police. Calling this is an execution is precisely the kind of necessarily prejudicial language that drives a wedge between police and citizens and helps cause problems like the present riots.
I know what I saw.
Embedded media from this media site is no longer available
Kneeling on someone's neck for 8+ minutes, and continuing to do so long after they've passed out and become unresponsive, constitutes murder by strangulation. The suspect was already cuffed. All they had to do was put him in the back of the cruiser. Instead, Derek Chauvin killed an unarmed, handcuffed man who was face-down on the pavement and begging for his mother. What else do you call it at that point, other than an execution?
It was manslaughter at least, or a depraved indifference murder possibly, but not really an execution.
Execution implies intent; this just seems like either carelessness or indifference.
I get why calling it an execution feels right, but words have defined meanings, and twisting those meanings out of a desire for emotional release is not something we should encourage.
OK, having watched the video and having had some training in how to restrain people (was a quarter century ago) let me break a few things down.
1) The cop royally fucked up. If he'd followed his training (and I daresay that the training he should have received would have been far more comprehensive than I got) his knee would have been about 2 inches further down the body, right below the junction of neck and shoulder, and would have been equally effective at pinning the suspect down without causing any life-threatening issues.
2) The cops around him would most likely *not* have been able to realize that he'd screwed it up, at no point were any of them close enough to determine that he was doing it wrong and for most of the video they aren't even looking in the right direction. Humans are not equipped with x-ray vision (to see through either the cruiser or the kneeling officer).
3) Therefore, IMHO, the cop involved should be (and has rightfully been) charged with 3rd Degree Murder and/or involuntary manslaughter (or if the charge exists in Minnesota, Negligent Homicide). A screw up of that magnitude is not simply a training issue, it is evidence of somebody who simply didn't *care* to do it right.
4) Up to the point where they started burning down businesses and looting the protestors were 100% in the right and had my total support. This was an outrage and the people have the right to express that outrage... peacefully.
5) The other cops should have been put on leave while an investigation takes place to ensure that there was no foul play on their part, and the entire department should be required to recertify on their takedown and physical control training.
6) In order to verify that there were or were not any larger issues with the department the Justice Department should do as they are doing under Trump's direction and investigate closely whether or not there are any civil rights violations taking place there. If there are, there should be a comprehensive cleansing of the department to purge the rot.
1) The cop royally fucked up. If he'd followed his training (and I daresay that the training he should have received would have been far more comprehensive than I got) his knee would have been about 2 inches further down the body, right below the junction of neck and shoulder, and would have been equally effective at pinning the suspect down without causing any life-threatening issues.
2) The cops around him would most likely *not* have been able to realize that he'd screwed it up, at no point were any of them close enough to determine that he was doing it wrong and for most of the video they aren't even looking in the right direction. Humans are not equipped with x-ray vision (to see through either the cruiser or the kneeling officer).
3) Therefore, IMHO, the cop involved should be (and has rightfully been) charged with 3rd Degree Murder and/or involuntary manslaughter (or if the charge exists in Minnesota, Negligent Homicide). A screw up of that magnitude is not simply a training issue, it is evidence of somebody who simply didn't *care* to do it right.
4) Up to the point where they started burning down businesses and looting the protestors were 100% in the right and had my total support. This was an outrage and the people have the right to express that outrage... peacefully.
5) The other cops should have been put on leave while an investigation takes place to ensure that there was no foul play on their part, and the entire department should be required to recertify on their takedown and physical control training.
6) In order to verify that there were or were not any larger issues with the department the Justice Department should do as they are doing under Trump's direction and investigate closely whether or not there are any civil rights violations taking place there. If there are, there should be a comprehensive cleansing of the department to purge the rot.
As Bacle said, words have meaning, and the events here don't fit what you say they do. There was that whole discussion the other day here about how hard it would be to get a murder charge to stick here, because murder charges require that you prove intent to kill, and that intent appears absent thus far, and nothing you've said changes that.
Saying Chauvin killed a man that didn't deserve it is sufficient to explain what happened, why it was wrong, and why he should face consequences for doing so while his department is investigated and retrained so that something like this never happens again, and it's nearly impossible to argue otherwise. Going on about executions and murder and racism or whatnot (you haven't done the latter, granted, but enough people have been that it's worth noting) weakens you position because it is factually wrong, and contributes to a destructive atmosphere that values emotional rhetoric over discussion.
SB has been forced to take severe measures to keep things under control, because people warped by the attitude you're exhibiting here are incapable of having a civil discussion without resorting to accusations, name calling, and report spamming. We've managed to avoid that, in large part because we reject that underlying attitude. I think we should try to keep it that way.