- Jun 2, 2020
- Reaction score
- The beautiful Pacific Northwest
Not just his enemies, but his allies and even his own journals and letters corroborate the horrible things he did; not only toward the native population but also the Spaniards living under his rule. Apparently, this even included letting prepubescent girls being sold into sexual slavery, which I hope we can all agree is wrong no matter the era it happened in.Once again much what we know of Christopher Columbus's time as a governor is from his political enemies who have every reason to distort the truth in order to gain favor/power. There are arguments that he made some "token" efforts to look after native rights and curtail 'small' abuses.
An asshole yes but the argument we was worse then the standards of the time is difficult to prove because what evidence we have comes from his worst enemies.
You also convinced me to look up some reliable sources on Columbus, and I have a list for anyone who might be interested:
- Varela, C. (2006). La caída de Cristóbal Colón: el juicio de Bobadilla. Marcial Pons Historia.
- Cristóbal Colón. Textos y documentos completos
- Pons, F. M. (1992). The politics of forced Indian labour in La Española 1493–1520. Antiquity, 66(250), 130-139.
- Cook, N. D. (2002). Sickness, starvation, and death in early Hispaniola. Journal of Interdisciplinary History, 32(3), 349-386.
- A Short Account of the Destruction of the Indies
- Szászdi, I. (2012). Castilian Justice and Columbian Injustice: the End of the Government of Christopher Columbus in Hispaniola. Journal on European History of Law, (2), 53-58.*
- Deagan, K. A., & Cruxent, J. M. (2002). Columbus's outpost among the Taínos: Spain and America at La Isabela, 1493-1498. Yale University Press.
First of all, is it too much to ask for civility? Telling me to "fuck off" is not conducive to productive discussion.Fuck off. Columbus was a better man than any of his colleagues. He discovered America and brought news about it back to Spain. The statues stay, and whiners can go colonize Spain if they hate it so much here.
The nerve of these people, demonizing the heroes of the past because they are unPC, why don't y'all start digging up the graves of confiderate graves and put them on trial for slavery? Precedent for THAT is present after all.
Second of all, "heroes of the past"? Columbus' expedition to the Americas and coming back to tell the Crown "Yes, there's land over there." doesn't make him a hero, it makes him one of the great explorers of the era. Nothing more, nothing less.
You make a fair point, and after some consideration, I'm starting to think that it was a bad idea to destroy the statue. Better to just put it in a museum somewhere and raise another that commemorates someone from Baltimore. Let's see...Everyone's a scumbag; it's just a matter of figuring out why. Everyone's also a saint, and to deny either is to deny the reality of human nature; that we are all equally capable of both good and evil. Cosby's history of sexual abuse is extensive; but he also was one of the few voices in entertainment to speak out against the degradation of family values within the black community for decades. Does that make up for what he did to those women? Of course not; but neither does what he did to them erase what good he did do.
Cosby is both a rapist, as well as "America's Dad"; but before either he is a human being, not a scapegoat for anyone's righteous indignation. He is serving his sentence; let's leave it at that.
Samuel Chase, who signed the Declaration of Independence and served as a Supreme Court Justice until his death in 1811.
Johns Hopkins, a noted philanthropist who founded the hospital which bears his name, among other institutions.
John Pendleton Kennedy, who served as both Secretary of the Navy and as a Representative for Maryland. Also a noted abolitionist and proponent of religious tolerance.
William Paca, another signatory of the Declaration of Independence and served as a Representative, Delegate to the First and Second Continental Congresses, and as a judge.
Elizabeth Ann Seton, the first person from what would become the United States to be canonized by the Catholic Church.
Andrew Sterett, a naval officer during the Barbary Wars...and captain of the USS Enterprise.
I believe that demonizing and whitewashing are two sides of a coin minted from lies. It's better to take a "warts and all" view of history; do your utmost to be as factual as possible and admit the limits of the information we have. Present the facts as clearly and without bias as possible, and let people judge for themselves whether or not they want to admire someone.Yeah, this is a problem I have with the...black and white, view of the world being pushed by all the activists these days. It's like saying one mistake is enough to make every good thing a historical figure has done meaningless. It completely ignores factors like the context of the time, literally judging them by the values of our time which simply did not and would never have applied to their time. I mean...the logical conclusion of such a...oblique, point of view is essentially the same train of logic that supports Hitler was a x, so if you're an x as well, you must be like Hitler.