I never said that Muslims did not oppress or have their own pogroms against Jews. I just said that on average it was better for Jews to live under Muslims than under Christians. I mean if you disagree WHY do you disagree? Like are you unaware that Jews in Spain for instance did help Muslim invaders against the Christians. Why do you think that the Jews did that, do you think they had a logical reason or not?
I think you are strawmanning my position. I never said Islam was a tolerant religion of peace and equality and fairness. I simply said there are degrees to oppression some places have more strict and some less. For instance a serf in Russia is oppressed right, and so is a slave in America. But are they equally oppressed? Isn't one on average likely to be better off.
That's what I'm saying, you are trying to argue that Islamic empires are uniquely evil yet we can see that when groups like the Golden Horde convert to Islam from Tengrism or Buddhism their behavior did not change to be worse. Muslim Persian Empires were not much worse than Zoroastrian Persian Empires they both enslaved and conquered castrated eunuchs to have as slave guards for the harems, etc. Same race same nation same actions even if they have a different faith.
Umm we were talking about general Christian persecution. We can talk specefically about Poland and the Teutonic Order if you want. First off the Teutonic Order did not end because of some military victory over them. They continued to keep on going, and in fact would end up creating Prussia. Yup their Grand Master abandoned his monastic vows converted to Lutheranism and took a wife and made the nation that would end up uniting Germany.
As for earlier you were talking about Jadwiga right? The marriage was not between a Christian and a pagan to "bring unity" or any modern liberal nonsense like that supposedly her husband had a choice to convert to Christianity because paganism was being pushed out. He was choosing between Orthodo and Catholic and chose Catholic because he hoped that being the same religion as the Teutonics would make their crusades less frequent against his lands. So he married Jadwiga of Poland but first had to convert and get baptised to actually have a marriage. Jadwiga supposedly had a vision from God telling her to accept the marriage.
I don't know if that is true, and I don't know if her husband's conversion was "geniuine" and he really believed Jesus was the son of God. But I tend to give all converts the benefit of the doubt, he has not done anything to show some relapse so no the marriage was not between a Christian and a pagan, but between two Christians. But I'm pretty sure your wrong if you said they really loved each other again, Jadwiga was 12 and he was 35 when they married. It was a political marriage, hell they probably did not even become intimate until years later since Jadwiga was without child for over a decade. It's just a dynastic political marriage. And again there was forced conversion the king also made laws requiring conversion of people who married a Catholic. That's something a Muslim ruler would do. Again their story was not some Romeo and Julliet thing where two people on diffrent sides marry for love. Medieval Christian Europe was not a disney movie.
However I don't feel comfortable talking about other's history without review so I'll ask some Polish people to check if I made any errors.
@Marduk
@ATP
Can you tell us about Jadwiga please, and correct me if I said something wrong.
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
Isn't this contradictory? You are complaining about Muslims calling them backwards, and you are complaining about modern day Christians for being cucked. I mean the changes that made modern Christians act like "cucks" are "progress" and "advancing" away from the "primitive backwardness" of the medieval Christendom.
What would be the ideal way for a religion to act?
Oh I know, I'm not saying Jews are pure angels and always victims. They are people like any other when in power they have oppressed other groups like the early Christians. When they were out of power they were oppressed. Groups act differently based on their current status, again Jews are human and all human groups have these survival strategies.