Optymist.
Muslim Europe vs old good commie China,i fear.
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- Thread starter Captain X
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Muslim Europe vs old good commie China,i fear.
My mind got full of flashbacks to the Chinese campaign of Command and Conquer Generals Zero Hour.
Final War: Islam vs Communism.
Will there be nukes? Of course there'll be nukes!
And Mormonism will rise from the ashes to conquer the stars.
Typhonis
Well-known member
If Pastafarianism doesn't beat them to the punch.
Are they the lesser evil? Islam has demonstrated the ability to hold entire nations in thrall for centuries, while Communism... has not. Modern China is communist in name only.
Also - Communists tend to be so overt and in-your-face about their Atheism that they might as well be openly telling you "We're the bad guys and Jesus is the Good Guy!"
mrttao
Well-known member
Can hardly call Communists atheists, as they are clearly a cult.
They suppress religions, because they are competition.
They are a religion that has no god. It deifies the State instead of a God.
Typhonis
Well-known member
Like Fascism did. Is Socialism also a cult?
King Arts
Well-known member
Yes, it is the lesser evil. Looking at it under a materialistic lense Islam is merely a political system that bennefits Arab culture. Many nations have prospered and built empires while running under Islam. The various Caliphates and the Turks are proof that the people of Islamic empires can thrive.
The only reason Islam is evil is because Christianity is the truth. But if Christianity was a false faith then the Turks, or Ummayuds or Abbasids, or the Mughals are not that much worse than the Ancien Regime of France, or the Hapsburgs of Spain or Austria, or the Romanovs of Russia, or the English, etc.
Again Islam is worse because they replace local cultures with Arabic culture so it's Arabic supremacism, while early Christianity allowed local culture to thrive. However the Catholics and Protestants moved away from how the Eastern Christians and the early Church handled things and did do cultural replacement.
So if Christianity was false it would be no worse than the Catholic or Protestant confessional states.
A religion with no afterlife has no hope. So some group that forces others to abandon the hope of an afterlife must be purged.
Final War: Islam vs Communism.
Will there be nukes? Of course there'll be nukes!
Then,if they burn each other,we would have kind of Happy End.
Considering that young Marx wrote poems about luciper,it is satanism.
And,if i must choose,i would choose islam...althought merry death for everybody would be even better option here.
Skitzyfrenic
Well-known member
Ultimately, even Capitalism is a cult. It's a belief.
But unlike Socialism, Communism, and Fascism, Capitalism doesn't require people to fellate the ideology to function.
You can just exist inside a Capitalist society. You must believe in the others in order from them to function.
Of course, all four of the aforementioned ideologies require state enforcement. Ideally, we should be moving to post-Capitalism. Morons believe that this means Socialism or Communism, when it really means the decentralization of the economy.
mrttao
Well-known member
I believe that the sky is blue and gravity pulls me down.
Yet this does not make me part of the "blueskyism religion" or the "gravitydown religion"
Not every belief is a religion.
You said yourself that communism requires you to fellate the ideology to function.
Fellate is a crass way of saying "worship". You must actively worship Communism. Rather than just casually believe in it
More importantly. rather than a belief based on facts and evidence, it is a blind belief.
No, worse... it is a doublethink belief. Merely blinding yourself to truth is not enough. You must actively internalize self contradictions in the name of the faith
mrttao
Well-known member
The ferengi, ironically, do not worship capitalism. They worship money and profiteering.
With many of their actions being actively anti-capitalist.
Of course, communists love to straw man capitalism...
But then their straw man is always literally socialism. "Late stage capitalism" is literally socialism.
No it's not?
Capitalism, as most simply defined, is the state of nature. People have thing they have (own) and they can choose to use those things to exchange with others people things they have (barter). Money is just a universal thing people want in order to facilitate trade. I mean, the idea of investing money with others for a return on investment is so old and widely understood that Christ Himself used the concept as the basis for parable (the Parable of the Talents), heck, that Parable is so well known and its meaning so inoculated into Western Civilization that the word "Talent", which was originally a form of CURRENCY, now means "the skills a person is good with".
So yeah, I have trouble calling "capitalism" a "belief" when basically every society naturally developed capitalism on its own, and other systems have to be artificially enforced in a top down manner. No, seriously, think about it, capitalism, AKA Free Markets, are the natural state. Other major economic forms that have arisen in history, things like Palace Economies or Communism, ALWAYS require a centralized state to enforce, and also always ends up having issues of scale.
Skitzyfrenic
Well-known member
I did seriously think about it, and I find you to be, ultimately, wrong. I do believe you to be more right than the commies/fascists/socialists in this case, but given that's a low bar I'm sure it doesn't mean anything to you.
I had an argument/explanation here, been working on the exact wording for a couple hours actually to get my points across, but my head is killing me, and I don't want to keep staring at my computer screen.
So I'm just going to say, I don't fully agree with you; I think Capitalism is a belief the same way the others are, just more reflective of reality in a society with an techbase that's heavily reliant on specialization; I don't consider a basic barter economy to be Capitalist, it's too primitive, which feeds into Capitalism being an actual ideology and not a pure reflection of the world in ideological form; and I'm not really up for a longer conversation, if that's alright?
Yeah, that's fine and I hope you feel better.
It seems we're working from different definitions of "Capitalism", and that might be why you arrive at a different conclusion. If we're defining Capitalism most broadly, that is, an environment where people own their labor and things and may exchange them at will with other for agreed upon payment, then I think that this is close to a state of nature, even in hunter/gatherer tribes with minimal specialization. Meanwhile, if you insist that even such primitive barter situations aren't, but that features such as banking and interest, etc. must exist in order for there to capitalism, you do end up having a bunch of shared "beliefs" to make the system work.
Perhaps the most foundation shared belief that is necessary for economics to function is the idea of "money", that is, a medium for exchange that is not direct barter. That money has value is a belief that must be shared by people in order for it to be useful, but again, it's one that developed separately across the entire world in numerous ways. While it is a belief, it is such a common one that I think it ends up being almost a natural aspect of human exchange. Humans are tool users, after all, and money is, at it's basis, a tool to make barter easier and more manageable, thus while there must be a shared societal agreement that X thing is money, and a shared belief that X thing has that value, money itself is not actually a belief, but an inherent tool of humanity to enable exchange.
Again, the concept of money is so old, it's a thing talked about across numerous ancient texts. Money is talked about in the Bible EXTENSIVELY and treated simply as a fact of human civilization in a ubiquitous sort of way. Likewise wisdom in regards to money is found in ancient Chinese writings. It's truly a ubiquitous idea for human civilization...