Meme Thread for Both Posting and Discussing Memes
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Simonbob
Well-known member
Sorry, I haven't seen it in years. When I went looking today, there was a bunch of small studies that claimed it was nothing. Tiny studies, I'm not caring much about less than a 100 people studies.
Wargamer08
Well-known member
My understanding of it is that conservatives are tired of regretful ex-Democrats saddling on up, and deciding that they should be in charge. The vast majority of said ex-Democrats still hold basically nothing in common with them. The ex-Democrats still believe in liberal dogma, they still hold to leftist values. Despite this, said ex-Democrats sure do insist that in order to get their support conservatives need to change pretty much every right wing policy to be the Democrat policy from about ten years ago. Said ex-Democrats then get increasingly shrill when they are told that their policies are totally incongruent with basic core conservative values and if adopted as they insist would fundamentally shatter the conservative base. This makes ex-Democrats come across as either saboteurs, grifters or opportunists.
There are more Independents than Dems or GOP base; appealing only to a hardcore base of trad-cons won't win elections.
In fact, without ex-Dems and and Independents voting R, the GOP would have little to no power as is.
Trad-cons can bitch all they want about ex-Dems and Independents having a say in what stances and platforms the GOP takes, but they won't get any shit they want without us.
Edit: The Dems and Left, even in their hardcore base, seem to understand the power of Independent voters and why they cannot win without them. If the hardcore base of the Right cannot understand the same and only wants a purity spiral, then the GOP will not have much power at all.
Wargamer08
Well-known member
You don't have a party without a base. Period. You can emphasize or play down different parts of the base to attract unaffiliated voters, but unaffiliated voters don't decide what the base is. This is people fleeing the harsh taxes and insane civil governing of California for other states, then insisting on the same policies that created what they left.
I honestly think us more moderate types would be better off forming a party of our own, and simply forming a coalition with other parties which are not authoritarians to fight said authoritarians. It would be nice, in the meantime, if conservatives could save arguing about evolution until after we've kicked the commies out of the government and other institutions, though.
Wargamer08
Well-known member
You knew what the conservative base was well before you went to them. If you can't close your eyes to the parts you disagree with in favor of the parts you do, then vote independent or start a third party. Politics is the art of choosing which compromises to make. Again, unaffiliated or ex-Democrats voters are the supplicants, not the conservatives.
If meaningless ideological differences like evolution is enough to push you back to the marxism of the Left, well you're likely a bad fit to begin with. One is counting angels on pin heads, the other is counting all the money you now owe the government.
Yeah, this is exactly what I'm getting at. I'd also point out that us more moderate types shouldn't be the only ones expected to compromise. After all, this is the lament of the gun rights' side when discussing how all the "compromises" made on that front have only ever been one-sided.
It's not that anyone is at risk of being pushed back to the other side, it's that the refusal to set aside what are, realistically speaking, minor differences, in the face of an existential threat, will only leave us divided and much easier for the other side to conquer.
Simonbob
Well-known member
Judging by current elections, and the decisions Our Dear Leaders make? There are close to zero actual right wing leaders, regardless of party.
So who gives a shit about elections? The same shits are going to win, until they get bad enough that the middle gets up and kills them.
Besides, judging by how the extreme Left has been doing, and how effective its been? Being a harsh scumbag, with as many fellow bastards seems like a winning tactic! There's a reason most people are afraid to say "Nigger" and "Trans means insane".
Tax!
Wargamer08
Well-known member
If you walk into a church it's going to have crosses all over the place. If you walk into a right wing organization it's going to be at least moderately religious. Insisting that the crosses need to go isn't a compromise, it's missing the point. Maybe don't pick fights with the organization you're looking to join and influence? I swear ex-Democrats feel like they gotta engage and agree with every part of a platform, that can only happen in a party you found yourself.
The theory of evolution and support for it is not a 'meaningless ideological difference', nor is it at odds with anything except young earth creationism.
That you would even consider it as such is actually rather frightening. This is a fight that was over a long time ago, the evidence overwhelmingly supports the theory of evolution, and trying to make it a political fight again is pretty much the stupidest thing people on the Right can try to do.
That people still see the theory of evolution as a matter of religion vs atheism is a sad commentary on the level of intelligence of quite a few people on the Right, and how twisted their views of science and religion are.
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
Very well-said.
Coming in to prove exactly Wargamer's point.
The Conservative right has had a general outlook and policy since at least the time of Reagan:
We don't compromise on core principles to win votes. We convince others that our position will in fact benefit them as well as us, and win them over to the truth instead.
We may compromise on side issues, like drug legalization, or going for serious welfare reform instead of removing it altogether, but we aren't compromising on God, Family, and small government. If you can't understand that those are the core principles of American conservatism, then either pick us as the lesser evil compared to the left, or as Wargamer said, go form your own party.
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Simonbob
Well-known member
Bacle, there's a problem with what you're saying, and it's not just my Blackpilled ass noticing it.
If you really beleve something, you should not compromise. Not at all. If somebody convinces you there's more going on, sure you should re-think it a bit, but it you're sure, you should not bend an inch.
We're not political party hacks, Bacle. We're not the GOP, or the LOLbertarians. We're not the people who need to win votes. We're just talking with people we're acquainted with, here, on a free site.
There's quite a bit we agree with you on. But, we can, and do, choose to stand with our actual beliefs, whether some people like it or not. That that's only possible on a site that is both Free Speech and Right aligned, well, that says terrible things.
I'd love a viable third party, because fuck the two party system.
Thinking that believing in evolution at all conflicts with the goals of the GOP is part of the twisted way some religious groups have lied about the theory of evolution and misrepresented it as a issue of religion vs atheism. Believing in the theory of evolution does not conflict with religion at all, unless you are a young earth creationist.
And if the base of the GOP are mostly closet, or not so closet, young earth creationists, then no wonder why it took Trump, an ex-Dem, and his broader appeal to get the GOP out of the hole it dug itself under Bush Jr.
You do not win elections or accomplish anything politically via subtraction of votes, and that's all this stupid purity spiral trad-cons get into does, drive people away.
You don't want to compromise your beliefs, fine, I can respect that; just understand that if the GOP decides to make the theory of evolution the hill it wants to fight on, and lose on, again, you can do it without the support of the Independents. What will happen is trad-cons will be primaried out more and more, they will lose more and more of the shrinking hold they have on the modern, populist Right, and will fade away into irrelevancy.
Simonbob
Well-known member
As it happens, I do consider evolution to be by far the most likely theory about the creation of humans, but, like all science, it could still be wrong.
And you still miss the point. Politics is the mass, and the profession. We're not in that circle. We don't have to give a shit about things that are against what we know, for the sake of building more power.
So, will you stop whinging about the GOP? They're not us.
Missing the point would be saying that I'm telling you to hide your crosses when all I'm asking is that you save shit like pulling out the Young Earth Creationism until after the shit with the commies is settled. I'm also suggesting that rather than all joining one party, that we instead separate into parties more suited to our actual platforms and simply cooperate on things we actually all agree on (like kicking the Commies out) so you don't have to whine about ex-Democrats trying to take over your party.
Not that I've ever been a Democrat, incidentally.ETA: Bacle make s a pretty good point about Trump being an ex-Dem who actually getting the GoP out of the rut it had gotten itself stuck into, though. Just something of an example to consider. Well, that and the idea of, would you rather have liberty-minded people who respect your right to worship as you see fit, but don't want you trying to force others to live by it by doing things like changing school curriculums to keep them from discussing basic biology, or leftist authoritarians who do not respect any aspect of your existence, would just as soon throw you into a gulag as anything else, and are doing everything they can to indoctrinate your children by changing school curriculums to keep them from even acknowledging basic biology (ironically enough)? Maybe that would be a better illustration of what I mean by compromise.
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Simonbob
Well-known member
Question, who is talking about Creationism, anyway? There's no Australian Poli I can think of who does, and even in the more strange places in the Net, I can only think of one guy, and he's mostly "Evolution isn't proven, here's some flaws, and as a serious Christian, I think Creationism is more accurate."
Who's suggesting Creationism in schools? (And the stuff the Left is throwing in, well, it's much worse than something relatively benign as Creationism.)
Although, the more serious Islamic groups in Australia....... Hm.
I kind of mixed up threads. One of these other threads has a post about some Republican going on about it. It makes things awkward for those of us who aren't creationists to have would-be allies essentially use the fact the lefties are pushing CRT and sexually grooming children as an excuse to push their fundamentalism - "roll everything back" essentially.
Simonbob
Well-known member
Given the choice between the two, I'll go Creationism, but only if that's the only other option.
The whole CRT etc is really bad.
Still, I wonder if the Creationism talk is as common as all that. If it's a tiny, tiny minority of GOP, the Media could make a massive deal about it, even if there was no way it'd happen.
It might not be, but you still have people on here who are arguing that point. Meanwhile I'd rather just let schools teach basic biology and not have any kind of ideological indoctrination going on.