Breaking News January 6th Stop the Steal Rally & Capitol Breaching/Storming

I thought the Jan 6th prisoners weren't part of the group being moved.

The article says the central facility was where they found the issues and the Jan 6th people were in a treatment facility and they said them staying there was fine.

I think this might be the opposite of a win.

The regular prisoners are being moved due to health concerns but the political prisoners can stay.

Weren't Mtg and another senator just denied access to the Jan 6th prisoners?
 
Well that's interesting. Can't wait to see how the news spins it, assuming they don't just cover it up.
 
Rusty Shackleford said:
January 6 people have a harder time defending their actions because they did in fact storm the Capitol building illegally
Click to expand...

Replying to avoid a de-rail in the Rittenhouse thread.

It was only illegal to enter the Capitol building under the Covid restrictions on entering the capitol - pre-covid demonstrations have entered the capitol, including the house and senate while they were in session, numerous times. While technically covid restrictions meant the capitol was closed to visitors and that entering was trespassing, the idea that this "legitimized leftist talking points" is a bit ridiculous.
 
LindyAF said:
Replying to avoid a de-rail in the Rittenhouse thread.

It was only illegal to enter the Capitol building under the Covid restrictions on entering the capitol - pre-covid demonstrations have entered the capitol, including the house and senate while they were in session, numerous times. While technically covid restrictions meant the capitol was closed to visitors and that entering was trespassing, the idea that this "legitimized leftist talking points" is a bit ridiculous.
Click to expand...
One also has to keep in mind that many were outright invited in by the authorities present at the scene, which undermines the argument that they were there ilegally.
 
LindyAF said:
It was only illegal to enter the Capitol building under the Covid restrictions on entering the capitol - pre-covid demonstrations have entered the capitol, including the house and senate while they were in session, numerous times. While technically covid restrictions meant the capitol was closed to visitors and that entering was trespassing, the idea that this "legitimized leftist talking points" is a bit ridiculous.
Click to expand...
This is what I care about.
18 U.S. Code § 1752 - Restricted building or grounds
prev next
(a)Whoever—
(1)
knowingly enters or remains in any restricted building or grounds without lawful authority to do so;
(2)
knowingly, and with intent to impede or disrupt the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions, engages in disorderly or disruptive conduct in, or within such proximity to, any restricted building or grounds when, or so that, such conduct, in fact, impedes or disrupts the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions;
(3)
knowingly, and with the intent to impede or disrupt the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions, obstructs or impedes ingress or egress to or from any restricted building or grounds; or [1]
(4)
knowingly engages in any act of physical violence against any person or property in any restricted building or grounds; [2]
(5)
knowingly and willfully operates an unmanned aircraft system with the intent to knowingly and willfully direct or otherwise cause such unmanned aircraft system to enter or operate within or above a restricted building or grounds;
or attempts or conspires to do so, shall be punished as provided in subsection (b).
(b)The punishment for a violation of subsection (a) is—
(1)a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than 10 years, or both, if—
(A)
the person, during and in relation to the offense, uses or carries a deadly or dangerous weapon or firearm; or
(B)
the offense results in significant bodily injury as defined by section 2118(e)(3); and
(2)
a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than one year, or both, in any other case.
(c)In this section—
(1)the term “restricted buildings or grounds” means any posted, cordoned off, or otherwise restricted area—
(A)
of the White House or its grounds, or the Vice President’s official residence or its grounds;
(B)
of a building or grounds where the President or other person protected by the Secret Service is or will be temporarily visiting; or
(C)
of a building or grounds so restricted in conjunction with an event designated as a special event of national significance; and
(2)
the term “other person protected by the Secret Service” means any person whom the United States Secret Service is authorized to protect under section 3056 of this title or by Presidential memorandum, when such person has not declined such protection.
(Added Pub. L. 91–644, title V, § 18, Jan. 2, 1971, 84 Stat. 1891; amended Pub. L. 97–308, § 1, Oct. 14, 1982, 96 Stat. 1451; Pub. L. 98–587, § 3(b), Oct. 30, 1984, 98 Stat. 3112; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(G), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147; Pub. L. 109–177, title VI, § 602(a), (b)(1), Mar. 9, 2006, 120 Stat. 252; Pub. L. 112–98, § 2, Mar. 8, 2012, 126 Stat. 263; Pub. L. 115–254, div. B, title III, § 381, Oct. 5, 2018, 132 Stat. 3320.)
Click to expand...
None of the protestors had permits to protest within the Capitol Building which was holding an event of national significance. Everyone of them entered with the express intent of bothering the operation of the Government at the very least. Property was destroyed and a few were hurt in physical altercations.

The fact that people weren't charged with protesting before within the confines of the building doesn't mean it wasn't illegal, but that either there was nothing to be gained by doing so or that not all criteria was met to charge them successfully. (IE: There wasn't anything nationally significant enough going on or they weren't being seen as openly or intentionally attempting to overtly interfere with government operations.)

Let's not beat around the bush here. The January 6th 'Stop The Steal' was only ever about maintaining Donald J. Trump as President and yet despite that by the time it was held there was no legitimate way or chance to reverse that outcome by protesting as the EC who are the real final say in American elections had determined Joe Biden to be President love it or hate it, Trump win or no-win.

The protestors never had any means of accomplishing their goals and when the opportunity presented itself they stormed the Capitol Building in an attempt to stop the election for their cause in a blind fit of zealously to the point they couldn't see the outcome that any idiot in their right mind could see coming as a forgone conclusion to that action.

And yes they did screw us over big time. Politics is all about winning and swaying the middle ground either be it for peace with voting or to present yourself as the most reasonable side in a probable up coming civil conflict and the January 6th protestors made us seem to be the ones against stability by engaging in an idiotic act that the dems could easily construe as an attempted coup made by the right.

The January 6th riots will go down with Watergate and Iran-Contra as means the left will use to justify any illegal or amoral activity on their part as 'whataboutism' especially in regards to election fraud.

And for the record. I don't like the way the protestors are treated inhumanely for matters of legal precedent and human rights, but that doesn't mean I feel d*mned bothered enough to try and give anyone of these idiots the dignity of remembering their names.
Terthna said:
One also has to keep in mind that many were outright invited in by the authorities present at the scene, which undermines the argument that they were there ilegally.
Click to expand...
It distributes some of the blame to others sure, but it's still illegal. For an example to demonstrate...

A family in your neighborhood is going on vacation. They hire a house-sitter to take care of their home while their away and the night after they leave while you are driving home from work you see a house party being held at the home. You stop, get out, and then walk up to the front door to see the house-sitter beckoning you inside and then despite knowing he has no real authority to hold this party proceed to trash the place anyway.

In that scenario would you or the house sitter be at fault? I would say both and the same can be said about the protestors and the police that let them into the Capitol without authorization or law to support it.
Bigking321 said:
Plus all the federal agents and antifa people in the crowd agitating the people and leading them in while the capital police moved barriers aside, opened up doors, and waved them in.

It was a setup.
Click to expand...
That's a maybe, but the protestors were still fools for going along with it, and deserve all of the condemnation for it they can take. I would like to think that if any sensible conservative were teleported into a BLM protest that they wouldn't resort to baser instinct and go along with rioting and whatever the rioters propose and I expected the same from January 6th protestors.

In short, it's our duty to ensure that we never let January 6th happen again like the left wants even if it means dragging our brethren kicking and screaming away from whatever stupid act they are trying to accomplish which will lead us to ruin.

The left will blink someday in a way that will alienate themselves completely from the average American and until they do, it's our duty to hold ourselves to higher standards and to not blink first.
 
Last edited:
Rusty Shackleford said:
It distributes some of the blame to others sure, but it's still illegal. For an example to demonstrate...

A family in your neighborhood is going on vacation. They hire a house-sitter to take care of their home while their away and the night after they leave while you are driving home from work you see a house party being held at the home. You stop, get out, and then walk up to the front door to see the house-sitter beckoning you inside and then despite knowing he has no real authority to hold this party proceed to trash the place anyway.

In that scenario would you or the house sitter be at fault? I would say both and the same can be said about the protestors and the police that let them into the Capitol without authorization or law to support it.
Click to expand...
Still, the most you'd be guilty of in that scenerio is tresspassing and vandalism; and maybe theft, if you took anything while you were there. None of which justifies treatment akin to what the January 6th protestors have received.
 
Terthna said:
Still, the most you'd be guilty of in that scenerio is tresspassing and vandalism; and maybe theft, if you took anything while you were there. None of which justifies treatment akin to what the January 6th protestors have received.
Click to expand...

This is, to my knowledge, a fair point. They are overwhelmingly facing nothing more than none violent trespassing charges, the sort of detention and confinement they've been made to put up with pre-trial is absurdly harsh in comparison to the charges.

It's gotten to the point a federal judge has complained that the prosecution is going into hysterics about terrorism and threats to democracy in the trials, where the person is only charged for a misdemeanor trespassing charge and nothing more.
 
Rusty Shackleford said:
This is what I care about.

None of the protestors had permits to protest within the Capitol Building which was holding an event of national significance. Everyone of them entered with the express intent of bothering the operation of the Government at the very least. Property was destroyed and a few were hurt in physical altercations.

The fact that people weren't charged with protesting before within the confines of the building doesn't mean it wasn't illegal, but that either there was nothing to be gained by doing so or that not all criteria was met to charge them successfully. (IE: There wasn't anything nationally significant enough going on or they weren't being seen as openly or intentionally attempting to overtly interfere with government operations.)

Let's not beat around the bush here. The January 6th 'Stop The Steal' was only ever about maintaining Donald J. Trump as President and yet despite that by the time it was held there was no legitimate way or chance to reverse that outcome by protesting as the EC who are the real final say in American elections had determined Joe Biden to be President love it or hate it, Trump win or no-win.

The protestors never had any means of accomplishing their goals and when the opportunity presented itself they stormed the Capitol Building in an attempt to stop the election for their cause in a blind fit of zealously to the point they couldn't see the outcome that any idiot in their right mind could see coming as a forgone conclusion to that action.

And yes they did screw us over big time. Politics is all about winning and swaying the middle ground either be it for peace with voting or to present yourself as the most reasonable side in a probable up coming civil conflict and the January 6th protestors made us seem to be the ones against stability by engaging in an idiotic act that the dems could easily construe as an attempted coup made by the right.

The January 6th riots will go down with Watergate and Iran-Contra as means the left will use to justify any illegal or amoral activity on their part as 'whataboutism' especially in regards to election fraud.

And for the record. I don't like the way the protestors are treated inhumanely for matters of legal precedent and human rights, but that doesn't mean I feel d*mned bothered enough to try and give anyone of these idiots the dignity of remembering their names.

It distributes some of the blame to others sure, but it's still illegal. For an example to demonstrate...

A family in your neighborhood is going on vacation. They hire a house-sitter to take care of their home while their away and the night after they leave while you are driving home from work you see a house party being held at the home. You stop, get out, and then walk up to the front door to see the house-sitter beckoning you inside and then despite knowing he has no real authority to hold this party proceed to trash the place anyway.

In that scenario would you or the house sitter be at fault? I would say both and the same can be said about the protestors and the police that let them into the Capitol without authorization or law to support it.

That's a maybe, but the protestors were still fools for going along with it, and deserve all of the condemnation for it they can take. I would like to think that if any sensible conservative were teleported into a BLM protest that they wouldn't resort to baser instinct and go along with rioting and whatever the rioters propose and I expected the same from January 6th protestors.

In short, it's our duty to ensure that we never let January 6th happen again like the left wants even if it means dragging our brethren kicking and screaming away from whatever stupid act they are trying to accomplish which will lead us to ruin.

The left will blink someday in a way that will alienate themselves completely from the average American and until they do, it's our duty to hold ourselves to higher standards and to not blink first.
Click to expand...
To be fair, your view is the one the media has been trying to push, and your view also is more about anger at the results of Jan 6th, I think, than about the crowds who were legally let into the Capital while others broke in.

And yes, the difference fucking matter. People who broke in via smashing windows or knocking down barricades deserve charges, people who entered the doors after the cops allowed them in do not deserve trespassing charges, and you damn well know a lot of the people who did damage that day were undercover Antifa and co who wanted to create a Riechstag moment.

Yes, Jan 6th is a black eye for the Right, but not because the Right actually set it off or is directly responsible for it, but because of continued lies about what happened that day being pushed by the press and Left. Not to mention all the FBI and Antifa undercovers who have been found to have agitated the crowd and broke down the first barricades.

I do think Trump should have been more careful in vetting who came to the rally that day, but it was also a public event so random could easily get into it. I also think that had the normal counting session not been interrupted, maybe enough objections about the vote counts would have come up from GOP reps to force the shoddy state counts to be redone; the people who broke in ruined that, but the people legally let in did not. There is a reason I never attended a Trump event, and the crowd on Jan 6th showed why; too easy for bad actors to start something the crowd just goes along with because they have incomplete info or are just riled up.

Half the reason the Jan 6th shit has seemed so bad is because few on the right or left seem to care about the truth of what happened anymore and the fact that due process is being denied to most of the defendents from that day, while acting like either Jan 6th was completely righteous or complete folly, instead of accepting it's a nuanced thing that involved a lot of bad actors doing their own thing and trying to get the crowd to follow them.
 
Bacle said:
I do think Trump should have been more careful in vetting who came to the rally that day
Click to expand...
Of all the places I disagree with you, this is among the least expected. What control over attendance are you thinking he should have exerted? Like you said it was open to the public so the only power he'd have that I can think of is being careful who he physically transported there.
 
strunkenwhite said:
Of all the places I disagree with you, this is among the least expected. What control over attendance are you thinking he should have exerted? Like you said it was open to the public so the only power he'd have that I can think of is being careful who he physically transported there.
Click to expand...
I think Trump should have had people at the entrances to where his rally was being held cross checking attendees names against a list of his supporters and known Antifa members.

In general I think Trump did not put enough effort into trying to screen out bad actors and agent provacutuers from his rallies and events.

Like, Trump's own campaign couldn't be arsed to cross check donor lists when they mass spammed email and text demands for donations, so people got demands for more donations a couple minutes after they had just made a donation.

Trump's personnel management and selection skills for his campaign, and his White House, were subpar in the full accounting, and there is a reason I prefer DeSantis for 2024.
 
Bacle said:
I think Trump should have had people at the entrances to where his rally was being held cross checking attendees names against a list of his supporters and known Antifa members.

In general I think Trump did not put enough effort into trying to screen out bad actors and agent provacutuers from his rallies and events.

Like, Trump's own campaign couldn't be arsed to cross check donor lists when they mass spammed email and text demands for donations, so people got demands for more donations a couple minutes after they had just made a donation.

Trump's personnel management and selection skills for his campaign, and his White House, were subpar in the full accounting, and there is a reason I prefer DeSantis for 2024.
Click to expand...
Shit was going down at the Capitol while Trump was still giving his speech.

I don't think vetting attendees for this was even possible, that's a public area.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top