In defense of pedophiles

[Deleted member]

Unfortunately, in my experience, remaining calm while discussing pedophilia is completely impossible for most people. It's one of the reasons why cracking down on pedos is the go-to excuse for taking away your rights; because it's rare to see any push-back when it's used.




The slippery slope fallacy is just that, a fallacy, and it's not a valid reason to take the opposite extreme position. Just because something can be taken too far, does not mean it has to; because honestly? Anything can be taken too far. We don't have to pick one side or the other, we can choose a happy medium between two extremes.




I'm sure the regressive left would agree with you, with the small caveat of what label they think should see you "ostracized and fired". In any event though, what you're arguing is moot in my opinion; the public does not want to know about your sexual fetishes, whatever they might be. That sort of thing should be kept on the down-low regardless; but unfortunately, the regressive left and its obsession with identitarianism encourages the opposite, which in my opinion is at the root of what you're complaining about. They should let go of this idea that every part of them needs to be accepted by everyone else; it's never going to happen, and trying to force it will just make things worse.

That aside; what makes pedophilia so special? Snuff, guro, vore, cannibalism, mind control; these and many more are all monstrous fetishes, from an objective point of view, and yet nobody seems to care about them nearly as much as they do pedophilia. They all have their own communities, and yet I haven't seen hide nor hair of an advocacy group pushing the idea that you need to accept them as "normal".




What you're suggesting is nothing short of a witch hunt. We shouldn't be punishing people for having thoughts we don't like, because we don't want to be punished for having thoughts someone else doesn't like.

No, because nowhere do I or did I suggest that we go around actively looking for paedophiles!

 

[FriedCFour]

That aside; what makes pedophilia so special? Snuff, guro, vore, cannibalism, mind control; these and many more are all monstrous fetishes, from an objective point of view, and yet nobody seems to care about them nearly as much as they do pedophilia. They all have their own communities, and yet I haven't seen hide nor hair of an advocacy group pushing the idea that you need to accept them as "normal".

They are all fucked, but pedophiles are both more common and more dangerous. There is a handful of cases of sexual cannibalism. There are millions of molested children. On top of that none of the rest have the acceptance movement quite like pedophiles. Salon isn’t writing articles for virtuous cannibals. Pederastry and pedophilia being normalized and justified is what you need to worry about there. You say slippery slope, but that shit is real. We aren’t too far away from someone saying “I am a NOMAP” and being hired to work at a school to fill a diversity quota. And when you defend their ability to find work as open pedophiles, should that disqualify you from working anywhere near a child? I think so, and personally I wouldn’t generally hire anyone openly a pedophile. Why should I?

 

[Deleted member]

The bottom line is that like a Typhoid Mary, if and when the government finds out someone is a paedophile, there’s excellent and defensible legal justifications to force them to receive treatment even if they never committed a crime, because, like Typhoid Mary, they’re an unacceptable risk to others. But this isn’t a witch hunt because nobody is proposing mandatory psychiatric testing for everyone in the country or anything else absurd like that.

 

[Big Steve]

What does "MAP"/"NOMAP" mean?

 

[Terthna]

The problem is that as with many controversial mental illnesses, pedophilia tends to come in a package of minor mental disorders that make the case worse than in theory you would imagine "pedophile = attracted to children, just like the average heterosexual is attracted to attractive adult members of opposite sex, yet most aren't raping them".
In case of pedophiles, that's quite different, most of them struggle to control themselves around children. Some successfully, a lot of them not so much.
That's how you get pedophiles who get downright ridiculous and rationally indefensible ideas like this, as they try to bend their view of reality to justify their urges:

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I wish there was more psychological research into pedophilia; because I feel like we're basically arguing opinions. I mean, there's no question that a sizable portion of pedophiles are as you describe, but what percentage are they of the total? That's not even getting into how "lolicons" factor into things; most of them seem perfectly content wanking it to underaged anime girls, so do they even count as pedophiles? If so, they'd probably skew the numbers against what you're suggesting.

They are all fucked, but pedophiles are both more common and more dangerous. There is a handful of cases of sexual cannibalism. There are millions of molested children. On top of that none of the rest have the acceptance movement quite like pedophiles. Salon isn’t writing articles for virtuous cannibals. Pederastry and pedophilia being normalized and justified is what you need to worry about there. You say slippery slope, but that shit is real. We aren’t too far away from someone saying “I am a NOMAP” and being hired to work at a school to fill a diversity quota. And when you defend their ability to find work as open pedophiles, should that disqualify you from working anywhere near a child? I think so, and personally I wouldn’t generally hire anyone openly a pedophile. Why should I?

I'm not saying you should. Personally I wouldn't hire you, because I find you to be a detestable human being in general; but that's neither here nor there. Regardless, all I'm suggesting is that you acknowledge that not all pedophiles are child molesters, and that they should be able to seek help if they want to, without fear of destroying their lives in the process. If you're dead set on rejecting that premise, I don't think I can convince you otherwise.

The bottom line is that like a Typhoid Mary, if and when the government finds out someone is a paedophile, there’s excellent and defensible legal justifications to force them to receive treatment even if they never committed a crime, because, like Typhoid Mary, they’re an unacceptable risk to others. But this isn’t a witch hunt because nobody is proposing mandatory psychiatric testing for everyone in the country or anything else absurd like that.

No, it isn't; nor should it be. You'd be laying the groundwork for someone else to argue that conservatives are an unacceptable risk to others. Bare minimum the regressive left would argue that you, as a person who has argued in favor of fascism, should be tossed into a re-education camp; for your own good. Which isn't even getting into what form said "treatment" would take, without the option for the patient to end it if it isn't working out for them. Do the words "conversion therapy" ring a bell for you?

We should be offering treatment for those who wish to seek it, not forcing it on them; that's a one-way ticket to most pedophiles going underground, and then you've helped no one.

 

[Scottty]

This is going into the land of "pre-crime" - someone who has done nothing wrong being "treated" (ie punished) for what they might do.

 

[FriedCFour]

Personally I wouldn't hire you, because I find you to be a detestable human being in general; but that's neither here nor there. Regardless, all I'm suggesting is that you acknowledge that not all pedophiles are child molesters, and that they should be able to seek help if they want to, without fear of destroying their lives in the process. If you're dead set on rejecting that premise, I don't think I can convince you otherwise.

Why am I detestable? I literally was prepared to help you find work as a complete stranger, spend hours of my own time to try and help you with zero reward. But I agree that they aren’t all child molesters, should be able to seek help without destroying their lives in the process. I would just also add that they should be encouraged to seek help, that help is not found in by pedophile for pedophile advocacy groups, and that if you go around openly touting yourself as a pedophile as your identity and asking for acceptance and tolerance without any remorse or treatment you deserve all the ire in the world.

 

[FriedCFour]

This is going into the land of "pre-crime" - someone who has done nothing wrong being "treated" (ie punished) for what they might do.

No more than treating someone with depression for what they might do to themselves, only here the imperative is higher because of the danger to society they present.

What does "MAP"/"NOMAP" mean?

MAP is minor attracted person and NOMAP is non offending minor attracted person. They are labels that some pedophiles in this new day and age attach to themselves to openly proclaim themselves pedophiles and edge into the LGBT advocacy and protections that they get with the same sort of arguments that they had to get gay marriage passed, ie “love is love” “born this way” etc.

 

[Deleted member 88]

The "slippery slope fallacy" is itself a rhetorical trick.

It implies that B need not follow A. But what if someone wants B to follow A?

It doesn't really apply to politics or human agendas. Its use should be limited to just logic.

Conservatives were accused of the slippery slope fallacy and turned out to be right. Either the slippery slope isn't a fallacy, or it simply doesn't apply here, and its use is designed to shut down suspicion.

 

[FriedCFour]

Conservatives were accused of the slippery slope fallacy and turned out to be right. Either the slippery slope isn't a fallacy, or it simply doesn't apply here, and its use is designed to shut down suspicion.

We went from gay marriage and “only in the bedroom” to bake the cake bigot and being taught in schools, to child drag queens in strip clubs being brought into mainstream national tv, drag queen story times ran by child molesters tax payer funded. The slippery slope is not a fallacy. It happens, one thing can in fact lead to another.

And with the “well the left says the right is dangerous too” sure, but they can’t prove that. There isn’t meaningful or real data to show that. Meanwhile the other group wants to rape children at a rate of 100% of the entire population of said group, because it is by definition what makes you a pedophile. You are absolutely and necessarily a danger to society by being a part of it because you feel a compulsion to commit harm to others.

 

[Deleted member 88]

We went from gay marriage and “only in the bedroom” to bake the cake bigot and being taught in schools, to child drag queens in strip clubs being brought into mainstream national tv, drag queen story times ran by child molesters tax payer funded. The slippery slope is not a fallacy. It happens, one thing can in fact lead to another.

Yeah, its just a thing used to shut down dissent and flaunt intellectual dominance. Especially for third party observers.

Its not really applicable. And if you toss a rock down a hill-it will slide down the slope.

 

[Marduk]

This is going into the land of "pre-crime" - someone who has done nothing wrong being "treated" (ie punished) for what they might do.

No more than doing the same with paranoid schizophrenics is.

I wish there was more psychological research into pedophilia; because I feel like we're basically arguing opinions. I mean, there's no question that a sizable portion of pedophiles are as you describe, but what percentage are they of the total? That's not even getting into how "lolicons" factor into things; most of them seem perfectly content wanking it to underaged anime girls, so do they even count as pedophiles? If so, they'd probably skew the numbers against what you're suggesting.

There is more than you think, though it tends to stick to academic literature, less drama this way.
Here's an example one giving a general brief about current status of medical knowledge (caution, medical images):

The Neurobiology and Psychology of Pedophilia: Recent Advances and Challenges

A pedophilic disorder is recognized for its impairment to the individual and for the harm it may cause to others. Pedophilia is often considered a side issue and research into the nature of pedophilia is delayed in comparison to research into other psychiatric ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

For example, it contains one bit of information you were interested in:

Child pornography use is also strongly related to pedophilia. As a study deriving from the German Dunkelfeld Prevention Project concluded, among 345 pedophiles admitting one or more sexual offenses against children, 37% have solely used child pornography, 21% committed exclusively hands-on sexual contacts with a minor, and 42% have committed both (Neutze et al., 2012).

 

[Terthna]

Why am I detestable? I literally was prepared to help you find work as a complete stranger, spend hours of my own time to try and help you with zero reward. But I agree that they aren’t all child molesters, should be able to seek help without destroying their lives in the process. I would just also add that they should be encouraged to seek help, that help is not found in by pedophile for pedophile advocacy groups, and that if you go around openly touting yourself as a pedophile you deserve all the ire in the world.

Why do I find you detestable? Mostly, I think you're an arrogant, opinionated jerk. Arguing with you is like pulling teeth for me and I, to put it mildly, strongly disagree with you on a number of issues. As for you trying to "help" me, that one time; I'm sure that's what you thought you were doing, but that's not how it was from my perspective. I don't think you're some sort of complete monster, but in the theoretical context of me hiring you for a job, I assume you can understand why I wouldn't want to do that.

My personal feelings about you aside, I'm glad we can come to an agreement on this topic. I don't even disagree with your additions; pedophile advocacy groups are horrible, as is openly touting yourself as a pedophile.

The "slippery slope fallacy" is itself a rhetorical trick.

It implies that B need not follow A. But what if someone wants B to follow A?

It doesn't really apply to politics or human agendas. Its use should be limited to just logic.

Conservatives were accused of the slippery slope fallacy and turned out to be right. Either the slippery slope isn't a fallacy, or it simply doesn't apply here, and its use is designed to shut down suspicion.

That's not what the slippery slope fallacy refers to; those who employ it argue that B must follow A, that there is no other possible outcome. Of course, B could follow A; it's not a fallacy to argue that, nor is it one to point out that there are those who are pushing for B to follow A. What is a fallacy, is arguing that we shouldn't do A because it will lead to B, which is what some in this thread are implying.

Which is ironic, because I'm arguing in favor of A, that pedophiles aren’t all child molesters, and should be able to seek help without destroying their lives in the process, when we already have B, people trying to glorify pedophilia. B did not follow A; it's already here.

There is more than you think, though it tends to stick to academic literature, less drama this way.
Here's an example one giving a general brief about current status of medical knowledge (caution, medical images):

The Neurobiology and Psychology of Pedophilia: Recent Advances and Challenges

A pedophilic disorder is recognized for its impairment to the individual and for the harm it may cause to others. Pedophilia is often considered a side issue and research into the nature of pedophilia is delayed in comparison to research into other psychiatric ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

For example, it contains one bit of information you were interested in:

Thank you; I'll have to read that later.

 

[Battlegrinder]

To shift the topic away from slippery slopes and NOMAPs or whatnot, I think the more effective parallel would be to look at how we treat pyromaniacs, kleptomanics, etc. The kind of people that, through no fault of their own, also have a psychological condition that pushes them toward social destructive and harmful behavior.

As far as I'm aware, we don't help those people by giving them "harmless" outlets for those urges, because feeding those drives at all only strengthens them. You don't hire a kleptomaniac to test your stores anti-shoplifting security systems. You don't have Jim the Pyro go out and light that pile of sticks and debris piled up in a secure burn pit.

You deal with those people with behavior therapy, or tons and tons of drugs. I don't see why that policy shouldn't apply to pedos.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

The "slippery slope fallacy" is itself a rhetorical trick.

It implies that B need not follow A. But what if someone wants B to follow A?

It doesn't really apply to politics or human agendas. Its use should be limited to just logic.

Conservatives were accused of the slippery slope fallacy and turned out to be right. Either the slippery slope isn't a fallacy, or it simply doesn't apply here, and its use is designed to shut down suspicion.

Honestly, I think it's been pointed out before that the problem is a movement stays around too long or acts as if they need far more

If by that logic then this fictional example is accurate

Spoiler: Having Female Characters, even sexy ones->They Turn Into or Eventually Go Butch Lesbian Androgynous-Masculine Feminist

Or simply put inevitable for everything related to females in fiction

Plus as guys like @Cherico and @Abhorsen have said, they know guys who are LGBT and even they are shocked and disgusted by the results of said "slippery slope"

 

[Abhorsen]

Honestly, I think it's been pointed out before that the problem is a movement stays around too long or acts as if they need far more

If by that logic then this fictional example is accurate

Spoiler: Having Female Characters, even sexy ones->They Turn Into or Eventually Go Butch Lesbian Androgynous-Masculine Feminist

Or simply put inevitable for everything related to females in fiction

Plus as guys like @Cherico and @Abhorsen have said, they know guys who are LGBT and even they are shocked and disgusted by the results of said "slippery slope"

So two issues, one minor. First (the minor one), I am LGBT, specifically B, though I also know people who are LGBT (sorta comes with the territory). Second, I don't think that picture is completely relevent here. There is no real movement, anymore than Nick Fuentes leads a movement, but instead a bunch of sad people on the fringes trying to break into the mainstream. They are largely unsuccessful.

 

[Terthna]

To shift the topic away from slippery slopes and NOMAPs or whatnot, I think the more effective parallel would be to look at how we treat pyromaniacs, kleptomanics, etc. The kind of people that, through no fault of their own, also have a psychological condition that pushes them toward social destructive and harmful behavior.

As far as I'm aware, we don't help those people by giving them "harmless" outlets for those urges, because feeding those drives at all only strengthens them. You don't hire a kleptomaniac to test your stores anti-shoplifting security systems. You don't have Jim the Pyro go out and light that pile of sticks and debris piled up in a secure burn pit.

You deal with those people with behavior therapy, or tons and tons of drugs. I don't see why that policy shouldn't apply to pedos.

Actually, as far as I'm aware, our policy in regards to pyromaniacs and kleptomanics is that we just ignore them, unless they choose to act on their desires in a way that negatively impacts other people.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

So two issues, one minor. First (the minor one), I am LGBT, specifically B, though I also know people who are LGBT (sorta comes with the territory). Second, I don't think that picture is completely relevent here. There is no real movement, anymore than Nick Fuentes leads a movement, but instead a bunch of sad people on the fringes trying to break into the mainstream. They are largely unsuccessful.

Okay, though admittedly my reason for the pic as reference to slippery slopes’ how it looks like things are really fucking easy to coopt(female character. Exists. Now a gateway for feminists to take over something.)but I know there are other things in play for how it happens

And yeah, I guess those “sad people” who are trying to break into the “mainstream” are unsuccessful in the end

TBH I tend to think these sorts of people are a minority of a minority who manage to promote themselves as leaders or symbols of a sort. Hell, I think people are even faking being LGBT

Going back to the whole pedophilia thing, I think if anybody becomes proof of a “slippery slope” they may also be a narcissistic psychopath like many other SJW types

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

There is no defending these people, it's not an orientation (Even if it was, it wouldn't matter) it's a choice. I don't really care if you fantasize about it, or act on it. Either way you're a soulless abomination that deserves only abuse, neglect, apathy and anguish.

Simply put, I'm down with executing these people via disembowelment and streaming it to act as a form of deterrence.

Granted I'm in favor of doing the same thing to members of the Mexican Cartels, MS13 and ISIS. For very different, though at times overlapping offenses.

This is not a discussion to be had, if you're attracted to children and minors, you should live your entire life afraid of being slaughtered by society for sport.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

There is no defending these people, it's not an orientation it's a choice. I don't really care if you fantasize about it, or act on it. Either way you're a soulless abomination that deserves only abuse, neglect, apathy and anguish.

Simply put, I'm down with executing these people via disembowelment and streaming it to act as a deterrence.

Granted I'm in favor of doing the same thing to members of the Mexican Cartels, MS13 and ISIS. For very different, though at times overlapping offenses.

What about rehabilitation, medication and brain surgery?

Especially for the ones who feel guilty and disgusted with themselvesv