In defense of pedophiles

[Terthna]

To start out with, it's important that a distinction is made between pedophiles (those who are sexually aroused by prepubescent children), and child molesters (those who sexually abuse children). There's also the distinction between pedophilia, hebephilia, and ephebophilia to consider; but to be honest, it's not really important to the topic at hand. What is important, is that pedophiles are not necessarily child molesters.

Pedophillia is much like any other sexual fetish; with the main thing that separates it being the fact that indulging in it with a consensual partner is impossible in the real world. Children cannot consent, period. It's actually not alone in that regard though; snuff fetishism, for example, would by necessity involve the killing of another human being in the real world. Obviously, not something a sane person would approve of; which is why those who don't happen to be murderous psychopaths indulge in it through fantasy, or roleplay with other consenting adults. I see no reason why anyone should have a problem with pedophiles doing the same to get their fix, anymore than you or I should with any other fetish. No matter how disgusting we might find it personally.

I'm not saying you have you like them, or what goes on in their heads; what I am saying is that pedophiles, as long as they can keep their desires in the realms of fantasy, aren't hurting anyone. It's the monsters who stoop to child molestation whom you should reserve your true ire for, and the distinction between the two should be acknowledged.

So yeah; the leftist is defending pedophiles. I'm sure this is going to go over well here. For what it's worth though, I don't agree with how far the regressive left has taken it (pedophilia is not something to "aspire" to); but that's been the story of my life for years now.

 

[Erwin_Pommel]

as long as they can keep their desires in the realms of fantasy, aren't hurting anyone.

Irrelevant. They're far too much of a potential danger, they must be eliminated on a conceptual level and those who do find themselves with such thoughts must be very aware of the fact that they know it is wrong and be utterly disgusted by such thoughts to the point it makes them shiver when it even comes up for whatever reason it may be.

and the distinction between the two should be acknowledged.

A minuscule difference that means as much as saying that just because someone was bitten by a zombie and hasn't turned therefore they aren't a threat. It doesn't matter if they haven't gone off the hilt, the build-up of the problem is more than enough of a reason to be concerned and filled with ire.

(pedophilia is not something to "aspire" to)

No shit, Sherlock.

 

[Terthna]

Irrelevant. They're far too much of a potential danger, they must be eliminated on a conceptual level and those who do find themselves with such thoughts must be very aware of the fact that they know it is wrong and be utterly disgusted by such thoughts to the point it makes them shiver when it even comes up for whatever reason it may be.

Are you talking about pedophiles, or conservatives? Seriously though; that logic could be applied to many things. I'd rather focus on whether or not someone is harming others with their actions, and pedophiles simply are not.

A minuscule difference that means as much as saying that just because someone was bitten by a zombie and hasn't turned therefore they aren't a threat. It doesn't matter if they haven't gone off the hilt, the build-up of the problem is more than enough of a reason to be concerned and filled with ire.

You're basically arguing that everyone who has sexual desires is inevitably going to rape someone. It's just isn't true.

 

[Abhorsen]

To start out with, it's important that a distinction is made between pedophiles (those who are sexually aroused by prepubescent children), and child molesters (those who sexually abuse children). There's also the distinction between pedophilia, hebephilia, and ephebophilia to consider; but to be honest, it's not really important to the topic at hand. What is important, is that pedophiles are not necessarily child molesters.

Pedophillia is much like any other sexual fetish; with the main thing that separates it being the fact that indulging in it with a consensual partner is impossible in the real world. Children cannot consent, period. It's actually not alone in that regard though; snuff fetishism, for example, would by necessity involve the killing of another human being in the real world. Obviously, not something a sane person would approve of; which is why those who don't happen to be murderous psychopaths indulge in it through fantasy, or roleplay with other consenting adults. I see no reason why anyone should have a problem with pedophiles doing the same to get their fix, anymore than you or I should with any other fetish. No matter how disgusting we might find it personally.

I'm not saying you have you like them, or what goes on in their heads; what I am saying is that pedophiles, as long as they can keep their desires in the realms of fantasy, aren't hurting anyone. It's the monsters who stoop to child molestation whom you should reserve your true ire for, and the distinction between the two should be acknowledged.

So yeah; the leftist is defending pedophiles. I'm sure this is going to go over well here. For what it's worth though, I don't agree with how far the regressive left has taken it (pedophilia is not something to "aspire" to); but that's been the story of my life for years now.

I think it is important to keep a social norm that these actions are evil, and I don't know if that is possible without including the condemnation of people who have these thoughts but don't act on it.

 

[Terthna]

I think it is important to keep a social norm that these actions are evil, and I don't know if that is possible without including the condemnation of people who have these thoughts but don't act on it.

I assume we can agree that thinking about murdering someone, or depicting murder in fiction, is nowhere near as bad as actually murdering someone; so what makes pedophilia so special?

 

[Deleted member 88]

The danger here is, that the more we can give credence to the idea pedophilia is just another fetish, the more people will push that it be accepted.

The movement to legalize pedophilia realizes it must somehow normalize it first. As something people didn't choose. Something to "have a discussion about". And from there they plan on moving to make it seem moral, and then legalize it.

 

[Abhorsen]

I assume we can agree that thinking about murdering someone, or depicting murder in fiction, is nowhere near as bad as actually murdering someone; so what makes pedophilia so special?

Because there seems to be a move to normalize it (see for example Desmond is Amazing). If it was another time period, I would be all for this, but right now seems wrong. Personally, I wouldn't condemn someone for these feelings, but I think the norm is vital right now, so publically, I would be forced to.

I'm not married to this position though, and could be convinced.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

If you don’t kill or arrest all pedophiles who aren’t child molestors or child rapists

I suggest doing brain surgery or giving then drugs to deal with it

There’s a tragedy in having to deal with evil desires that you don’t want to have and actually feel guilty for

 

[Abhorsen]

If you don’t kill or arrest all pedophiles who aren’t child molestors or child rapists

I suggest doing brain surgery or giving then drugs to deal with it

There’s a tragedy in having to deal with evil desires that you don’t want to have and actually feel guilty for

The issue is actually in finding them. Because there is so much shame in being one, they can't take the steps to get help without being put on a watch list. It's one of the few exceptions that psychologists have to report as well (they're forced to violate confidentiality for this), if I remember correctly.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

The issue is actually in finding them. Because there is so much shame in being one, they can't take the steps to get help without being put on a watch list. It's one of the few exceptions that psychologists have to report as well (they're forced to violate confidentiality for this), if I remember correctly.

I know, hell worst part is, I think they know simply even being accused of sexual depravities can destroy a person’s life

Especially if they’re male

 

[Terthna]

Because there seems to be a move to normalize it (see for example Desmond is Amazing). If it was another time period, I would be all for this, but right now seems wrong. Personally, I wouldn't condemn someone for these feelings, but I think the norm is vital right now, so publically, I would be forced to.

I'm not married to this position though, and could be convinced.

You're not wrong, and I can understand the feeling; the regressive left has gone way too far. Personally though, I don't think taking the extreme opposite position from theirs is a sound tactic; remember, it's the same one they use whenever Trump voices an opinion on something, and it makes them incredibly easy to manipulate into doing something that is, supposedly, against their principles.

The issue is actually in finding them. Because there is so much shame in being one, they can't take the steps to get help without being put on a watch list. It's one of the few exceptions that psychologists have to report as well (they're forced to violate confidentiality for this), if I remember correctly.

Pretty much. Some don't see it as a big deal, as to them, it's just a fantasy they indulge in on occasion; others though? They're desperate for help to deal with urges they can barely control, and they cannot stop thinking about their obsession. It's one of the reasons why what the regressive left is doing is so insidious; because they're selling pedophiles on the idea that their problem isn't a problem at all. What we should be doing is giving them an alternative; helping them to deal with their issues, rather than condemning them for having them. We don't though; we never have, in fact, and that has left the door open for the regressive left to entice them into embracing their demons, rather than fighting them.

 

[ShieldWife]

snip

I agree. We can’t judge people for things that they desire, only for what actions they actually engage in. The idea of punishing thought crimes is repugnant to me. So I don’t think that we should condemn or persecute pedophiles that never act on their urges. A pedophile isn’t a child molester any more than an angry person is a murderer.

Honestly though, as a parent, if someone confided to me that they had sexual desires for pre-pubescent children, I might not judge them, but they wouldn’t be spending much time with my children after that.

Hopefully, such people could see psychologists without fear of negative repercussions and maybe the psychologists could do something for them. Chemical castration has been tried in the cases of actual sex offenders and dramatically lowers recidivism rates. I’m not necessarily advocating that for people who have committed no crime, but it might be something that we should keep in mind with regard to treating pedophilia.

Above all, we have to remain calm and rational about this topic. So many people seem to lose their minds over the topic of pedophilia, or even much more benign ephebophilia or hebephilia, which are erroneously conflated with pedophilia.

 

[LifeisTiresome]

@Terthna

You do know that this is just fulfilling the idea that left leaning people love pedos and want child rape to happen yes?

Yes, I know that is not your intention. All we have seen from leftists nowadays started at first with "lets have a discussion" or "they can't help it that they are this way. Pity them"

You do realize this no?

 

[Deleted member 88]

@Terthna

You do know that this is just fulfilling the idea that left leaning people love pedos and want child rape to happen yes?

Yes, I know that is not your intention. All we have seen from leftists nowadays started at first with "lets have a discussion" or "they can't help it that they are this way. Pity them"

You do realize this no?

I think it’s important to remember the left uses these opening lines to get the ball moving.

And to fool people into thinking they are discussing the matter in good faith.

It’s rhetorical trickery. What they mean when they say “let’s have a conversation” is, “let’s start moving towards normalization and legalization”.

They can’t say that openly, because then the game would be up.

 

[FriedCFour]

This is why the MAP community is a thing now. This is a bad thing

 

[Scottty]

It’s rhetorical trickery. What they mean when they say “let’s have a conversation” is, “let’s start moving towards normalization and legalization”.
They can’t say that openly, because then the game would be up.

Sometimes they do say things like that openly, generally by accident.

 

[FriedCFour]

I'm not saying you have you like them, or what goes on in their heads; what I am saying is that pedophiles, as long as they can keep their desires in the realms of fantasy, aren't hurting anyone. It's the monsters who stoop to child molestation whom you should reserve your true ire for, and the distinction between the two should be acknowledged.

You let them indulge in fantasy, and then they form communities, and then they form advocacy groups, and that’s where we are now. Fuck MAPs. Publically labeling yourself that should see you ostracized and fired.

 

[Deleted member]

Classify paedophilia (without a crime having been committed yet) as a medical condition for which the treatment is chemical castration and intensive psychological therapy. The government actually has broad rights to force medical treatment on people through quarantine and civil commitment proceedings and both could be used to make that treatment mandatory. Paedophilia is a medical condition, sure, and there's our treatment. To some extent, it's what we already do. There are intensive treatment programmes for paedophiles, even if it's normally the criminal ones coming out of prison who get mandated to them.

 

[Terthna]

Above all, we have to remain calm and rational about this topic. So many people seem to lose their minds over the topic of pedophilia, or even much more benign ephebophilia or hebephilia, which are erroneously conflated with pedophilia.

Unfortunately, in my experience, remaining calm while discussing pedophilia is completely impossible for most people. It's one of the reasons why cracking down on pedos is the go-to excuse for taking away your rights; because it's rare to see any push-back when it's used.

@Terthna

You do know that this is just fulfilling the idea that left leaning people love pedos and want child rape to happen yes?

Yes, I know that is not your intention. All we have seen from leftists nowadays started at first with "lets have a discussion" or "they can't help it that they are this way. Pity them"

You do realize this no?

The slippery slope fallacy is just that, a fallacy, and it's not a valid reason to take the opposite extreme position. Just because something can be taken too far, does not mean it has to; because honestly? Anything can be taken too far. We don't have to pick one side or the other, we can choose a happy medium between two extremes.

You let them indulge in fantasy, and then they form communities, and then they form advocacy groups, and that’s where we are now. Fuck MAPs. Publically labeling yourself that should see you ostracized and fired.

I'm sure the regressive left would agree with you, with the small caveat of what label they think should see you "ostracized and fired". In any event though, what you're arguing is moot in my opinion; the public does not want to know about your sexual fetishes, whatever they might be. That sort of thing should be kept on the down-low regardless; but unfortunately, the regressive left and its obsession with identitarianism encourages the opposite, which in my opinion is at the root of what you're complaining about. They should let go of this idea that every part of them needs to be accepted by everyone else; it's never going to happen, and trying to force it will just make things worse.

That aside; what makes pedophilia so special? Snuff, guro, vore, cannibalism, mind control; these and many more are all monstrous fetishes, from an objective point of view, and yet nobody seems to care about them nearly as much as they do pedophilia. They all have their own communities, and yet I haven't seen hide nor hair of an advocacy group pushing the idea that you need to accept them as "normal".

Classify paedophilia (without a crime having been committed yet) as a medical condition for which the treatment is chemical castration and intensive psychological therapy. The government actually has broad rights to force medical treatment on people through quarantine and civil commitment proceedings and both could be used to make that treatment mandatory. Paedophilia is a medical condition, sure, and there's our treatment. To some extent, it's what we already do. There are intensive treatment programmes for paedophiles, even if it's normally the criminal ones coming out of prison who get mandated to them.

What you're suggesting is nothing short of a witch hunt. We shouldn't be punishing people for having thoughts we don't like, because we don't want to be punished for having thoughts someone else doesn't like.

 

[Marduk]

That aside; what makes pedophilia so special? Snuff, guro, vore, cannibalism, mind control; these and many more are all monstrous fetishes, from an objective point of view, and yet nobody seems to care about them nearly as much as they do pedophilia. They all have their own communities, and yet I haven't seen hide nor hair of an advocacy group pushing the idea that you need to accept them as "normal".

The problem is that as with many controversial mental illnesses, pedophilia tends to come in a package of minor mental disorders that make the case worse than in theory you would imagine "pedophile = attracted to children, just like the average heterosexual is attracted to attractive adult members of opposite sex, yet most aren't raping them".
In case of pedophiles, that's quite different, most of them struggle to control themselves around children. Some successfully, a lot of them not so much.
That's how you get pedophiles who get downright ridiculous and rationally indefensible ideas like this, as they try to bend their view of reality to justify their urges:

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Nelson said on the program that he is attracted to boys from 4 to 14 years old. He said that toddlers are able to decide whether they want sex or not. "A child of 2 or 3 years old is developed enough to decide whether he wants an ice cream or wants to go to the playground," he said. "I think those things are very easy to compare."