Imperium of Man vs Yuuzhan Vong

[Crom's Black Blade]

If firepower is equalized "per ton" than The Vong likely do quite well for themselves for pretty much the same reasons the GE would dominate the IoM. The Vong are a hyperspace capable race, or at least employ an analogue, meaning they can cross the galaxy in days or at most weeks while the same can't be said for the IoM. Even factoring the limitations of "Hyperspace lanes", Hyperspace is a more reliable, superior alternative to the chaotic Warp.

The Vong, IIRC, like most races in Star Wars have access to real time communication over interstellar distances. Something the Imperium doesn't have.

Those two advantages means the Vong can rapidly concentrate and deploy their forces where ever and when ever they wish while the Imperium will be in essence frozen in amber in comparison forever belated reacting while the Vong dictate and control the flow of battle.

The sheer scale of the IoM may prevent the Vong from taking it in its entirety but they can carve themselves one hell of an empire. If the other races are involved in this things become a little more difficult, Tyranids especially are going to drawn to the Vong, but even then they likely can survive just fine and join the array of powerful alien empires gnawing on the Empire.

 

[Aldarion]

Sorry for being unclear.Vong keep captured worlds producing stuff for them,when Tyranids eat all and go for next.
That is why Vongs are stronger then Tyranids,becouse all captured worlds keep producing for them,when tyranids must found another victim to survive.

Vongs are like people who sell wool of their sheeps,when tyranids just eat them.Better in short term,but worst in long.

In the long term maybe, but considering the amount of biomass on Earth-like planet, that long term may well be centuries.

 

[Bacle]

Something to consider with the Vong and Imperium; the Imperium hates AI too, and instead do some shit that would make the Vong's butcher gods blush in envy, and do it to their own people.

Would Vong approve, or disapprove, of sevitors?

 

[The Whispering Monk]

If firepower is equalized "per ton" than The Vong likely do quite well for themselves for pretty much the same reasons the GE would dominate the IoM. The Vong are a hyperspace capable race, or at least employ an analogue, meaning they can cross the galaxy in days or at most weeks while the same can't be said for the IoM. Even factoring the limitations of "Hyperspace lanes", Hyperspace is a more reliable, superior alternative to the chaotic Warp.

Totally disagree. They MIGHT be more mobile, but they are going to get hosed by the firepower brought to bear by the IoM. Especially, if it means that the IoM doesn't have to worry about ANY other threats but the Vong. Nothing to distract almost an entire galaxy that is already build for war on a scale not even the Vong truly understand.

As for the power of a planet once conquered...congrats. The Vong have now chained themselves to a fixed location. Every asset used to defend it will be destroyed when the IoM comes calling.

Also, the Warp/Psykers, the Vong have no defense against it.

Would Vong approve, or disapprove, of sevitors?

Oh yeah, it'd drive them frothing mad!

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

Totally disagree. They MIGHT be more mobile, but they are going to get hosed by the firepower brought to bear by the IoM. Especially, if it means that the IoM doesn't have to worry about ANY other threats but the Vong. Nothing to distract almost an entire galaxy that is already build for war on a scale not even the Vong truly understand.

As for the power of a planet once conquered...congrats. The Vong have now chained themselves to a fixed location. Every asset used to defend it will be destroyed when the IoM comes calling.

Also, the Warp/Psykers, the Vong have no defense against it.

Oh yeah, it'd drive them frothing mad!

Well in Star Wars the Millennium Falcon can travel from Tatooine to Alderaan in what seems like a day while in contrast in the IoM it's SOP to raise regiments within a short distance radius of whatever battle or crisis in question is with the example given in the Imperial Guard codex being a ten light-year sphere around the system of Ryza with it further clarifying how freshly raised regiments created under this process will receive additional training during the "long voyage" to their destination. Suggesting days if not weeks to travel even that small a distance.

Further it's not simply a matter of being more mobile but being able to process data magnitudes more swiftly. It would be like an army equipped with radios fighting one who relies on foot messengers to rely written instructions. The Vong could drop into a system, burn it to the ground and bug out before the wider Imperium has even realized their under attack.

Against such a blitzkrieg having more powerful individual ships isn't going to matter anymore than the Soviets having heavier tanks like the T-34 mattered during Operation Barbarossa. If anything it will likely matter even less since the Vong almost certainly enjoy a greater freedom of movement compared to the IoM than the Germans did against the Red Army.

If anything its the Vong who practice war on a scale the Imperium can't comprehend. The Vong can bring war to that "almost an entire galaxy" whereas that galaxy can neither effectively coordinate between themselves or launch retaliatory strikes with anything like the speed or range of their adversary.

About the only advantage the IoM may have is that it's so big the Vong may exhaust themselves since they can be anywhere but not everywhere.

As for the Warp/Psykers, the Tau also seemingly have little to no defense against it yet are still able to win against the Imperium so it doesn't seem to give the IoM a crucial advantage.

 

[Scottty]

I think a lot depends on what the Vong are actually trying to do. Just build an empire? Grab stuff and run?
Or defeat the Imperium and dictate terms.

 

[ATP]

In the long term maybe, but considering the amount of biomass on Earth-like planet, that long term may well be centuries.

Tyranids FTL travel take years to come to next planet.By the time they reach it,Vong would arleady convert 100 planets which would produce their ships and soldiers.
Sure,Tyranids could eat one such planet - but,by that time.Vongs would have 199 planets.And could bring their soldiers in weeks to fight.

Time is everything here - Vongs would travel at least 100 times faster,and convert planets,not eat it.
They would have numerical advantage,too.

Fighting IoM - let say,that IoM fight them and win on 10 planets.In the same time,Vong take 100 planets and start mass producing stuff there.And bring them in weeks to any corner of Galaxy.

Result? all planets which are not heavily defended fall.Then,those of them who could not produce food for themselves fall,too.
All we would have would be fortified systems which could feed itself.
Terra,few other systems...certainly not Mechanicus,they could not feed their worlds.

 

[Scottty]

Tyranids FTL travel take years to come to next planet.By the time they reach it,Vong would arleady convert 100 planets which would produce their ships and soldiers.
Sure,Tyranids could eat one such planet - but,by that time.Vongs would have 199 planets.And could bring their soldiers in weeks to fight.

Time is everything here - Vongs would travel at least 100 times faster,and convert planets,not eat it.
They would have numerical advantage,too.

Fighting IoM - let say,that IoM fight them and win on 10 planets.In the same time,Vong take 100 planets and start mass producing stuff there.And bring them in weeks to any corner of Galaxy.

Result? all planets which are not heavily defended fall.Then,those of them who could not produce food for themselves fall,too.
All we would have would be fortified systems which could feed itself.
Terra,few other systems...certainly not Mechanicus,they could not feed their worlds.

If this involved a Star Trek faction I'd suggest luring the IoM into sending a huge fleet to one star system and then killboxing it there - say with a trilithium torpedo to the star. But I've no idea if the Vong can do anything equivalent.

One of the IoM's weak points vs StarWars would be warship production rate.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

The Vong could drop into a system, burn it to the ground and bug out before the wider Imperium has even realized their under attack.

If the Vong are the only enemy the IoM is contending with per the OP...then the prescience of their psykers is NOT being frazzled by Warp entities. So knowing the targeted systems ahead of time is NOT an uncommon occurrence.

If anything its the Vong who practice war on a scale the Imperium can't comprehend. The Vong can bring war to that "almost an entire galaxy" whereas that galaxy can neither effectively coordinate between themselves or launch retaliatory strikes with anything like the speed or range of their adversary.

I think you've completely missed the part where the IoM has been at war for MILLENIA on a galaxy wide scale. The IoM has a complete monopoly on the experience front here. Leaders with thousands of years of warfighting experience, and entire units with operational experience in warfare on this scale...and the logistical experience to back up those operations. How long has it been since the Vong have had to operate on this scale?

As for the Warp/Psykers, the Tau also seemingly have little to no defense against it yet are still able to win against the Imperium so it doesn't seem to give the IoM a crucial advantage.

The T'au are blessed by being in the 'outback', and they aren't an existential threat to the IoM. The Vong won't have that advantage. They will be the sole focus of the IoM's vast military. The Vong have no where near the same level of militarized might as the IoM. In SW, the Vong had to deal with vastly smaller planetary militaries. SW is not mobilized to even a sizeable fraction of the IoM when it comes to ground forces.

Time is everything here - Vongs would travel at least 100 times faster,and convert planets,not eat it.
They would have numerical advantage,too.

Vong will not have a numerical advantage.

One of the IoM's weak points vs StarWars would be warship production rate.

This is false. I've seen nothing that shows SW being superior to the IoM in rate of production. Especially when you factor in the size/power difference of the ships.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

If the Vong are the only enemy the IoM is contending with per the OP...then the prescience of their psykers is NOT being frazzled by Warp entities. So knowing the targeted systems ahead of time is NOT an uncommon occurrence.

I'm not exactly sure I'd agree with that particular interpretation. Generally I work from the assumption that a faction's tech/abilities will work "as is". So it seems counter-intuitive that IoM should get a massive boost in abilities simply for participating in a VS matchup.

As well there's the practical matter of how are we supposed to evaluate and ascertain limits on these abilities since we never, to my knowledge, seen a time in the IoM where the Warp didn't want to devour your soul.

I think you've completely missed the part where the IoM has been at war for MILLENIA on a galaxy wide scale. The IoM has a complete monopoly on the experience front here. Leaders with thousands of years of warfighting experience, and entire units with operational experience in warfare on this scale...and the logistical experience to back up those operations. How long has it been since the Vong have had to operate on this scale?

Except the Imperium doesn't fight on a Galaxy wide scale. They are embroiled in an endless series of local conflicts across the breadth of their territory but its rare for the different Segmentums to all coordinate their efforts towards a solitary target. And even if they attempted it the inherent flaws of their organization, with its crushing bureaucracy among other issues, and their FTL means they'd be slow and inept compared to the Vong.

The Guard codex even mentions how "due to unpredictable nature of the warp and the inherent dangers of interstellar travel" the Departmento Munitorum can only ensure sufficient troops and equipment reach their intended destination via throwing such a sheer mass of soldiers and weapons that *something* will reach the other end. So logistically speaking the IoM is about as far away from a well-run, efficient organization as it possibly can be.

The T'au are blessed by being in the 'outback', and they aren't an existential threat to the IoM.

Well being in the "outback" would have little impact on the effectiveness of Psykers in combat and this is against a race the Imperium has almost every advantage against.

This is false. I've seen nothing that shows SW being superior to the IoM in rate of production. Especially when you factor in the size/power difference of the ships.

Well there's the Ship's of the Imperium quote

SPACESHIPS OF THE IMPERIUM

Most spaceships are old - open space, the most hostile environment to man, preserves the plastics and metals that spacecraft are made from. Space gives them with the power to endure through generations of men. The Imperial fleets number many thousands of ships, the majority of which are at least a thousand years old. Some are as old as the Imperium itself, a full ten thousand years. A very few claim a pre-Imperial origin. It is difficult for those born under the claustrophobic sky of a planet to appreciate the great dignity which is inherent in all old spacecraft.

The spaceships of the Imperium are vast constructions that take many decades to build. Each craft represents a huge investment of time and resources. But once completed, fitted out' armed and commissioned, a spaceship continues in service for centuries, even millennia. After that, it may be refilled. modernised, reconstructed and live on practically indefinitely. Barring a major accident or destruction in battle, a ship is immortal like a great city, its population and fabric existing in a constant state of decay and renewal.

Its doubtful it takes decades to produce Venators or ISD's.

Further its rare that we see anything that's truly new in the IoM. Even something as relatively simple as a plasma gun can be " hundreds if not thousands of years old" suggesting they aren't cranking these out in massive lots. Further reinforced by the aforementioned weapon not being common despite being both built and capable of surviving for thousands of years.

Plasma gun - Warhammer 40k - Lexicanum

wh40k.lexicanum.com

 

[ATP]

If this involved a Star Trek faction I'd suggest luring the IoM into sending a huge fleet to one star system and then killboxing it there - say with a trilithium torpedo to the star. But I've no idea if the Vong can do anything equivalent.

One of the IoM's weak points vs StarWars would be warship production rate.

Indeed.Vongs had organic ships,right? they probably could grow them in months.Even if they lost 10 their destroyers for 1 IoM,it would still be worth it.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Indeed.Vongs had organic ships,right? they probably could grow them in months.Even if they lost 10 their destroyers for 1 IoM,it would still be worth it.

Their fighters MAY have been able to be grown that quickly...but they weren't grown from a single organism.

The hull was grown, the 'thrusters', weapons, and other stuff were all separate organisms that were incorporated into a single vessel.

It was the same with the ships. So it's not as simple as just growing one thing, and POOF!, you've got a ship.

Of course, they often had to Vong'form the planets first in order to be able to even grow the necessary organisms.

 

[Aldarion]

Its doubtful it takes decades to produce Venators or ISD's.

To be fair, ISD is like 1% of volume of Imperial battleship.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

To be fair, ISD is like 1% of volume of Imperial battleship.

A Lunar class cruiser on its own is about three times the size of an ISD and possesses ridiculously more firepower.

The Vong have never faced an enemy like the Imperium before, especially not one that can concentrate its full might.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

To be fair, ISD is like 1% of volume of Imperial battleship.

True but an ISD should be more comparable to a Cobra escort which the above suggest would also take decades to build.

 

[Scottty]

This is false. I've seen nothing that shows SW being superior to the IoM in rate of production. Especially when you factor in the size/power difference of the ships.

Well admittedly the example I have in mind is from DisneyWars, rather than from the book SW universe the Vong come from, but the example is the Final Order.
The Sith cultists of the planet Exagol put quite an impressive fleet together, with only the resources of that one world.
Palpatine seems to have been doing something equivalent to the RISK player who turtles in Australia, then suddenly trades in a bunch of cards for a huge pile of armies.

Indeed.Vongs had organic ships,right? they probably could grow them in months.Even if they lost 10 their destroyers for 1 IoM,it would still be worth it.

I think you are getting it. If the Vong can make new ships faster than they are losing them, but the Imperium can't, then the Vong are winning.

Most spaceships are old - open space, the most hostile environment to man, preserves the plastics and metals that spacecraft are made from. Space gives them with the power to endure through generations of men. The Imperial fleets number many thousands of ships, the majority of which are at least a thousand years old. Some are as old as the Imperium itself, a full ten thousand years. A very few claim a pre-Imperial origin. It is difficult for those born under the claustrophobic sky of a planet to appreciate the great dignity which is inherent in all old spacecraft.

In real-physics terms, that is twaddle. In hard vacuum, exposed to cycles of extreme heat and cold, not to mention ultraviolet light and worse, plastics will break down and sublime over time. So will metal, for that matter.
If you want a spaceship to remain functional for centuries, it will need continual maintenance.

True but an ISD should be more comparable to a Cobra escort which the above suggest would also take decades to build.

StarWars has quite a few types of ship that are rather bigger than ISD. Just saying.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Vongs are stronger then Tyranids,becouse all captured worlds keep producing for them,when tyranids must found another victim to survive.

Nids can eat a planet so fast that it physically shrinks in about 3 months, that doesn't sound too impressive but that's a stupid amount of mass transfer really really fast. They don't need to use captured planets because they basically drain the industrial output of a planet straight out of it within a quarter of a year.

Before the Eye of Terror nuking half the galaxy, nids were shaping up to be the 'big bad' of the franchise (They kinda still are), where upon they have multiple galaxies-worth of biomass sitting out there, all converging towards Emprah.

 

[ATP]

Nids can eat a planet so fast that it physically shrinks in about 3 months, that doesn't sound too impressive but that's a stupid amount of mass transfer really really fast. They don't need to use captured planets because they basically drain the industrial output of a planet straight out of it within a quarter of a year.

Before the Eye of Terror nuking half the galaxy, nids were shaping up to be the 'big bad' of the franchise (They kinda still are), where upon they have multiple galaxies-worth of biomass sitting out there, all converging towards Emprah.

Vong still could use their worlds,when nids leave rocks behind them.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Vong still could use their worlds,when nids leave rocks behind them.

They leave rocks behind because there's nothing left to use. Nids gain entire decades of production in three months. However much of it is lost as they travel.

 

[ATP]

They leave rocks behind because there's nothing left to use. Nids gain entire decades of production in three months. However much of it is lost as they travel.

And Vong had worlds still producing ships,and sending them faster then Nids ever could.