United States Helene News

[Bacle]

Are you basing the Armed Militias threatening FEMA due to the Forest Service wanting to "close the local forests" and arresting people on something beyond the fact it's allegedly happening or is this just theory crafting motivations?

I'm not convinced that armed Militias genuinely "hunting" or threatening FEMA exists, much less ascribing specific actions to the motivation of their creation beyond broad negative perceptions of the federal government and it's response.

While the federal response has been poor, like in most disaster areas the state is in charge, local authorities are the ones who effect government action the most and federals are only there to advise and support.

I think cultural differences in open carry seem far more likely for the initial cause of tension and the general antipathy and hate directed towards FEMA and the federal government as well documented on social media and local communixations as being a better explanation of this "armed Militias" allegation then one specific thing reportedly enacted by a wholly different agency (the Forest Service).

More connecting dots in previously seen info, and putting forth a possible reason why armed militias may have been 'hunting FEMA'. FEMA and the Forest Service are both Feds to the locals, so it may be painting both with the same brush.

It can also be someone just coming up with an excuse to pull back personnel/resource for another reason, if the militias are entirely fake.

 

[Zachowon]

Are you basing the Armed Militias threatening FEMA due to the Forest Service wanting to "close the local forests" and arresting people on something beyond the fact it's allegedly happening or is this just theory crafting motivations?

I'm not convinced that armed Militias genuinely "hunting" or threatening FEMA exists, much less ascribing specific actions to the motivation of their creation beyond broad negative perceptions of the federal government and it's response.

While the federal response has been poor, like in most disaster areas the state is in charge, local authorities are the ones who effect government action the most and federals are only there to advise and support.

I think cultural differences in open carry seem far more likely for the initial cause of tension and the general antipathy and hate directed towards FEMA and the federal government as well documented on social media and local communixations as being a better explanation of this "armed Militias" allegation then one specific thing reportedly enacted by a wholly different agency (the Forest Service).

Ryan Mcbeth covers this actually.
With the fact that the culture of the gun toting mounting living people, vs that of city urbanites who are likely to be in FEMA.

 

[Sailor.X]

<National Guard’s report of ‘armed militia,’ prompts the relocation of North Carolina hurricane recovery officials> <FEMA contractors ordered to “stand down” after security threats, messages show>
>>> Federal emergency response personnel on Saturday had employees operating in hard-hit Rutherford County, N.C., stop working and move to a different area because of concerns over "armed militia" threatening government workers in the region.

Around 1 p.m. Saturday, an official with the U.S. Forest Service, which is supporting recovery efforts after Hurricane Helene along with the Federal Emergency Management Agency, sent an urgent message to numerous federal agencies warning that "FEMA has advised all federal responders Rutherford County, NC, to stand down and evacuate the county immediately. The message stated that National Guard troops 'had come across x2 trucks of armed militia saying there were out hunting FEMA.'"

"The IMTs [incident management teams] have been notified and are coordinating the evacuation of all assigned personnel in that county," the email added.

By Sunday afternoon, personnel were back in place, said the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

An inspection agency that works as a contractor for the Federal Emergency Management Agency has ordered its employees in western North Carolina to cease inspections over the weekend and return to hotels, WBTV has confirmed.

Sunday evening, the Washington Post first reported messages about reports of threats to FEMA-affiliated workers in Rutherford County. WBTV has independently confirmed that reporting with sources with direct knowledge of the threats.

"Effective immediately, disaster wide -- cease inspections today and return to your hotels," an alert from Vanguard Inspection Services read on Saturday. "FEMA received news that the Title 10 (active military unit deployed to NC) came across some trucks of militia units who said they were out hunting FEMA personnel."

Looks like the idiots playing Militia want the full force of the US Military to come down on their asses in a marshal law situation.

 

[Zachowon]

Looks like the idiots playing Militia want the full force of the US Military to come down on their asses in a marshal law situation.

The military guys are the ones they ignored

 

[Sailor.X]

The military guys are the ones they ignored

Still threatening federal officials is a fast way to get Marshal Law declared. It would not be the first time.

 

[Zachowon]

Still threatening federal officials is a fast way to get Marshal Law declared. It would not be the first time.

It would not but I doubt the current admin will

 

[S'task]

Something to note: if these people were working in relief efforts where they had to hike to places while escorting pack animals or other people, at least ONE person in the convoy should be armed just as a precaution. The Smokey Mountains have plenty of animals that are dangerous, from poisonous snakes to bears (and potentially mountain lions) to say nothing of the fact there HAVE been some malicious actors looting. Add in the gun culture of the region and it's more than likely these FEMA types encountered a local group helping the relief efforts had a disagreement with them (as has been happening) and then decided because they were armed that they were a "dangerous militia".

 

[Sailor.X]

Something to note: if these people were working in relief efforts where they had to hike to places while escorting pack animals or other people, at least ONE person in the convoy should be armed just as a precaution. The Smokey Mountains have plenty of animals that are dangerous, from poisonous snakes to bears (and potentially mountain lions) to say nothing of the fact there HAVE been some malicious actors looting. Add in the gun culture of the region and it's more than likely these FEMA types encountered a local group helping the relief efforts had a disagreement with them (as has been happening) and then decided because they were armed that they were a "dangerous militia".

I would believe that if it was not for a whole bunch of Conspiracy theorists on Youtube and other media saying the Goverment is there to take your land.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Only took like two weeks of responsible citizen journalism to go from FEMA ordering National Guard helicopters to destroy civilian supply dumps that refuse to be confiscated to... *checks*

...Crew Chief neglected to confirm landing zone (set up by some of the same responsible citizens crying treason in response to this) wasn't clear like it was before.

Basically the same thing.

 

[Typhonis]

Given what happened in Hawaii? Can you blame them? Look at the US West of the Mississippi. How much of it is government land compared to civil land? Heck Nevada is like 90% government land.

 

[Zachowon]

Given what happened in Hawaii?

A island nation where you can only do so much.
do you remember when Puerto Rico got hit badly and people were saying Trump wasnt doing anything? Only to realize he can only do so much to an Island...hawaii is worse.

Can you blame them?

No not really.

Look at the US West of the Mississippi. How much of it is government land compared to civil land? Heck Nevada is like 90% government land.

Do you know why?
How else are we supposed to remain super powrr?

 

[Husky_Khan]

Given what happened in Hawaii? Can you blame them? Look at the US West of the Mississippi. How much of it is government land compared to civil land? Heck Nevada is like 90% government land.

I'll happily blame people for knowingly fomenting and spreading misinformation that might lead to unnecessary death and suffering.

I don't know who started the reports that the National Guard helicopters were targeting civilian supply dumps to destroy with rotor wash because they refused to have their supplies confiscated by FEMA, but it seems almost certainly demonstrably wrong at this juncture and it would be hard to be "mistaken" about it if you were a witness to it.

We never got evidence of attempted confiscations, or FEMA control of the NG assets, and so forth but it was being presented as almost fact for days to demonize FEMA, the National Guard and more.

When at worst it seems... One NG crew member on the helicopter and many civilian responders and volunteers on the ground were apparently more at fault.

Just saying "pattern recognition of government incompetence/malfeasance" implies treason until proven otherwise isn't a good default for analysis during a disaster response.

 

[Zachowon]

I'll happily blame people for knowingly fomenting and spreading misinformation that might lead to unnecessary death and suffering.

I don't know who started the reports that the National Guard helicopters were targeting civilian supply dumps to destroy with rotor wash because they refused to have their supplies confiscated by FEMA, but it seems almost certainly demonstrably wrong at this juncture and it would be hard to be "mistaken" about it if you were a witness to it.

We never got evidence of attempted confiscations, or FEMA control of the NG assets, and so forth but it was being presented as almost fact for days to demonize FEMA, the National Guard and more.

When at worst it seems... One NG crew member on the helicopter and many civilian responders and volunteers on the ground were apparently more at fault.

Just saying "pattern recognition of government incompetence/malfeasance" implies treason until proven otherwise isn't a good default for analysis during a disaster response.

It's because of rumors and a few areas where FEMA and local leos were telling people away that didn't go through the proper channels or the like, and were trying to bum rush into the area as things were still not the best and could have made it worse.
Things had been stolen so FEMA and local groups started to lock things up, where confiscation came from.
The helicopter thing comes from people hearing of the FAA telling people to stop flying into the areas.
And people not knowing guard doesn't fall under FEMA, and that the guard in every state and from others have been taking and sending donations for weeks now.

 

[Zachowon]

<Arrest made after FEMA crews forced to relocate amid reported threats over hurricane relief efforts>
>>> One person was arrested in connection to the threat, CBS News confirmed on Monday.

The North Carolina National Guard told CBS News in a statement on Monday that it had "no reports of our soldiers or airmen encountering any armed militia, any threats and any type of combatants. We are continuing to serve all those counties in need of our assistance."

In a statement to CBS News, the Rutherford County Sheriff's Office said they received a call Saturday afternoon that said a man with an assault rifle had made a comment about possibly harming FEMA employees working on recovery efforts in the Lake Lure and Chimney Rock area. Deputies alerted the Lake Lure Police Department and other agencies of the threat.

The man suspected of making the threat was identified as William Parsons, 44, of Bostic, North Carolina. He was arrested and charged with going armed to the terror of the public.

The sheriff's office said Parsons was armed with a handgun and a rifle when he was arrested. He was released on a $10,000 bond.

"The initial report stated there was a truck load of militia that was involved," the sheriff's office said. "However, after further investigation, it was determined Parsons acted alone and there were no truck loads of militia going to Lake Lure."

 

[Captain X]

I'm still wondering that if it was the case that there was supposed to be a clear landing zone in that location, why it wasn't kept clear. Or did all that stuff and tents just magically appear right before the helicopter came that time? I'm also wondering what was so difficult for the pilot to see that the area wasn't clear and in fact was full of stuff.

As for the "militia" stuff, I wouldn't be surprised if that one guy they arrested didn't even make any kind of threats, but some Karen took some negative comments about FEMA that way.

 

[Zachowon]

I'm still wondering that if it was the case that there was supposed to be a clear landing zone in that location, why it wasn't kept clear. Or did all that stuff and tents just magically appear right before the helicopter came that time? I'm also wondering what was so difficult for the pilot to see that the area wasn't clear and in fact was full of stuff.

Because they were told a clear landing area, and with how large a group is going on, not everyone knew a bird was arriving so people set up where the bird would land.
It happens a lot in things like this.
And...have you seen the view the pilots have? It isn't perfect of the ground.

As for the "militia" stuff, I wouldn't be surprised if that one guy they arrested didn't even make any kind of threats, but some Karen took some negative comments about FEMA that way.

Possible

 

[Bacle]

I'm still wondering that if it was the case that there was supposed to be a clear landing zone in that location, why it wasn't kept clear. Or did all that stuff and tents just magically appear right before the helicopter came that time? I'm also wondering what was so difficult for the pilot to see that the area wasn't clear and in fact was full of stuff.

As for the "militia" stuff, I wouldn't be surprised if that one guy they arrested didn't even make any kind of threats, but some Karen took some negative comments about FEMA that way.

Yeah, the ground side failure to properly demarcate and secure the landing zone began the chain of events.

Because they were told a clear landing area, and with how large a group is going on, not everyone knew a bird was arriving so people set up where the bird would land.
It happens a lot in things like this.
And...have you seen the view the pilots have? It isn't perfect of the ground.

Possible

There are at least comms and rotor-wash clearance understanding failures involved.

 

[Zachowon]

Yeah, the ground side failure to properly demarcate and secure the landing zone began the chain of events.

There are at least comms and rotor-wash clearance understanding failures involved.

They MAY have comms with the aircrew

 

[ShadowArxxy]

I should note that the fact @ShadowArxxy is the one defending the Bush administration and FEMA's response, when she's much more on the progressive left than almost anyone here on every issue except gun control and free speech should tell you a LOT about how badly Louisiana and New Orleans fucked up their response.

While I certainly don't have any degree of "high up insider knowledge", I do have actual training in the ICS incident command structure and thus am in a position to understand the context of post-incident reports detailing just how and why things fell apart in the Katrina response.


For those who want more details:

The National Incident Management System (NIMS) is an organizational structure that the federal government developed in response to after-the-fact evaluation showing how emergency responder coordination had broken down during 9/11 and other large-scale emergencies involving a large number of emergency agencies operating across multiple jurisdictions. Officially, NIMS (also known as ICS, the Incident Command System -- technically ICS is a component of NIMS, but it's the main thing) compiles "best practices" from emergency responders nationwide; unofficially, it's mostly based on the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection's command and control structure for large wildfires. The importance of NIMS/ICS is that it's *not* a "feds in charge" system, it's that everyone has the same ICS training in addition to their firefighter/ambulance/police training so that we have an established structure for plugging supporting agencies and non-local personnell in to assist the locals.

Ad hoc coordination and individual inter-agency aid agreements work fine for small-scale, everyday emergencies. When the disasters get big, you actually need coordinating structure or you end up with problems like, "These guys use different radio systems and frequencies and can't talk directly to each other, so vital information like the building is about to collapse didn't get passed." That's what NIMS/ICS is for, and why it actually matters.

Hurricane Katrina was four years after 9/11. It *should* have been the first really, really major disaster under NIMS/ICS coordination. . . except pretty much NO ONE in the entire state of Louisiana had even the basic ICS training under their belt. So you have supporting agencies coming in going, "Okay, who is incident commander, where's the logistics coordinator, we've got supplies to unload and trained responders need to be sent where they're needed." and the locals are pretty literally, "Hurr durr, incident commander? The governor and the mayor and the police chief and the sheriff are still arguing who's in charge of what."

There's definitely some valid criticisms of NIMS/ICS, but "it's useless federal bureaucracy" is not one of them. The shortcomings of ICS mostly involve efficient handling of medium-scale incidents that kinda fall between everyday local operations and Really Big EVERY AGENCY disasters -- ICS is supposed to be modular but was really built for the big ones, and it shows.

 

[Zachowon]

As someone wotb ICS training and now separate incident command training due to military, that is about how I remember the online class I had to take in order ro get a job as a jailer