Fallout Fallout General Thread - War, War Never Changes. Nor do game engines.

Battlegrinder

Someday we will win, no matter what it takes.
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Obozny
So, since there's been a bit of discusssion of mods, fallout 3, and fallout NV, I figured I'd share my thoughts on some of the mods for those games. This won't cover retextures, patches, lighting adjustments, filters, etc. This is about the gameplay, not the visuals or making everything work right.

Fallout 3:

Underground Hideout
This one has been a longtime favorite of mine, because the player home it adds is, in addition to being a very nice looking and well made space, also very well designed as a player home, not just a character home. That means it has things that are useful to the player, like labeled storage spaces, scripts to automatically sort and store your gear, some very nice display racks and maniques to hold weapons and armor, and it collects some of the useful interactable devices like the wonder meat maker into one place, so you don't need to run all the way down into the jury street metro tunnels to use it. It also adds a bit of a minigame on top of all that, letting you build, upgrade, and defend an outpost on the surface against various enemies, which is a fun diversion. It also adds a handful of new weapons, none of which I'm a particular fan of but I'm sure some people like them.

The one issues I have with it are that with stuff like the meat maker, there's no cost to obtain it, it's just there as soon as you unlock the bunker, it would be nice if you had to at least find the original meat maker before you could unlock the one at the base.

D.C. Interiors Project
A nice little mod that adds some more interiors to the D.C ruins to explore and fight through. Regular D.C. Always feels a little boarded up, if you can enter a building 9 times out ten it's because there's a quest associated with it, and that made the game world feel a little small.

Weapon Mod Kits:
It's funny looking back at where the trend of weapon mods started. WMK was a huge thing back then, but now, with so much customization available (or even with the vastly superior NV version of this same mod), it looks almost dated, with a small collection of identical mods for nearly every weapon (or the rather odd looking double stack of fusion cells for laser weapons with upgraded ammo capacity, a look that I've never quite been sold on). Still, without it we probably wouldn't have the extensive customization and upgradability of the modern games, and we owe this mod a tribute for that.

Unless you're one of those people that used to make weapon mods by carefully designing just one, very nice model, and now find yourself having your workload quadrupled by the need to not just make one model, but make one model with a dozen different options for scopes, stocks, magazines, barrels, muzzles, etc. Those people probably don't like antistar very much.

Fallout Wanderer's Edition:
Much like WMK started the trend of weapon customization, I believe FWE is one of things that started the trend for ultrahard survival game modes in fallout. Fortunately, it also set the trend for those mods being highly customizable, so you can disable elements that make it a little bit too punishing...or make it even harder, if you're into that kinda of thing. The rebalancing and new weapons aspect also helps give you new opitions in gameplay or make other playstyles a bit more viable.

My main issue with it is that even with the rebalance, metal armor is still useless (at least for good characters, since Talon company will still hand you free combat armor on a regular basis, though the deliveryman are a bit more troublesome in this mod). I also have some issues with the new weapons, specifically that it brings back the Bozar from fallout 2. I generally don't like that kind of thing, I'd rather have unique weapons from past games stay in past games, rather than constantly pop up time and time again as shameless nostalgia pandering. It's lazy and takes up time and effort that could be spent on making something new, something special for the current game.

Darker Nights: Technically this is a lighting tweak, but also a gameplay tweak because it makes running around at night in fallout a much harder, more dangerous prospect, because, well, it's a bad idea to run around the post nuclear wasteland when you can't see. I think of it as kind of enforced immersion, where your character has to find somewhere to sleep not because there's a little bar at the bottom of the screen telling you so, but because otherwise you'll be chased down and murdered out in the darkness.

It also makes getting ahold of the night vision gear in FWE that much more empowering, since now you can finally turn the tables on the things out there.

Marts Mutant Mod:
MMR adds new enemies (mostly mutants, hence the name) to the game, to add more variety to the combat, along with new skins for the current set so it doesn't feel as much like there's a cloning vat somewhere in the ruins, spitting out copies of the same 3 ghouls. I have more mixed feelings about this one, while it's fun and it does a lot to make the combat feel less samey, the modelwork on several of the "new" monsters is a bit dubious. Some just look a bit too obviously like the base model with the proportions tweaked, and others just don't make sense. Frank Hogan, as a character, concept, was extremely dubious, it doesn't with the enclaves radical anti-mutant stance to have them strap a set of power armor onto a supermutant and use him as a super soldier, but he was at least a one off. The MMM enclave has a bunch of them, for reasons I cannot easily explain.

FOOK:
FWE is a gameplay overhaul done right, where the mod team had a very clear goal and did not lose focus on that goal during the mod design process. There was the the occasional minor excursion to add fan favorite weapons or do some minor bug fixing, but overall FWE had the goal of making a mod that made 3's combat better and harder, make overall survival more difficult, and rebalance the game in service of those two core goals.

FOOK did not have that focus. It's got a bunch of tweaks to the combat system, tons and tons of new weapons, new armor, new visuals, redesigned encounters, new followers, etc, all in service of who knows what end. There doesn't appear to be any clear goal behind these changes. Why did they add a bunch of modern firearms and combat armor so everyone looks all tacticool, and then also add a bunch of stuff that's kinda supposed to fit into the fallout world. What was the intended effect of the various changes they made to the combat system? It feels like the goals was to just make changes, without any clear vision of what they're supposed to be changing the game too.

I think you can tell a lot about someone by how they change and play a game, I think you can probably get a good sense of who I am is based on the mods I have here and what I have to say about them. Applying that same perspective to FOOK, all I get is "ADHD riddled CoD Fanboy".


NV

FOOK - New Vegas Edition
I don't think I'm the only one with a negative view of FOOK, because the NV version of the mod is significantly improved. It's been pared down significantly and now works to overhaul the game work to be a little bit more consistent or integrated (letting DLC weapons work with vanilla perks, changing armor names to reference what faction they're from, not having the GRA DLC just dump a bunch of new weapons into one shop or create two seemingly identical weapons with the only difference being mods, etc), some minor rebalances and bug fixes, and adding in a smaller number of new weapons and armors that actually fit the setting and fill in gaps or provide new tools. IE, there's now a police uniform to go with the vanilla police hat, some weapons that didn't have unique varients now do, etc.

I still have some issues with it, largely related to it being a bit too prone to prone to bringing stuff in from fallout 3 when it shouldn't (the auto axe, for example), but overall the NV version of FOOK is a vast improvement over the version of 3, and it's an excellent mod if you decide to use it.

Project Nevada:
PN is my go to game overhaul, although it's a bit weird. FWE had one, single goal that everything focused toward, making the game harder. Nevada has 3, largely unrelated ones, which it refers to as "modules" because they can be enabled or disabled indpently of one another.
The core module is a combat overhaul, that aimes to bring NV in line with more traditional FPS games. It doesn't quite get there, but it makes a good show of it and the system added or tweaked are quite nice.
A second module allows you to adjust overall mechanics to be harder/easier. things like controlling health, letting weapons bypass DT if you shoot someone in the head and they don't have a helmet, making supplies rarer and harder to find, etc.
The 3rd modules adds new equipment, a mix of new stuff and porting things from fallout 3.
And then there's a system that completely replaces and overhauls fallout NV's cyberware system, changing it from just some purchasabily SPECIAL upgrades into a slot based system containing implants that can, in addition to boosting SPECIAL, boost your stats directly, give you multiple vision mods, EMP burst, regain AP from kills, etc.

Overall, I like most of PN's changes, particular the FPS rework and difficulty controls. Some of the new weapons are a bit dubious (the chinese pistol was garbage back in 3 and that was not fixed by porting it to NV), but some are very nice, the Rail cannon, cryo revolver, Wattz laser rifle, and 5mm SMG being person favorites. The cyberware portion is the one I have the most reservations about. While it works very well and provides powerful tools to the player, the vanilla cyberware clinic was already toeing the line of what I can really consider to be setting appropriate. This crosses that line.

HK G3SG1
Ok, now I realize I'm going to sound kinda hypocritical for complaining that other mods port weapons from past games into the current one, and then come in talking up a mod that brings in a gun that's basically the R91 into NV, but here me out. The real world G3, while obviously the inspiration for the R91, is in reality and this mod a very different weapon. The R91 is an assault rifle, this mod is a battle rifle or, with the scope mod, a DRM. It fills a role that NV doesn't really have a ton of other weapons for, and is definitely not me clinging to a prefered weapon out of stubborn nostalgia.

Weapon Mods Expanded:
WMX (yes, WMX, not WME. WME is another, IMO inferior, weapon mod mod) is the true successor to the same mod from 3, but vastly improved. Weapon mods fit the weapon better and look they belong there, as opposed to 3 where many of them were clearly just reused assets (such as extended magazines for the assault rifles often being the magazines of other weapons being reused), most of these new mods are customized for each weapon and more or less seamlessly fit into place. It also makes the system much more consistent, every weapon can be modded and every weapon has 3 mods, including uniques and otherwise unmoddable ones. It also adds several new weapons. Most are forgettable, but the M2 borwning HMG is a standout exception, it's an amazing weapon (for reasons explained later) and exactly the kind of heavy weapon that fallout power armor should be using (and indeed, they are using it now in 76).

The one issue is that while ranged weapons are generally excellent, melee weapons are not quite as lucky. While still well done, they tend to be a bit more generic. Lots of very samy looking grips or new blade textures, every blunt weapons gets wrapped in barbed wire, etc. Many of those upgrades also need to be crafted, rather than bought, and while you will almost inevitably be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the hell that is NV crafting, I cannot condone sending people there on purpose.

This mod is also one of the mods that I'll say requires other mods to best use. weapon mod menu is the big one, as it lets you remove weapon mods, which you'll want to have for this because sometimes you won't want to have a scope or similar mod installed. Weapon mod vending machines are also a very good idea, as it let's you bypass the messy melee weapon mod crafting or find a specific mod that vendors are seemingly never selling.

The Someguy Series:
A set of story mods by mod author Someguy, these mods add hours of new content to the game. Fully voice acted, with a handful of unique items, perks, integration with the main game (for example, if you kill a certain legion NPC prior to one of the quests in this series, a friend of that NPC will ambush you to get revenge), etc. I can't speak highly enough of these mods, but I also can't speak too much about them because of spoilers.

Ammo crafting schematics:
Once the need to craft better ammo types drags your into the crafting system, this mod will help you get the most out of it. It won't, and can't, make the crafting system better, but it will at least ensure that it's doing the most that it can do. It's like making sure all the pitchforks you're about to be stabbed with are freshly polished and have handles in good condition, and that the coals you'll be dragged over are the finest, highest quality coals to be found.

Functional Post Game Ending:
Exactly what it says on the tin

Darker Nights:
Same as fallout 3, though now NV is from PN and not FWE.

Underground Hideout:

Yet another mod from fallout 3 that returned in a vastly improved form to NV, most of what was said before still applies. The changes/improvements, however, are considerable, and are enough to have the hideout beat out the Sink for best NV player home. The biggest one is that the hideout will actually change as you unlock quests, adding decorations as you go along. For example, upon completing "Bleed me dry" some hunting trophies appear on the main wall. The same happens as you complete the DLCs. Secondly, it has a much larger display room for armor and various items, almost twice the space as the old hideout. It's also got some kind of scripting to link various containers, so you can transfer crafting supplies between containers instead of having to manually carry them around.

There are also some improvements to how the hideout works as far as drawbacks go. there's an optional system to make the hideout system's consume power, and the need to obtain and buy more fuel for the reactor finally adds a cost to all the benefits the base provides. Just keeping the lights one doesn't drain much, but if you make heavy use of the water purifier, rad scrubber, greenhouse, etc, those will drain power faster. Secondly, some features like the indoor farm don't work at first, you actually need to go out and collect plants before you can grow anything you want. The quest to unlock is also a fair bit harder and you actually have to work at it a bit, rather than just following a bunch of quest markers.

There are some definite issues, however. First off, the hideout is located near spring mountain park. That is, to the direct north of goodsprings, past all the cazadors placed there to stop you from going exactly that way. I do not like it when a player home is located where you cannot easily access it and will therefore have to stash extra gear somewhere else and ferry it over to that home, there's a reason both 3 and 4 gave you a secure place to store gear almost right off the bat (unless you're evil, then you get to try and hike all the way over to tenpenny tower). Secondly, some giant mantises spawn nearby, so you'll frequently have issues with being unable to fast travel away from the area until you clear them out. Third, the aboveground base defense minigame was removed, so once you unlock the base there's really nothing else to do (plus some turrets and guard towers would really help with the mantis issue). Finally, the mod's last update was prior to GRA. so those weapons won't display or auto sort onto the armory racks, nor will GRA ammo auto sort.

A World of Pain:
One of the things that NV is missing compared to 3 is dungeons, that is, enclosed environments full of monsters, traps, loot, etc. AWOP fixes that by adding a number of small to mid sized dungeons scattered around the world much like the ones in 3.....and also a giant, branching, interconnected mega-dungeon that has entrances and exits scattered all over the map. I have spent hours fighting my way through a single path of that dungeon, often transitioning between two or three factions of enemies as a I proceed, before I finally reaching an exit. It's not like the small dungeons where you can, with good aim and diligent looting, come out with more ammo and aid than you started with, the mega dungeon is a test of your preparations and skill, because you will run low on ammo and health and have either fall back or get creative to survive. I've only hand to melee fight my way through a few areas to reach an exit a few times, but it has happened.

This is not to say that there's no reason to go down there, AWOP does have some unique weapons and items, many of which can surpass base game gear. But in my mind AWOP isn't about the loot, it's about the experiences you have with it. I don't remember getting some shiny new gun, but I do remember carefully sneaking through a ruined science lab, low on ammo and meds, carefully picking off enemies one at a time and scounging just enough ammo from each kill to keep my guns loaded, knowing one mistake would start a firefight I couldn't win. AWOP isn't for everyone, but for some people it's probably their favorite mod, myself included. Well, that or Monster Mash, which is by that same author and is basically just AWOP but more so and in a single dungeon.

And yes, this mod is why you need the M2 browning, there are places in AWOP that I cannot understand how you're supposed to beat without such weapons because even with a .50 cal heavy machine gun, it was an incredibly tough fight. Which I do still like, it makes seeking out powerful weapons like the M2 a useful and important task as part of your preparation, and not just a case of you running around with an over the top death machine (That said, the M2 is priced to be an over the top death machine, so you'll probably want to complete Dead Money in order to afford it).

Oh, and speaking of Dead Money, there's AWOP content there as well. It's actually not as bad as the main game, and the AWOP areas in Dead Money have unique vending machine codes that let you buy more things from the machines, most notably a wider variety of ammo.


All of that said, the mod has a few issues. The first is that the mods adds new NPCs, new quests, a new town, etc, but has no voice acting, which is a minor but glaring issue. It also reworks the goodsprings gunfight a bit by making it much harder, and adds a number of heavily armored high level NPCs to towns as guards for.....some reason. As I was writing this I checked the mod and it was actually just updated to try and fix that latter issue, but as I haven't played it myself I'm not sure how well it worked. There are patches to get around that and reset goodsprings to how it was originally, though with the new update they might not work.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Very topical at the moment. More Fallout lore has become prophecy...

"But there are MANY animals to shape. Industrious Cazadores, the happy-go-lucky Nightstalkers... they are my living, breathing DNA test tubes."

"You are responsible for Cazadors?"

"Indeed. Docile. Curious. Safe. Sterile. They are contained here at Big MT to preserve DNA and for observation."


FB_IMG_1589214670332.jpg


#MurderHornets
 

Battlegrinder

Someday we will win, no matter what it takes.
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Obozny
More thoughts on fallout 4:


BLD induced changes keep popping up in a lot of odd places. Remember in the base game when you meet Nick, and then have a standoff with Skinny Malone and some of his mooks, and they've all got like some basic assault rifles or something, just sitting around waiting for your to shoot them? Well now in BLD, you have a standoff, with Skinny Malone and two other guys, and they have assault rifles, and they're already pointing them at you. It's amazing how tempting that speech option to try and talk them down becomes, once it actually means something to have someone pointing a gun at you.


Granted, it doesn't mean a lot, I still killed them all, since they had the poor judgement to not give me a good reason to not shoot them, and the even worse judgement worth more XP dead than the speech check for sparing them gives you, but it was hard and I had to really work at it and come up with a plan and also take lots of drugs.


Something about this playthrough really crystalized something that had bothered me about fallout 4, namely the starting position. In and 3 and NV, you started very close to a town, and in 3 you could get a house without even leaving that town. I haven't done that in my last few playthroughs, I run over to rivet city to unlock the underground hideout, but still. You start off very grounded, at a quest hub with vendors and things to do. 4 doesn't do that, and while it leads you to diamond city eventually, the starting experience is very different. 4 just feels so much emptier, even though in practice it's supposed to be about the same. I set up my player home at the coastal cottage last time, and I'll probably do so again this time, but it took days to get to that point, before I that I didn't have have a "home", just a storage building.
 

Battlegrinder

Someday we will win, no matter what it takes.
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i counted that in the .44's varints

Fair enough. Though I'd note that it is somewhat functionally different, at least in in that's upgrades give it greater damage than the vanilla .44, but it lacks the latter's range of barrel options or the ability to mount a recon scope.

I'd also note that fallout 4 is not unusual in having a limited range of .44 caliber weapons. Fallout 3 only had two, the .44 revolver )and it's various unique variants), and Lincoln's repeater, which was a nice enough gun but tended to see little use because the backwater rifle was nearly as good and way easier to keep loaded.

NV had 3, the .44 revolver and it's uniques, the trail carbine (which, like the repeater, was nice enough but was overshadowed by other weapons, weapons that were actually flat out superior in NV's case), and FIDO, which was just junk.

4 did cut back a bit, but really they only dumped the .44 rifle that previous games had, because it just wasn't useful.

i guess i just want a greater variety of options that feel more like someone sat down and thought it through rather than being "hey this looks cool"

Can you explain what you mean by that, because I would actually say that 4 is better about that than previous games, particular NV. Let me explain.

Yes, NV had options, but in a lot of ways it took that too far. NV had 10 pistols, most of which had a unique version, all shooting different ammo calibers (save for the police pistol and the .357). In some ways, this is an improvement over 3, where it just had the 10mm, the .32, the .44, and the chinese 10mm, but in a lot of other ways it's much worse. At least in 3, those pistols felt different and distinct from one another, even if sometimes that was because they were just flat out worse than another weapon (I'm pretty sure the chinese pistol only exists so raiders can shoot at you with something that's not as deadly as the N99 10mm). NV's guns just blur together and start to feel really samey, particularly after perks and upgrades start letting lower level ones catch up to late game.

Effectively, NV has 3 pistols. The low damage revolver, the semi-auto, and the high damage revolver (now, go back and look at 3's list, and tell me what you see). Now, maybe the high damage revolver is sometimes That Gun and sometimes it's Lucky and sometimes it's the Hunting Revolver, but it feels like it's the same gun no matter how it looks. NV did not need a matched set of pistols and SMGs in 9mm, 10mm, and .45 ACP, they're so similar to one another that they don't add anything meaningful.

That said, I think at least part of NV's issue was that they wanted to make sure players had a sidearm that shared ammo with whatever their primary was, because they were still figuring out survival mode and ammo weights, so we got this over-proliferation of extra stuff because they wanted to make sure players didn't have to lug around an extra gun and it's ammo because they have a service rifle but no handgun chambered in 5.56. That is a commendable effort, if misguided.

The same cannot be said of NV's melee weapons, however. NV has 6 power fists, which are either interchangeable or direct upgrades to one another. NV has 10 knives or knife like weapons. NV has like two dozen blunt weapons, nearly all of which are garbage. If you need to give raiders some kind of crappy melee weapon that doesn't hurt the player too much, fine. Give them one, maybe two. NV has 12 (knife, switchblade, 9 iron, hatchet, lead pipe, straight razor, nailboard, cleaver, pool cue, baton, rolling pin, tire iron), several of which have unique versions for who knows what reason. Yeah, that's right, come at me Humble Cudgel fans, I'm hating on your favorite weapon.....oh, wait, you don't exist, my bad.

If you want to talk about just tossing weapons into the game with no thought behind it, then NV is far guiltier of that than 4.



By contrast 4 does several things very well with weapons.

First, it trims out a lot of the useless garbage weapons. Not all of them, sadly, but a chunk, and the ones it keeps have at least some legitimate reason for being there. There are characters in the world that would logically use a police baton. There are lots of people that would use the revolutionary sword, including PCs for once. The only really issue is that I think we didn't need the tire iron and the pipe wrench and the lead pipe and the rolling pin as improvised melee weapons, half of those could have been cut, the pool cue is still useless, and the walking cane is even more useless.

Secondly, and much more importantly, even the remaining low tier weapons have a role now. Pipe weapons are actually useful to the player, instead of being trash relegated to raiders. Granted, they lose effectiveness after the early game, but there's nothing wrong with that, and since they have their own ammo type you can use them without feeling like you're doing something wrong or wasting ammo that could be better used. They're also a really good introduction to the weapon modding mechanic, since upgrade costs are so low, which means players can experiment freely and find what works for them, rather than having to try that same experimenting with much costlier late game weapons. And finally, because raiders continue to carry them, they help give that faction it's own identity and letting groups like the gunners with military hardware lean more into that role. Imagine if the vipers, jackals, and scorpions had their own preferences for weapons and gear, instead of just being three identical groups with different names?

Finally, all of 4's guns feel like they fit the were designed for a given role? You have a pistol, starter shotgun, upgraded shotgun, SMG, sniper rifle, general purpose rifle, power armor rifle, missile launcher, minigun, flamer, fat man, etc. Bethesda covered all their bases pretty well as far as design goes. Balance was a bit a wonky, but they tried, I think there were only two real oversights. The combat rifle looks a bit too much like the shotgun and can't fire 5.56, so you have to use the assault rifle that was designed to fit the scale of power armor (and bethesda's attempt to correct that with December's Child didn't quite work out), and the 10mm pistol is similarly oversized for the same reason, and they should have a 1911 or something else chambered in .45 ACP to be the standard, non-power armor handgun. But overall, they did a fairly good job with the core weapons, and then on top of that they added a bunch of fun weapons for people to experiment and play around with.

I will say that those fun weapons do tend to have balance issues, typically being inefficient for one reason or another, but they're rarely inefficient to the point of not being useful, and to a point I think that's the correct decision. Fallout is supposed to be grounded, and if you make it a world where things like the broadsider and cryolater are just as viable as conventional weapons, it loses some of that grounding. On the other hand, if you make it a post apoc CoD clone with just a bunch of random guns, it'll get really boring, really fast (this is why I hate nuka world adding the AKM. I am sick of tired of the AKM showing up all the time, it's way overexposed. There is nothing new or interesting you could possibly do with the AKM and I wish people would stop trying).
 

stephen the barbarian

Well-known member
an you explain what you mean by that
1]i'm only talking about firearms,
melee weapons aren't important enough to get hot and bothered about, and energy weapons are futurific enough that i can give them a pass

First, it trims out a lot of the useless garbage weapons.
4 has fully active modding, nv's modding is very limited
the only way to upgrade the play style of your character was to switch out the gun you're using for the next tier
the most clear cut example are the bolt action guns in nv vs. 4
nv progresses varmint rifle (5.56) -> hunting rifle (.308) -> amr (.50)
in 4 you can just and mod the hunting rifle to get what you want

Pipe weapons are actually useful
no, they're not they're vender trash from the get go,
the 10mm pistol, the combat rifle and the hunting rifle are better in every way and available so early that the pipe guns might as well not exist

Finally, all of 4's guns feel like they fit the were designed for a given role

i'm not seeing how nv guns don't
 

Battlegrinder

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Obozny
1]i'm only talking about firearms,
melee weapons aren't important enough to get hot and bothered about, and energy weapons are futurific enough that i can give them a pass

I would disagree with both of those statements. Melee and energy weapons are both supposed to be viable playstyles, and even if you don't use them, designing those weapons still represents a diversion of developer resources and speaks to how they intended the game to go.

Furthermore, even if you don't use them, other characters do, and that can really shape how they come across. In 3, Talon Company just feels like a bunch of raiders with better armor, because they use the same weapons, whereas in NV a legion raiding party and and an gang of fiends feel distinct, or how in 4 raiders and gunners have their own very different styles.

4 has fully active modding, nv's modding is very limited
the only way to upgrade the play style of your character was to switch out the gun you're using for the next tier
the most clear cut example are the bolt action guns in nv vs. 4
nv progresses varmint rifle (5.56) -> hunting rifle (.308) -> amr (.50)
in 4 you can just and mod the hunting rifle to get what you want

I'm not really seeing that as as all that different. Yes, in 4 you just have one rifle that you mod, but given that modding it turns it from this:
latest


into this:

latest


I can't really say that's "one gun", given they look nothing alike.

And given that turning into that ultra modern sniper rifle requires the same kind of significant perk investment that was required to use an AMR in NV, this doesn't really come across as being meaningfully different. Yes, in 4 rather than being a different gun it's the same gun at the end of a long, theseusian upgrade path that turns it into another, entirely different looking gun...but I don't really see what's lost by doing it that way.

no, they're not they're vender trash from the get go,
the 10mm pistol, the combat rifle and the hunting rifle are better in every way and available so early that the pipe guns might as well not exist

You must play on a different difficulty or something than I do, because in my experience, and even disregarding the changes BLD makes, those guns might be available, but ammo for them is not, at least not to the point you can comfortable use just those weapons with no need to fall back on pipes. I suppose you could run around wasting 10mm rounds on radroaches and bloatflys, but I can't say that's a wise decision.

there's also the fact that they and other low tier weapons can easily be used to arm settlers, so even if not useful as a player weapon they still have some use overall.

i'm not seeing how nv guns don't

I was under the impression you were arguing that 4 had a bunch of guns that were just tossed in because someone thought it was cool and tossed it in, rather than thinking it through.

As for NV, I would argue that in cases weapons were tossed in without real planning. It's how you get them having like 10 handguns that all overlap (there is no reason to have both the 1911 and the hi power, pick one pistol and have people use that), or guns that are just flat out useless like the single shotgun, which I've used maybe twice in a vanilla game because it's obsoleted by the caravan shotgun almost immediately. Even stuff like the varmint rifle is dumped as soon as you get to the mojave outpost (if not sooner), because you get a better-in-every-way service rifle for free there.
 

Battlegrinder

Someday we will win, no matter what it takes.
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Obozny
So, more mod reviews:

ODST Battle armor
ODST Battle Armor

I have decidedly mixed thoughts on this one. One the one hand, it looks amazing, for the most part, and it's got a load of highly detailed customization options for most of the armor, both cosmetic and functional, including a number of unique options. You can install components that give you active camo, boost your damage output, increase jump height, add rad resistances, add a VISR system, etc. It's very cool and well implemented, and provides a number of very powerful combat options.

However, it's not all roses. There are a number of minor issues with the armor, such as the wrist customization clipping with your pip-boy when you bring it up, the fact that the Halo 1 armor has a lot a fewer options than the ones from 2 and 3 (which is even more of an issue as the armor from 1 is the one that best fits into the fallout setting), and as they're all one piece sets, they have much weaker resistances than vanilla armor and 1/5 the number of legendary slots a vanilla set could provide (maybe 2/5 or so, since you can have a legendary and the active camo). and while the VISR system works very well, the night vision effect the set provides is....a bit iffy.

Also, and this applies to vanilla armors as well, but it bothers me that female characters can't have long hair and a helmet at the same time, as the helmet hides the character's hair when equipped. Still, the halo 1 helmet is thus far my favorite bit of headgear, aside from my minuteman hat.


Functional Displays
Functional Displays - Display Your Collection (The Original Display DLC)

As noted in the comments for this mod, it's prone to buggy behavior from time to time. I can specifically confirm that the weapon wall displays do not work, as they're prone to randomly applying various mods to whatever weapons you place on them. The other stuff is sometimes functional, sometimes not, depends on the case. I'd still recommend it, you just have to be careful how you use it.


Better Armory Mod
Better Armory Mod (BAM) - Weapon Racks and More

Since the weapon displays in Functional Displays don't, uh, function, I needed a replacement. BAM is a tiny bit more finicky than FD, since getting a weapon to go into the racks requires a bit more precision clicking, and it does have clipping issues with certain weapons. However, the end effect is much nicer, as it looks a lot more realistic than the normal displays that just have weapons hover on the board somehow.

The one issue is that there's not really a good way to store some weapons. SMGs in particular can be tricky, as they're not quite the right size for either the pistol racks or the rifle racks.


HK G3/Service Rifle
HK G3 Family
Service Rifle

As I mentioned before, 4 does have a few issues with weapon selection, most notably the fact that it lacks a 5.56 caliber rifle that's sized for non-power armor characters, outside of one weapon from far harbor. I now have the opposite problem of having too many 5.56 caliber rifles, as both of these rifles come stock in that caliber, plus I have an MA5 and an MA37 which are both presently chambered in that. Though as all of those rifles can be rechambered, that issue will eventually be addressed.

Both of these rifles are highly customizable, the G3 being on par with the standard combat rifle, and the service rifle going much farther. In particular, while the G3 leans closer to the vanilla weapons with having only a few upgrade paths, the service rifle is a bit more versatile. Which is something of a double edged sword, because it also means that now I'm going to need to collect a rack full of them.

I will note that the G3, when equipped with wooden furniture, will change it's name to R91, a nice nod to fallout 3. It's also worth noting that both mods add unique versions of the base weapon to the game, with unique models and effects.

Berretta 92FS
Beretta M9-FS Pistol (92FS)

As downloaded, this is a 10mm weapon, and as a sidearm it's a perfectly viable supplement/replacement for the standard 10mm, and it also has it's own set of unique models (though so far they all have standard legendary effects like vanilla unique weapons).

However, in my game I modded it to fire .38, which while not the same as the 9mm parabellum the real M9 fires, is close enough for this game, and lets the pistol have it's own unique role apart from the stock 10mm.


Misriah Armory (and the BR55 mod by the same team)
https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/39368

Because I just didn't have enough guns, I guess. There's too much to go into detail on every gun, but in summary every weapon in the pack is not merely viable, but viable and creates it's own niche that adds new capabilities, such as the M45 shotgun's ability to fire slugs or 8 gauge shot that's more effective than 12 gauge at close range and less at long range. This applies even more so in BLD, as the scripted headshot ability makes some abilities very powerful. The M6D chambered in .50 is a fantastic emergency weapon because a .50 round will kill nearly everything in a single clean hit (so basically it's the M6D from CE, but even more so).

MTS-255
https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/31240

A russian made shotgun revolver, can be modded into either a rifle or a handgun with a 5 shot capacity. I'm not sure how you can fire 12 gauge shells out of a handgun and not break your wrist, but if you want that now you can. In fact that's kind of it's selling point, as even the vanilla game has plenty of two handed shotguns, so one that works with gunslinger really helps characters speced into those weapons.


CROSS Plasrail
https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/13850/

I've always hated fallout's stock plasma weapons, so having one that fits the setting that looks good is really handy. The Plasrail doesn't quite replace the stock weapon and instead exists as it's own thing with it's own rules, which I actually like because it truely feels like plasma weapons are differant than lasers, rather than just being lasers that shoot a bit slower and use a differant ammo type for some reason.
 

Duke Nukem

Hail to the king baby
So, more mod reviews:

ODST Battle armor
ODST Battle Armor

I have decidedly mixed thoughts on this one. One the one hand, it looks amazing, for the most part, and it's got a load of highly detailed customization options for most of the armor, both cosmetic and functional, including a number of unique options. You can install components that give you active camo, boost your damage output, increase jump height, add rad resistances, add a VISR system, etc. It's very cool and well implemented, and provides a number of very powerful combat options.

However, it's not all roses. There are a number of minor issues with the armor, such as the wrist customization clipping with your pip-boy when you bring it up, the fact that the Halo 1 armor has a lot a fewer options than the ones from 2 and 3 (which is even more of an issue as the armor from 1 is the one that best fits into the fallout setting), and as they're all one piece sets, they have much weaker resistances than vanilla armor and 1/5 the number of legendary slots a vanilla set could provide (maybe 2/5 or so, since you can have a legendary and the active camo). and while the VISR system works very well, the night vision effect the set provides is....a bit iffy.

Also, and this applies to vanilla armors as well, but it bothers me that female characters can't have long hair and a helmet at the same time, as the helmet hides the character's hair when equipped. Still, the halo 1 helmet is thus far my favorite bit of headgear, aside from my minuteman hat.


Functional Displays
Functional Displays - Display Your Collection (The Original Display DLC)

As noted in the comments for this mod, it's prone to buggy behavior from time to time. I can specifically confirm that the weapon wall displays do not work, as they're prone to randomly applying various mods to whatever weapons you place on them. The other stuff is sometimes functional, sometimes not, depends on the case. I'd still recommend it, you just have to be careful how you use it.


Better Armory Mod
Better Armory Mod (BAM) - Weapon Racks and More

Since the weapon displays in Functional Displays don't, uh, function, I needed a replacement. BAM is a tiny bit more finicky than FD, since getting a weapon to go into the racks requires a bit more precision clicking, and it does have clipping issues with certain weapons. However, the end effect is much nicer, as it looks a lot more realistic than the normal displays that just have weapons hover on the board somehow.

The one issue is that there's not really a good way to store some weapons. SMGs in particular can be tricky, as they're not quite the right size for either the pistol racks or the rifle racks.


HK G3/Service Rifle
HK G3 Family
Service Rifle

As I mentioned before, 4 does have a few issues with weapon selection, most notably the fact that it lacks a 5.56 caliber rifle that's sized for non-power armor characters, outside of one weapon from far harbor. I now have the opposite problem of having too many 5.56 caliber rifles, as both of these rifles come stock in that caliber, plus I have an MA5 and an MA37 which are both presently chambered in that. Though as all of those rifles can be rechambered, that issue will eventually be addressed.

Both of these rifles are highly customizable, the G3 being on par with the standard combat rifle, and the service rifle going much farther. In particular, while the G3 leans closer to the vanilla weapons with having only a few upgrade paths, the service rifle is a bit more versatile. Which is something of a double edged sword, because it also means that now I'm going to need to collect a rack full of them.

I will note that the G3, when equipped with wooden furniture, will change it's name to R91, a nice nod to fallout 3. It's also worth noting that both mods add unique versions of the base weapon to the game, with unique models and effects.

Berretta 92FS
Beretta M9-FS Pistol (92FS)

As downloaded, this is a 10mm weapon, and as a sidearm it's a perfectly viable supplement/replacement for the standard 10mm, and it also has it's own set of unique models (though so far they all have standard legendary effects like vanilla unique weapons).

However, in my game I modded it to fire .38, which while not the same as the 9mm parabellum the real M9 fires, is close enough for this game, and lets the pistol have it's own unique role apart from the stock 10mm.


Misriah Armory (and the BR55 mod by the same team)
Misriah Armory

Because I just didn't have enough guns, I guess. There's too much to go into detail on every gun, but in summary every weapon in the pack is not merely viable, but viable and creates it's own niche that adds new capabilities, such as the M45 shotgun's ability to fire slugs or 8 gauge shot that's more effective than 12 gauge at close range and less at long range. This applies even more so in BLD, as the scripted headshot ability makes some abilities very powerful. The M6D chambered in .50 is a fantastic emergency weapon because a .50 round will kill nearly everything in a single clean hit (so basically it's the M6D from CE, but even more so).

MTS-255
MTs-255 Revolver Shotgun

A russian made shotgun revolver, can be modded into either a rifle or a handgun with a 5 shot capacity. I'm not sure how you can fire 12 gauge shells out of a handgun and not break your wrist, but if you want that now you can. In fact that's kind of it's selling point, as even the vanilla game has plenty of two handed shotguns, so one that works with gunslinger really helps characters speced into those weapons.


CROSS Plasrail
CROSS PlasRail

I've always hated fallout's stock plasma weapons, so having one that fits the setting that looks good is really handy. The Plasrail doesn't quite replace the stock weapon and instead exists as it's own thing with it's own rules, which I actually like because it truely feels like plasma weapons are differant than lasers, rather than just being lasers that shoot a bit slower and use a differant ammo type for some reason.
The Archimedes II mod is pretty cool too.
 

Battlegrinder

Someday we will win, no matter what it takes.
Moderator
Staff Member
Founder
Obozny
There's a couple big total conversion mods for fallout 4 coming out. My impression is that Miami is the farthest along, but there's also attempts underway to rebuild all of fallout 3 and NV in 4's engine (it seems the mod community has pretty much given up on trying to fix the combat system in those games via in-game mods).

There's also Fallout Frontier for NV, which is either a total conversion or just a big, DLC sized mod. Last I heard it was getting close to release but I haven't payed much attension because the premise seems uninteresting.


and speaking of 76, I hear its.....well, it's not good yet, but it's been patched up at least to the point that it's tolerable.
 

Battlegrinder

Someday we will win, no matter what it takes.
Moderator
Staff Member
Founder
Obozny
So, it's been a while since I've posted a mod review, and in the interim I've gotten to play around with a number of new weapons or versions of them, plus some other mods. As always, this is in a game where I'm running better locational damage as a base mod, so your experience on a version of fallout that's not an ultrahard tactical FPS will be different.

Regarding BLD, I haven't changed my opinion on it for the most part, though I will update it with one important element. Because of how BLD works, fights with human/humanish enemies are much tougher and much more reward, since the playing field between them and the player is much more even. However, this comes at a slight cost to non-human enemies, which suffer a bit from the low level fights being rebalanced to give humans more firepower and a shorter TTK. Deathclaws, sentry bots, and other tough, tanky enemies suffer heavily, because while they're still more powerful than the player, the general damage/health rework means that thier increased firepower is not actually useful. A sentry bot with a minigun is very dangerous, yes....but so is some random gunner with an LMG, and the minigun's boost in damage over that basically translate to "you'll die if it catches you out of cover for more than 2 seconds" over the LMG's "you'll die if caught out of cover for 3 seconds". Deathclaws can withstand anti-tank missiles about as well as any creature of a similar size and mass can, IE, "not even slightly".

This isn't to say that they're not dangerous, if a deathclaw catches you unaware at close quarters you're dead meat, unless you have power armor (then you're dead canned meat). But outside of that, they suffer really, really badly. I explored most of the glowing sea last week, and cleared out most of it with an assault rifle. I think the biggest, meanest claw I ran into took about a magazine and a half to drop, and it didn't get closer than 20 meters or so. Out in the open, with nothing to break up my line of sight, deathclaws were easy prey (though I didn't get it all my own way, I got mauled when the weather changed and cut down visibility severely, and a claw managed to get into combat range).

To start with, an update to my review of the G3:
HK G3 Family

One thing I failed to make clear in my previous review was that while the G3 has about the same number of possible modifications as the base game combat rifle, it's actually much more flexible and configurable. A combat rifle with a short barrel and stock is...I dunno, some kinda wonky VATS-centric thing, I guess? A G3 with those parts gets it's name changed to a HK-51, and is an entirely functional SMG. A .308 SMG, which in BLD is just mean. You can also mod it into a sniper rifle and a LMG, but I'm not a huge fan of those.

The PSR-1 sniper rifle is the more concerning of the two. Unlike G3/R91/HK51 group, which all add either new capabilities to the player or grant access to those capabilities much sooner than you normally obtain them, the PSR doesn't bring anything new to the table. It's a .308 caliber rifle, fallout already has several of those. It's ability to be rechambered into 5.56 is...unique, yes, but I'm not sure why someone would choose to do that under normal play. I found a nice for it, since in BLD 5.56 can headshot humans but not mutants, so I fit the PSR with an assassin's legendary effect and use it for raider/gunner hunting, saving my .308 for more serious targets, but in the course of a more normal game, where 5.56 is a pure downgrade from .308 and I don't have multiple automatic weapons chewing through my stockpile of .308 rounds....I'm not sure what role this gun would play.

The H-11 has a slightly similar issue. An LMG chambered in .308 is something new to fallout, and to my game as well, since while the MA5B uses the same round out of an even larger magazine, it lacks the accuracy at mid to to long range that the H-11 possess. Unfortunately, being more accurate than an MA5 derived rifle is not a very high bar, and the H-11's chief competitor is actually the vanilla assault rifle....since the vanilla rifle is really an LMG in it's own right. A fully modded assault rifle quite can't match the 11's damage per round, but it's close, and it can keep pace with the the rate of fire and it carries 80 rounds to the H-11's 50. Those tip the scales in the vanilla weapon's favor and let it retain it's title of fallout 4's best bullet hose. The H-11's main edge is that, unlike that AR, it looks good when used outside of power armor, while the other weapon is comically oversized in human hands (though this works in reverse as well. I think the laser rifle is the only gun that works in both).

And speaking of lasers:
Wattz Laser Gun

The Wattz 3000 mod brings an updated version of the Wattz 2000 from the isometric games into the 3D era. I won't talk much about stats since with BLD, exact numbers generally don't matter too much. Instead, I'll focus more on the feel of the gun and how it plays.

For one, it's not quite as customizable as the AER9. The AER9 has the barrel and muzzle split up compared to the Wattz, so while you can can make an automatic laser shotgun for the AER9, with the Wattz you just pick which barrel you want. I'm not a huge fan of that, but it's an understandable choice given that it lets the modder design the gun so that each configuration looks good. The AER9's design for some configs can sometimes get a bit wonky looking, such as the sniper barrel + beam splitter laser shotgun build. Another interesting element of the Wattz is that one of the mods is a fire mode switch, allowing you to set it to fire either full auto or semi auto (no burst fire, sadly).

As an aside, whenever fallout 5 comes out I really hope it adds the ability to just toggle between different fire modes on the fly, rather than needing to go to a work bench and flip between the two.

Visually, it's pretty good. A bit too blocky and square for my taste, since it really gives away the fact that this was heavily based on a blocky, low res image from the earlier games, but otherwise it looks great, with the different barrels and parts easily distinguishing themselves from one another. The combat barrel is particularly nice, resembling a laser M-16 which really fits with the fallout setting, as opposed to the the sniping mini-lasers on the AER9's auto barrel, which is a look I can't stand. The shotgun and sniper barrels are, by comparison, a bit uninspired looking, but they're serviceable enough. My only issues in game is that the reload speed feels slow compared to the AER9, and that when configured as a pistol, the Wattz is massively oversized.

Like a lot of modded weapons, it comes with unique variants, that are both visually and mechanically different from base-game weapons. So far I've found 2/3 of them, with my favorite of the bunch being an enclave variant that was reengineering into a plasma weapon, though given how much I loathe fallout's standard plasma weapons I'll admit that's not much of an endorsement, anything is better than those abominations.

Moving onto armor, I have more mixed feelings about this next one:
The Mercenary - Pack

The Mercenary pack adds a few new sets of armor and clothing, some heavily customizable, some not, plus a few other accessories. Most of it fits well with with the setting and all of it is very well made, but there's something that bugs me about nearly every bit of it.

The most/least troubling is the salvaged NCR ranger armor. There's nothing functionally wrong with the set, but as I've said many a time before, I hate these "oh hey, look, here's that thing from that other game coming back again for some reason" mods, particularly when it's completely nonsensical stuff like having gear from the NCR make it's way all the way over to Boston (more limited stuff, like the Wattz and R91 that prior games established as widespread in the setting are more tolerable).

The next set is the flagship mercenary armor. For the most part I have no issues with it, save for the gas mask headpiece that looks a little bit too deadshot-esqe to fit into fallout, but other than that it looks fine, works fine, has decent stats, etc. The problem is how it works in game. Like all fallout 4 armor sets, it has the usual set of arm/leg/chest/head parts. Unlike most fallout 4 modded sets, it also has an outfit that combines all of them into one suit, that takes up all body regions and has about as DR as the full (thankfull, the full outfit is just the body parts, not that atrocious helmet). This causes several issues.

The biggest one, of course, is that it's a severe nerf to the player, since you're going from wearing a set of 6 items with legendary gear, to wearing one, and marginally higher DR is not worth losing out on 5 legendary effects.

The typical solution would therefor be to not wear the outfit, however the full outfit has several bits of armor that the individual bots don't. For example, the kneepads on the full outfit are only on the outfit, if you just put on on the leg armor it will only show the thigh and shin plates, and it looks weird.

The next solution would be to just wear the regular plates over the outfit (I don't know if this is possible normally, but it's possible if you have armorsmith extended, and the Merc pack was designed to be compatible with AE by default), but that also doesn't work. If you equip the standard merc armor over the outfit, they'll clip, messily. This can be fixed by making the normal armor invisible via AE, but given that, again, this armor is AE compatible out of the box, I can't really say this workaround excuses the orginal problem. These problems are easily anticipated, and easily fixed by just having the outfit work as normal under-armor (like road leathers, synth uniforms, etc) and keeping all the armored parts as part of the body armor rather than part of the underarmor.

The remaining bits of the mod are mostly clothing, which unlike the armor, work just fine in all respects, at least when worn as clothing by themselves. When used alongside armor their can be some clipping issues, but that's simply inevitable.
 

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