Not a bad idea at all.Given the sheer number of tweets being deleted by Twitter, I am going to request that we follow the Spacebattles rule about tweets and post a text copy of any tweet that get's posted.
Not a bad idea at all.Given the sheer number of tweets being deleted by Twitter, I am going to request that we follow the Spacebattles rule about tweets and post a text copy of any tweet that get's posted.
1) When the electors vote on it.Hypothetically speaking, what would need to happen in order for you to believe:
1) that Joe Biden will be the next president of the United States?
2) that Joe Biden was legitimately elected the next president of the United States?
3) that there was no election fraud and no significant voter fraud in the 2020 presidential election?
That's not entirely true, I won't get into the rest of this stuff but the "large conspiracies are impossible" argument isn't as air tight as people would like to think. While large organizations have more opportunities for holes you'd be surprised the sort of things you can get done without major notice.The first is what Slate Star Codex calls "the Basic Argument Against Conspiracy Theories". The Basic Argument is just that you can't run an operation that large in secret without anyone noticing.
D. All else being equal, small conspiracies are likelier than big conspiracies. A cult may take over a town without the average person knowing it; it would be more surprising for them to take over a country.
On the conspiracy note, people do realize that basically every intelligence organization and organized criminal group is engaged in "conspiracies" on a daily basis, right?
Every single day plotting.On the conspiracy note, people do realize that basically every intelligence organization and organized criminal group is engaged in "conspiracies" on a daily basis, right?
You've done more work with the response than I'm willing to do, so instead, I'm going to debate your preempt of source suspicion. The 4th estate has proven itself capable of long term lies. The media helped cover up both FDR and Wilson's health problems, for years in FDRs case. They spun the reality on the ground of Vietnam, particularly the Tet Offensive, to pressure the US into leaving. Walter Duranty managed to deceive the entire US media establishment about the Holodomor for years and still has the Pulitzer he won for it. There are simply too many perverse incentives and institutional inertia in the 4th estate to make it in any format trustworthy.
What? No such thing! How dare you accuse us of doing such a thing! The US IC do no such things....On the conspiracy note, people do realize that basically every intelligence organization and organized criminal group is engaged in "conspiracies" on a daily basis, right?
My response would be basically, "Such scandals do occur, but the scandal or conspiracy alleged here is far, far larger than that".
This is not a case of left-leaning papers spinning the news uncharitably. For the fraud argument to be plausible, you don't just need the New York Times to be lying and malicious. You need Fox News to be lying and malicious. You need international media to be lying and malicious. You need obvious Trump allies to be lying and malicious! The international element is important: Benjamin Netanyahu and Recep Tayyip Erdogan, for instance, leaders who have every reason to prefer a Trump victory, have called to congratulate Biden on victory.
You don't just need the Washington Post or whatever to be wrong. You need practically the entire global media to be wrong. Is everyone wrong? Even countries that have every reason to want Trump to win?
For that matter, as noted, you have Republican officials, who themselves have every reason to want Trump to win, saying that there's no significant fraud. You've already seen discussion of Brad Raffensperger, for instance. There are Republican calls to respect the process.
So I think the case for fraud here needs more than just the normal level of left-wing bias from sources like the New York Times or MSNBC. It needs a huge amount of people from all across the global political landscape - including Republicans, including right-wing news channels, including foreign observers, including people with every reason to want Trump to win - to either be lying or deceived. I do not think that's plausible.
My response would be basically, "Such scandals do occur, but the scandal or conspiracy alleged here is far, far larger than that".
This is not a case of left-leaning papers spinning the news uncharitably. For the fraud argument to be plausible, you don't just need the New York Times to be lying and malicious. You need Fox News to be lying and malicious. You need international media to be lying and malicious. You need obvious Trump allies to be lying and malicious! The international element is important: Benjamin Netanyahu and Recep Tayyip Erdogan, for instance, leaders who have every reason to prefer a Trump victory, have called to congratulate Biden on victory.
You don't just need the Washington Post or whatever to be wrong. You need practically the entire global media to be wrong. Is everyone wrong? Even countries that have every reason to want Trump to win?
For that matter, as noted, you have Republican officials, who themselves have every reason to want Trump to win, saying that there's no significant fraud. You've already seen discussion of Brad Raffensperger, for instance. There are Republican calls to respect the process.
So I think the case for fraud here needs more than just the normal level of left-wing bias from sources like the New York Times or MSNBC. It needs a huge amount of people from all across the global political landscape - including Republicans, including right-wing news channels, including foreign observers, including people with every reason to want Trump to win - to either be lying or deceived. I do not think that's plausible.
I dunno about other places but over here the local media will happily parrot what the bigger American news groups say without really bothering to check over it and there's good reason to believe most other countries' news groups will do much the same. It's partly why Europe as a whole has such a negative view of Trump, most of it's information on him comes from American sources which hate his guts and have primed them to distrust pro Trump groups no matter how milquetoast they are. You overestimate the quality and willingness to do actual leg work from most of the "global media".You don't just need the Washington Post or whatever to be wrong. You need practically the entire global media to be wrong. Is everyone wrong? Even countries that have every reason to want Trump to win?
My response would be basically, "Such scandals do occur, but the scandal or conspiracy alleged here is far, far larger than that".
This is not a case of left-leaning papers spinning the news uncharitably. For the fraud argument to be plausible, you don't just need the New York Times to be lying and malicious. You need Fox News to be lying and malicious. You need international media to be lying and malicious. You need obvious Trump allies to be lying and malicious! The international element is important: Benjamin Netanyahu and Recep Tayyip Erdogan, for instance, leaders who have every reason to prefer a Trump victory, have called to congratulate Biden on victory.
You don't just need the Washington Post or whatever to be wrong. You need practically the entire global media to be wrong. Is everyone wrong? Even countries that have every reason to want Trump to win?
For that matter, as noted, you have Republican officials, who themselves have every reason to want Trump to win, saying that there's no significant fraud. You've already seen discussion of Brad Raffensperger, for instance. There are Republican calls to respect the process.
So I think the case for fraud here needs more than just the normal level of left-wing bias from sources like the New York Times or MSNBC. It needs a huge amount of people from all across the global political landscape - including Republicans, including right-wing news channels, including foreign observers, including people with every reason to want Trump to win - to either be lying or deceived. I do not think that's plausible.
My response would be basically, "Such scandals do occur, but the scandal or conspiracy alleged here is far, far larger than that".
This is not a case of left-leaning papers spinning the news uncharitably.
For the fraud argument to be plausible, you don't just need the New York Times to be lying and malicious. You need Fox News to be lying and malicious. You need international media to be lying and malicious.
You need obvious Trump allies to be lying and malicious! The international element is important: Benjamin Netanyahu and Recep Tayyip Erdogan, for instance, leaders who have every reason to prefer a Trump victory, have called to congratulate Biden on victory.
You don't just need the Washington Post or whatever to be wrong. You need practically the entire global media to be wrong. Is everyone wrong? Even countries that have every reason to want Trump to win?
For that matter, as noted, you have Republican officials, who themselves have every reason to want Trump to win, saying that there's no significant fraud. You've already seen discussion of Brad Raffensperger, for instance. There are Republican calls to respect the process.
So I think the case for fraud here needs more than just the normal level of left-wing bias from sources like the New York Times or MSNBC. It needs a huge amount of people from all across the global political landscape - including Republicans, including right-wing news channels, including foreign observers, including people with every reason to want Trump to win - to either be lying or deceived. I do not think that's plausible.
Since he became a serious contender, the media have done nothing but lie and be malicious towards Trump.
If you can honestly look back at the last four years and think they've been in any way, shape or form fair to him, you're positively insane.
All you need is for their natural biases and desires to keep them anti-trump as they will refuse to investigate.
And you don't need them to be lying and malicious. There are many other explanations that neatly explain it as well, such as ignorance, cognitive dissonance, being forced to, genuinely believing something is the fact. Yet you assume it has to be malice and lies, and that it is all a conspiracy theory. What allies of Trump? The ones falsely claimed by the news?
And need I point out that Justin Trudeau of all people is being careful with this? Maybe, he actually understands how dicey the situation is and does not want to make a bad move. And really, those men are obviously playing the odds, if Biden wins he isn't angry at them, and if Trump wins they can play it off. These men are canny political operators.
It does not matter what you think is possible, it matters what is possible. And really, it is clear that you are only bringing all of this up, because you don't want it to be possible. You don't want the truth, because you cannot handle it. It is far too terrible for you to admit, so you rationalize. You create a reality where the truth is falsehood, because that is what is comfortable. There is obvious fraud, yet you try to conjure up reasons why there isn't.
And yet Mitch McConnel, one of the highest ranking Republicans, is giving Trump his support in challenging the results of the election.
The issue is the media held off calling a 98 percent state to trump that is a swing state, went here were no way as many votes as they said were until it was in bidens favor.Oh, the media certainly hate Trump. That was never in question.
But that's not what the question is. The question is not, "Does the media hate Trump?" The question is, "Was there election fraud?"
This is the same media that did not hesitate to call the election for Trump in 2016. Today we are not just talking about left-wing or mainstream media: we're talking about Fox, we're talking about media outlets in every other country, we're talking about Republicans. Pastor Robert Jeffress grants that Biden won, and he is literally the guy behind this. You cite cutting away from a press conference: Fox did that as well, and Fox are pretty darn right-wing.
Here's my contention. This -
- is not enough.
That is not remotely enough to explain it, because as noted agents with every possible reason to be pro-Trump are calling it for Biden, from Erdogan to Jeffress.
See above. The problem is that this reads as, well, the same sort of thing as people earlier saying that Fox and Murdoch are anti-Trump leftists. Anyone who denies that there's a conspiracy is part of the conspiracy.
Justin Trudeau congratulated Biden on his election victory a week ago. Note also that the Conservative Party leader, Erin O'Toole, has also congratulated Biden, so it's not just a matter of the left.
This isn't an argument. This is just yelling, "You can't handle the truth!" at me.
It's not "a few RINOs or deluded fools", SSR. It's practically everyone. Here's the thing: either Trump and his closest allies are lying or deluded (which would be unsurprising and highly in-character for them), or the entire world has been fooled by the largest and most efficient vote-rigging operation in the world which is somehow nonetheless so flimsy that amateurs on Twitter have exposed it (which is ridiculously implausible).
I think the former is more likely than the latter.
This isn't precisely true. McConnell has not endorsed Trump's claims of fraud - what he's done is support Trump having the right to call for an investigation. My reading of McConnell is that he's carefully walking the tightrope: he knows the GOP can't afford to alienate Trump's base right now, so the strategy is to humour Trump, at least in the short term. The closest McConnell has come is saying that, "the president is one hundred percent within his rights to look into allegations of irregularities and weigh his legal options".
Oh, the media certainly hate Trump. That was never in question.
But that's not what the question is. The question is not, "Does the media hate Trump?" The question is, "Was there election fraud?"
This is the same media that did not hesitate to call the election for Trump in 2016. Today we are not just talking about left-wing or mainstream media: we're talking about Fox, we're talking about media outlets in every other country, we're talking about Republicans. Pastor Robert Jeffress grants that Biden won, and he is literally the guy behind this. You cite cutting away from a press conference: Fox did that as well, and Fox are pretty darn right-wing.
Here's my contention. This -
- is not enough.
That is not remotely enough to explain it, because as noted agents with every possible reason to be pro-Trump are calling it for Biden, from Erdogan to Jeffress.
See above. The problem is that this reads as, well, the same sort of thing as people earlier saying that Fox and Murdoch are anti-Trump leftists. Anyone who denies that there's a conspiracy is part of the conspiracy.
Justin Trudeau congratulated Biden on his election victory a week ago. Note also that the Conservative Party leader, Erin O'Toole, has also congratulated Biden, so it's not just a matter of the left.
This isn't an argument. This is just yelling, "You can't handle the truth!" at me.
It's not "a few RINOs or deluded fools", SSR. It's practically everyone. Here's the thing: either Trump and his closest allies are lying or deluded (which would be unsurprising and highly in-character for them), or the entire world has been fooled by the largest and most efficient vote-rigging operation in the world which is somehow nonetheless so flimsy that amateurs on Twitter have exposed it (which is ridiculously implausible).
I think the former is more likely than the latter.
This isn't precisely true. McConnell has not endorsed Trump's claims of fraud - what he's done is support Trump having the right to call for an investigation. My reading of McConnell is that he's carefully walking the tightrope: he knows the GOP can't afford to alienate Trump's base right now, so the strategy is to humour Trump, at least in the short term. The closest McConnell has come is saying that, "the president is one hundred percent within his rights to look into allegations of irregularities and weigh his legal options".
You really do like your ad hominem attacks, huh?Please read the post and the context of the links, and how they prove that tippy has a track record of getting election law and SCOTUS decisions wrong.
They can also be vetoed by Democratic governors, and have their angry populace burn down the state-house before they could vote.People also need to remember one thing. President Trumps target audience is was and remains the State Legislatures that actually pick the Electors. Most of which are Republican. Anyone thinking that those Legislatures that already like Trump are gonna back blatant fraud got another thing coming. They are under no obligation to pick Biden. They can chose Trump very easily.
Sadly Illiteracy is common, Pointing out that somebody holding himself out as a legal expert has been wrong in the past in the opposite of ad-hommein.You really do like your ad hominem attacks, huh?