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Derek Chauvin Trial: summer 2020 electric boogaloo

Captain X

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I for one, predict a LA riots type situation regardless of the outcome.
BLM and Antifa is just going to scream not enough, so they have an excuse to go out and loot again.
Gotta show off a new pair of stolen Jordans every year.
Because it isn't actually about justice and never has been. If it was, the mayor firing this cop right away would have helped. This was just an excuse to give this country its own version of the Cultural Revolution.
 

Cherico

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Because it isn't actually about justice and never has been. If it was, the mayor firing this cop right away would have helped. This was just an excuse to give this country its own version of the Cultural Revolution.

The mask has been coming off for awhile another months long period of rioting after they win this case will hopefully help the slower horses cross the finish line.
 

Zachowon

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And that's irrelevant. Sitting on Floyd's back could have killed him at the time, so putting the full weight on the guy with knee will kill someone in as poor of a condition as Floyd, knee on the neck or no. It makes it harder to breath, was against police protocols, and was judged to be contributing to the death. Now without fentynal, Floyd would have lived. But legally, that doesn't matter. Chauvin contributed to his death, and once that bar is hit, the rest of the picture matters. If he committed a felony, that's felony murder. He clearly showed disregard for human life, so that's murder 3 at a minimum.

Did....
Did you not watch the video?

Steven even said it did not make it harder to breathe. What did, was panic.

Also, it was not against police protocols. Steven even proves it om his video earlier.

You need to read up on the case
 

Abhorsen

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Once again, we seem to be reversing the standard of evidence that our criminal justice system is based on. The criteria for finding someone guilty isn’t that it’s theoretically possible that it could be murder, it’s proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
And that's not difficult here. Chauvin caused the death. I don't see a reasonable way that putting ones body weight on an unconscious man who has no pulse didn't contribute to the death. And then the rest is plain and obvious, other than the felony, but I could see a felony conviction too.

Though as @LordSunhawk says, the prosecution could easily fuck this up.

Did....
Did you not watch the video?

Steven even said it did not make it harder to breathe. What did, was panic.

Also, it was not against police protocols. Steven even proves it om his video earlier.

You need to read up on the case
Once he's unconscious, it is illegal (regardless of protocols), because the man cannot resist and there is a duty of care to an arrested person. Also, a strong person like Crowder not having problems breathing really doesn't apply to what Floyd went through. Crowder also found no problem with waterboarding through his 'test', even though that definitely is torture, as a number of people who experimented with it found, so I don't trust his test controls. Third, stopping the ribs from expanding certainly does affect ones ability to breathe.
 

Zachowon

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And that's not difficult here. Chauvin caused the death. I don't see a reasonable way that putting ones body weight on an unconscious man who has no pulse didn't contribute to the death. And then the rest is plain and obvious, other than the felony, but I could see a felony conviction too.

Though as @LordSunhawk says, the prosecution could easily fuck this up.


Once he's unconscious, it is illegal (regardless of protocols), because the man cannot resist and there is a duty of care to an arrested person. Also, a strong person like Crowder not having problems breathing really doesn't apply to what Floyd went through. Crowder also found no problem with waterboarding through his 'test', even though that definitely is torture, as a number of people who experimented with it found, so I don't trust his test controls. Third, stopping the ribs from expanding certainly does affect ones ability to breathe.
Did...did you watch the video at all?
Because fun fact, he points out that because if the crowd around the officers, they were within regs to keep him like that until EMT get there.

Why does no one watch the videos of his when he debunks? Is it because they don't want the context he uses as well?
 

Abhorsen

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Did...did you watch the video at all?
Because fun fact, he points out that because if the crowd around the officers, they were within regs to keep him like that until EMT get there.

Why does no one watch the videos of his when he debunks? Is it because they don't want the context he uses as well?
No, again, those regs, if they exist, are illegal and don't count for shit. Graham v Connor is controlling here:

Again, it's objectively unreasonable to apply force to an unconscious man. All of the factors listed are a no. Severity of the crime? Not severe. Immediate threat? Once handcuffed barely, once unconscious, no. Resisting arrest? Once unconscious, no.

And I don't listen to Crowder on his physical mythbusting because he has shown himself to be an unreliable source on those.
 

LordSunhawk

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No, again, those regs, if they exist, are illegal and don't count for shit. Graham v Connor is controlling here:

Again, it's objectively unreasonable to apply force to an unconscious man. All of the factors listed are a no. Severity of the crime? Not severe. Immediate threat? Once handcuffed barely, once unconscious, no. Resisting arrest? Once unconscious, no.

And I don't listen to Crowder on his physical mythbusting because he has shown himself to be an unreliable source on those.
Actually all of the use of force experts *brought in by the state* have all testified that it was reasonable to continue to apply force to an unconscious man in the circumstances prevailing. The prosecutions own witnesses have all stated, under oath, that lawful use of force, using the Graham v Connor standard, permitted what was done by Chauvin.

Note that they've done so under cross-examination.

There's a phrase in legal circles. If your case rests on the facts, pound the facts. If it rests on the law, pound the law. If it rests on neither, pound the table. Right now the prosecution is pounding the table.
 

LordSunhawk

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Bear Ribs

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No, again, those regs, if they exist, are illegal and don't count for shit. Graham v Connor is controlling here:

Again, it's objectively unreasonable to apply force to an unconscious man. All of the factors listed are a no. Severity of the crime? Not severe. Immediate threat? Once handcuffed barely, once unconscious, no. Resisting arrest? Once unconscious, no.

And I don't listen to Crowder on his physical mythbusting because he has shown himself to be an unreliable source on those.
Were they certain he was really unconscious? It's not exactly impossible for a suspect to pretend to be unconscious in order to pull a fast one. It's objectively much more unreasonable to assume the officers had a telepathic link to Floyd that would let them tell if he was really unconscious or faking, especially after all the other shenanigans he'd already pulled.
 

DocSolarisReich

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I strongly recommend going to Legal Insurrection and reading their analysis of the case.

So far, it's been *brutal*... for the prosecution. Their own witnesses are making the defenses case for them, to the point where it sometimes seems like the prosecutors are deliberately sandbagging their case.
So, incompetent or evil? Can we rule out that the powers that be want the riots that will follow the innocent verdict? Or is the point to find him guilty despite the deliberately bad case as a flex over middle America?
 

Wargamer08

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Anyone else getting tired of the threat of criminal riots being thrown around as a reason to ignore evidence, innocence until proven guilty and actually having a trial?

At this point who cares if people riot. The places run by reasonable people will shut them down and arrest the short tempered idiots and the places run by cowards get burnt down again. Just like last time, and the time before that.
 

Vaermina

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And that's irrelevant. Sitting on Floyd's back could have killed him at the time, so putting the full weight on the guy with knee will kill someone in as poor of a condition as Floyd, knee on the neck or no. It makes it harder to breath, was against police protocols, and was judged to be contributing to the death. Now without fentynal, Floyd would have lived. But legally, that doesn't matter. Chauvin contributed to his death, and once that bar is hit, the rest of the picture matters. If he committed a felony, that's felony murder. He clearly showed disregard for human life, so that's murder 3 at a minimum.

Intent is only waved for Murder 2 and Murder 3 in Minnesota under some very exacting circumstances.

Depraved Mind Murder in particular, which is the Murder 3 exception to intent you mentioned a couple posts after this, relies on the assumption that there are reckless acts so dangerous that a person should be charged with murder if another person dies while you are engaging in them.

The chokehold in question does not qualify for that exception.
 

Zachowon

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Apparently the autopsy was updated that he DIDNT have as high as levels of drugs in his system.

As said by a doctor says smoking is not bad for you
 

Terthna

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Apparently the autopsy was updated that he DIDNT have as high as levels of drugs in his system.

As said by a doctor says smoking is not bad for you
Wow; the prosecution must really be panicking, if they're willing to attempt something so blatant. Although who knows; maybe it'll work out for them. At the very least there's no downside to trying, because it's not like anyone gives a crap about other people lying anymore.
 

Cherico

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Wow; the prosecution must really be panicking, if they're willing to attempt something so blatant. Although who knows; maybe it'll work out for them. At the very least there's no downside to trying, because it's not like anyone gives a crap about other people lying anymore.
going for murder was a mistake I think they could have easily won a manslaughter case but murder implies intent that is going to be hard to prove was there.
 

Yinko

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The mask has been coming off for awhile another months long period of rioting after they win this case will hopefully help the slower horses cross the finish line.
So... when are we expecting the riots to start up in response to all this, on a national level? Just trying to plan ahead so I don't get caught in something nasty.
 

Zachowon

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Wow; the prosecution must really be panicking, if they're willing to attempt something so blatant. Although who knows; maybe it'll work out for them. At the very least there's no downside to trying, because it's not like anyone gives a crap about other people lying anymore.
Appernetly same guy who said a bunch of BS at OJ case
 

commanderkai

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I fully support people looking at and reading legalinsurrection.com

Fantastic blog, very informative on various issues. He also followed the Zimmerman case very closely, and provided a lot of insights on the law during that trial.
 
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