United States Confederate Statues, symbols, and memorials debate thread

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I have no idea who that is and I don't give a shit, but I can say with absolute certainty that your sort of gamer reactionaries whose entire politics seem to be based around outrage at random internet drama is even more pathetic than the sort of liberals who constantly make Harry Potter analogies. Who the fuck cares that you can't use that word? My lord, somebody has criticized an aspect of my meaningless internet hobby. I must DEFEND THE FANDOM AGAINST THE SJWs!!!!!!!!

Come back to me when you actually manage to develop politics based around shit that actually matters. At least even the craziest reactionaries or fascists or what not realize that what they're doing should concern itself with something more meaningful than an internet fandom.
I actually agree with you here. Fandom “politics” is trivial and generally pointless.

Not that I don’t have strong fandom opinions mind you. But I generally keep that separate from my “serious” politics.

It’s a consequence of corporate culture, brand loyalty, fandom playing a religious role in society, etc... That they become confused and conflated.

And also perhaps it’s a consequence of prosperity.
 

CarlManvers2019

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And also perhaps it’s a consequence of prosperity.
Honestly, I don't think you guys can ever prosper enough or are prospering at all unless your lives were perfect.

All this stuff is just some people grabbing onto stuff to feel like they're doing something great, while they're all dying or probably nearing some financial trouble whether on the individual or societal scale

That society can "prosper too much" is impossible, so long as there are flaws or even some people having a hard time

I don't think ANY era deserves the title "Golden Age"

Any sign of "decadence" or this "prospering too much" are just Upper-Middle-Class to Upper Class types going crazy and not realizing when they'll get themselves and others killed
 
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OliverCromwell

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I actually agree with you here. Fandom “politics” is trivial and generally pointless.

Not that I don’t have strong fandom opinions mind you. But I generally keep that separate from my “serious” politics.

It’s a consequence of corporate culture, brand loyalty, fandom playing a religious role in society, etc... That they become confused and conflated.

And also perhaps it’s a consequence of prosperity.
It isn't the "consequence" of anything, people have been doing this sort of shit since the beginning of culture. It's just that it was just as stupid when the theosophical societies decided to take some random bullshit mysticism a women dredged up way too seriously or when the Italian futurists turned eating uncooked beets played with dissonant music into a brand of fascist politics as it is now. The aestheticisation of politics is more than just bad--it's also really, really stupid. Don't do it.

Granted, it does look a lot more pathetic now that the people who are doing it aren't artists and the artistically inclined, but instead random shut-ins jacking off to their anime waifus. But that's a separate issue that just happens to interact with this one in a particularly toxic way.
 
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It isn't the "consequence" of anything, people have been doing this sort of shit since the beginning of culture. It's just that it was just as stupid when the theosophical societies decided to take some random bullshit mysticism a women dredged up way too seriously or when the Italian futurists turned eating uncooked beets played with dissonant music into a brand of fascist politics as it is now. The aestheticisation of politics is more than just bad--it's also really, really stupid. Don't do it.
I’m referring specifically to YouTube outrage and fandom as it relates to politics.

As for aesthetics and politics-I would say politics has always had an aesthetic component. In both rhetoric and action. In theory and praxis.

It can be dumb, but depending on how you define aesthetics then it’s unavoidable.

Unless of course you mean drab debates over marginal tax policy. Which I’m not sure how you can dress up or make beautiful, or emotionally drawing.

Then again, I might be misunderstanding specifically what you mean. Because aesthetics that is-the idea of beauty or appeal as normally defined has always been apart of political discourse.
 

CarlManvers2019

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Unless of course you mean drab debates over marginal tax policy. Which I’m not sure how you can dress up or make beautiful, or emotionally drawing.
You can, just be emotional about how extra taxes will be used to build a greater tomorrow via direct government usage

Or say lesser taxes, will result in people using their un-taxed money for a variety of projects of their own volition due to deciding that they can make a buck AND help BOTH people and the environment through their private means for a greater tomorrow

Actually having to analyze and debate the numbers themselves are something else
 

Zachowon

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I will read through this tomorrow after I sleep, but being someone raised in the south, in Georgia of all places. We have a lot of confederate things there, I grew up learning they fought the union. I learned various reasons, from slavery to politics. I have been called a apologist for them at times.

With these statues, they are history and should not be taken down. They should stand to remember what happend.

But it does matter where you place it.
You dotn place a statue of Sherman in downtown atlanta....that only leads to riots from everyone.
Georgia was one of the biggest slave states. The whole state still has plantations all around, the buildings not the actual slave ones.
If you teach rhat not all of them fought for slavery, but because they were tired of being forced to live thier lives by the government..
They were Rebels. They had pride. They did what they could to defend their homes.
We should remember them not for being losers of a war for slavery. But those that fought to save thier family and way of life.
 

HistoryMinor

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I have no idea who that is and I don't give a shit, but I can say with absolute certainty that your sort of gamer reactionaries whose entire politics seem to be based around outrage at random internet drama is even more pathetic than the sort of liberals who constantly make Harry Potter analogies. Who the fuck cares that you can't use that word? My lord, somebody has criticized an aspect of my meaningless internet hobby. I must DEFEND THE FANDOM AGAINST THE SJWs!!!!!!!!

Come back to me when you actually manage to develop politics based around shit that actually matters. At least even the craziest reactionaries or fascists or what not realize that what they're doing should concern itself with something more meaningful than an internet fandom.

more like gaymer



Also lol cities in the south are full of black people, how is it that statues put up in the 50s and 60s to protest desegregation and civil rights are okay but putting up statues of union war heroes is bad? Everyone bitching about equality but hating on Sherman proving the superiority of Northern industry and warrior spirit are deluded children
 

Husky_Khan

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I have no idea who that is and I don't give a shit, but I can say with absolute certainty that your sort of gamer reactionaries whose entire politics seem to be based around outrage at random internet drama is even more pathetic than the sort of liberals who constantly make Harry Potter analogies. Who the fuck cares that you can't use that word? My lord, somebody has criticized an aspect of my meaningless internet hobby. I must DEFEND THE FANDOM AGAINST THE SJWs!!!!!!!!

Come back to me when you actually manage to develop politics based around shit that actually matters. At least even the craziest reactionaries or fascists or what not realize that what they're doing should concern itself with something more meaningful than an internet fandom.

Hysterics aside, I think Carl Manvers touched on an important point.

"Who the fuck cares that you can't use that word?"

Language and Speech is kind of important when it comes to the whole... language and speech realm of things. If you're censoring every word that's potentially offensive in various forms of media or in the national discourse then you are helping to manipulate the conversation. Banning certain words or classifying more and more words as slurs (or conversely overusing certain labels to make them essentially vacant and hollow buzzwords) all helps shape the discussion around politics and culture.

In regards to fandoms, certain fandoms are indeed insignificant in the large realm of things but you might be on the wrong board if your whining about people talking about internet fandoms since this is a fandom board located on the internet. :unsure:

And as the famous quote goes "Politics is downstream from culture." What happens in a specific fandom might be a microcosm, but if it's spread about widely (or liberally snigger) then it will influence culture and in turn influence politics (which is apparently the only 'shit' that matters in your humble opinion).
 

Cyan Saiyajin

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I love the disconnect of the typical thinking that we are in dire need of a discussion about "enter some random sub-culture or fandom" and then argue that the defense of said fandom is pointless. It shows how weak the arguments are in the first place when instead of defending said criticisms, they have to make light and insult the people who disagree with them.
 

prinCZess

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I suppose because of years of arguing against this stuff by pointing out in many a internet-slapfight over Confederate monuments that the 'logic' being used to justify statue-removal extended to many others (the Founding Fathers most prominently), I am kind of morally obligated to state that I do, indeed, hold an iota of respect for these idiots at least being consistent in their idiotic, hyper-zealous, cultural revolution, damnatio memoriae bullshit.

That iota of respect is, in case anyone missed the tone of my last sentence, overshadowed by a skyscraper of scorn for the idiocy of this hyper-zealous, cultural revolultion, damnatio memoriae bullshit.
 

Husky_Khan

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Oh FFS Carl, can you not?

Can you just admire the pretty flag that doesn't have racist baggage attached.
GIve it time.

Supporting the erasure of "In God We Trust" seems to have a similar amount of support as other iconoclasm.


That poor state is going to have to redesign their pretty flag sooner or later lol.
 

ShadowArxxy

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Supporting the erasure of "In God We Trust" seems to have a similar amount of support as other iconoclasm.

Considering that the phrase was only added to currency in 1957 as a political stunt, it's really not a big deal one way or the other.
 
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