United States Confederate Statues, symbols, and memorials debate thread

CarlManvers2019

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The South is villainized because it is the one thing standing in the way of Yankee hegemony.

Culturally and otherwise.

A book needs to be written on how all the goddamn social justice movements and activism and SJW shit has its origins in yankee moralizing puritanism. In God damn Ralph Waldo Emerson who also coincidentally hated the South.

Yankee values(which also influenced the west coast by the way combined with the free spirited greed of the prospectors) are the cultural hegemon of America. The South has always stood opposed to this-from the earliest days.
Dude, you still keep missing out on the slavery and KKK.

Also, southern accents
 
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Dude, you still keep missing out on the slavery and KKK.

Also, southern accents
Yes because slavery and some terrorism are uniquely the greatest evil of all time.

Yeah, its a cultural connotation. I have a southern accent. No doubt, people might think badly of me for it.
 

Cherico

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The South is villainized because it is the one thing standing in the way of Yankee hegemony.

Culturally and otherwise.

A book needs to be written on how all the goddamn social justice movements and activism and SJW shit has its origins in yankee moralizing puritanism. In God damn Ralph Waldo Emerson who also coincidentally hated the South.

Yankee values(which also influenced the west coast by the way combined with the free spirited greed of the prospectors) are the cultural hegemon of America. The South has always stood opposed to this-from the earliest days.
In defense of the west, the free spirited greed part of our culture is arguably in my opinion our best feature, its just that when we try to mix it with holier then thou BS it comes off as extra assholish, and um yeah no one buys it not even us.
 

CarlManvers2019

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Yes because slavery and some terrorism are uniquely the greatest evil of all time.

Yeah, its a cultural connotation. I have a southern accent. No doubt, people might think badly of me for it.
Yes it is and people will never forget it, it may as well be your inherited sin EVEN IF you guys were against both today.

Not just badly, but lowly.
 
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Yankee Puritanism combined with the greed and often rapacious and stupid individualism of the prospectors who settled California.

This is why California and the west coast(with names like Salem showing its Puritan heritage), are both degenerate and moralizers in equal measure.

No wonder its the center of both the new age movement, hippies, gay rights, and whatever else came out of the gutter in the sixties.

Yes it is and people will never forget it, it may as well be your inherited sin EVEN IF you guys were against both today.

Not just badly, but lowly.
National narratives, guilt tripping, and reparations money.
 

CarlManvers2019

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Yankee Puritanism combined with the greed and often rapacious and stupid individualism of the prospectors who settled California.

This is why California and the west coast(with names like Salem showing its Puritan heritage), are both degenerate and moralizers in equal measure.

No wonder its the center of both the new age movement, hippies, gay rights, and whatever else came out of the gutter in the sixties.


National narratives, guilt tripping, and reparations money.
I wouldn't call them "individualists" because really, they're just going for whatever thing they can enter to LARP as a rebel


To the point that they'll even shame ya for liking fanservicey super heroines on the basis of "objectification" and somehow oppressing women

Those won't go away until people realise or remember they are not their ancestors

So long as you keep those statues, symbols and memorials....you provide a target....then again going by how obsessed they are with it, they'll look for new ones
 

HistoryMinor

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Late reply, but bolded paragraph is precisely why the Confederate soldier fought.

As a southerner, I do not take kindly to your moral condemnatory ramblings from on high.

The South is...probably the most patriotic and all round most virtuous part of the country. Uninfected by Yankee "activism" and having the best grasp of human nature. That is inherent selfishess, that can only be redeemed via spiritual atonement.

The South is responsible for American expansion, its sons led the country in its first decades. It gave a lot for America and got this shit back.

The North and its moral propagandists as shown above, have always condemned the South neither understanding its peculiarities, or its history, and seeking to stamp out a different civilization.

Much like the old Puritans of New England-morally righteous and insufferable. But someone with an Oliver Cromwell avatar this sort of authoritarian and utterly wretched moralism is to be expected.

The southern Baptist convention split off from the north in order to support slavery, your faith is empty and void. Also lol sure the south is responsible for expansion, it stole Indian Land in Georgia, attacked New Orleans and Florida without provocation and pushed for the annexation of the West specifically to spread the plantation system. You're right about the selfishness though, in a crisis situation I wouldn't trust anyone in the south unless they were directly related to me, and only because they probably want to stay on my good side in a bid to get more chances at fucking my/our sister.



Why do Hicks hate Ralph Waldo Emerson? He was a transcendentalist, not a bar of soap.
 

Cherico

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The southern Baptist convention split off from the north in order to support slavery, your faith is empty and void. Also lol sure the south is responsible for expansion, it stole Indian Land in Georgia, attacked New Orleans and Florida without provocation and pushed for the annexation of the West specifically to spread the plantation system. You're right about the selfishness though, in a crisis situation I wouldn't trust anyone in the south unless they were directly related to me, and only because they probably want to stay on my good side in a bid to get more chances at fucking my/our sister.
If you are a history Minor then you should understand real polic.

America's west had a power vacume, this was partically caused by the great dying caused by the spread of diseases partially caused by the constant infighting between different tribes and partially caused by the tech imbalance. Even with out slavery as a motivation there would have been a push for the annexation of the west and its natural resources.

This same phenomenon of a great powers coming into existance because of a power vacume happened in the case of Russia, helped create modern day china, and the holy roman empire and the expansion of islam into a great power. The Persian empire ect ect.

Expecting any country of people no matter what their proposed values to not take advantage of a power vacume to become stronger is an excersize in futility.
 
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The southern Baptist convention split off from the north in order to support slavery, your faith is empty and void. Also lol sure the south is responsible for expansion, it stole Indian Land in Georgia, attacked New Orleans and Florida without provocation and pushed for the annexation of the West specifically to spread the plantation system. You're right about the selfishness though, in a crisis situation I wouldn't trust anyone in the south unless they were directly related to me, and only because they probably want to stay on my good side in a bid to get more chances at fucking my/our sister.



Why do Hicks hate Ralph Waldo Emerson? He was a transcendentalist, not a bar of soap.
First off, I never stated my faith. And even if I was SBC, your statement is an exercise in the genetic fallacy.

And this is bad...why? Except that conquest is inherently wrong. Which is fine to argue, but please be consistent and say it is bad always.

Virginia was founded as a business venture, the Carolinas became one, and the trans Appalachians were colonized by people wanting land for themselves. So yes, selfishness is inherent in Southern history. I find absolutely nothing wrong with this.

Dude, the incest shit is so lame. Find a better way of demeaning people you know nothing about.

Transcendentalism is crap.
 

HistoryMinor

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If you are a history Minor then you should understand real polic.

America's west had a power vacume, this was partically caused by the great dying caused by the spread of diseases partially caused by the constant infighting between different tribes and partially caused by the tech imbalance. Even with out slavery as a motivation there would have been a push for the annexation of the west and its natural resources.

This same phenomenon of a great powers coming into existance because of a power vacume happened in the case of Russia, helped create modern day china, and the holy roman empire and the expansion of islam into a great power. The Persian empire ect ect.

Expecting any country of people no matter what their proposed values to not take advantage of a power vacume to become stronger is an excersize in futility.
I'm talking about the trail of years, not Comanche. Andrew Jackson literally betrayed the civilized tribes and spat in the face of the supreme Court just to give 3% of the land to pig farmers and the other 97% to oligarchs. If the civilized tribes survived they would have organically been absorbed into the union and likely would have integrated the Seminoles without violence.

First off, I never stated my faith. And even if I was SBC, your statement is an exercise in the genetic fallacy.

And this is bad...why? Except that conquest is inherently wrong. Which is fine to argue, but please be consistent and say it is bad always.

Virginia was founded as a business venture, the Carolinas became one, and the trans Appalachians were colonized by people wanting land for themselves. So yes, selfishness is inherent in Southern history. I find absolutely nothing wrong with this.

Dude, the incest shit is so lame. Find a better way of demeaning people you know nothing about.

Transcendentalism is crap.
I'm interested in your niche hate for 19th century poetry and literature. Ayn Rand with bumpkin cousin fucker characteristics seems like an intriguing ideology.
 
D

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I'm talking about the trail of years, not Comanche. Andrew Jackson literally betrayed the civilized tribes and spat in the face of the supreme Court just to give 3% of the land to pig farmers and the other 97% to oligarchs. If the civilized tribes survived they would have organically been absorbed into the union and likely would have integrated the Seminoles without violence.



I'm interested in your niche hate for 19th century poetry and literature. Ayn Rand with bumpkin cousin fucker characteristics seems like an intriguing ideology.
Was having to suffer through it at school not enough?

And I’m not a Randian. Whatever the fuck Objectivism gets caricatured to mean these days.

As for cousin fucking, it’s not common practice. And it wasn’t except for parts of Appalachia-you know where there weren’t that many people outside of extended kin and marrying within your group was the only thing possible.

What happened to the Cherokee was a great tragedy. And I have a touch of Cherokee ancestry myself. But it was going to be bad regardless.

The Indians were always going to lose.
 

Cherico

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I'm talking about the trail of years, not Comanche. Andrew Jackson literally betrayed the civilized tribes and spat in the face of the supreme Court just to give 3% of the land to pig farmers and the other 97% to oligarchs. If the civilized tribes survived they would have organically been absorbed into the union and likely would have integrated the Seminoles without violence.



I'm interested in your niche hate for 19th century poetry and literature. Ayn Rand with bumpkin cousin fucker characteristics seems like an intriguing ideology.

Andrew Jackson was an asshole, I will give you that, but no matter what happened the power vacume in the west was going to be filled, and that process is always bloody. You have similar stories with Russian history, Brazilian history, Chile, mexico, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland ( the English did messed up shit there) And numerous other countries.

In fact I don't know of any country that doesn't have a history of shitty behavior.


I think the biggest difference between me and you is that you compare the US to some perfect utopia that has never existed and will never exist I compare it to other countries and think, meh pretty much every ones been an asshole at some point.
 
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Reading throughout this thread, I find @OliverCromwell and his posts offensive in the extreme. This sort of arrogant self asserted superiority of virtue, and unvarnished desire to impose one’s wretched and ugly worldview on others is exactly why southerners hate the north.

Like, it’s the most un self aware imperialist I have ever encountered. Sherman civilizing. Wow. I guess I can say Fallujah, Cortez, and the Berlin conference were civilizing missions too?

The south is constantly villainized, and modern history with its “south bad” narrative is...as wretched as it’s proponents.

Yankee culture is based on both a busy body and relentlessly restless foundation. Due to its Puritanical roots.

What he sees, as “indolence” should he understood as simply a laid back and relaxed life.

As for equality-if America is based on the notion of human equality then America is based on a lie.

Because it is a lie. Human inequality is the natural and inevitable state of both nature and civilization.

The south was a different civilization based on love of land, a quiet relaxation and a willingness to accept things as natural and not to struggle against the goads.
 

OliverCromwell

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Reading throughout this thread, I find @OliverCromwell and his posts offensive in the extreme. This sort of arrogant self asserted superiority of virtue, and unvarnished desire to impose one’s wretched and ugly worldview on others is exactly why southerners hate the north.

Like, it’s the most un self aware imperialist I have ever encountered. Sherman civilizing. Wow. I guess I can say Fallujah, Cortez, and the Berlin conference were civilizing missions too?

The south is constantly villainized, and modern history with its “south bad” narrative is...as wretched as it’s proponents.

Yankee culture is based on both a busy body and relentlessly restless foundation. Due to its Puritanical roots.

What he sees, as “indolence” should he understood as simply a laid back and relaxed life.

As for equality-if America is based on the notion of human equality then America is based on a lie.

Because it is a lie. Human inequality is the natural and inevitable state of both nature and civilization.

The south was a different civilization based on love of land, a quiet relaxation and a willingness to accept things as natural and not to struggle against the goads.
Dude, this is a troll account (or at least it was until I chased TNoL back here because I never got a chance to respond to his stupidity elsewhere). I created it to make fun of at how butthurt conservatives who love to defend ethnic chauvinism get when ethnic chauvinism about the same issues (work ethic, lack of religiousity, inability to understand the modern western notion of liberty, etc.) is directed at them. Your reaction here is proving my point.

You have every right to be mad about that shit that I posted! It was meant to be incredibly offensive, I don't actually believe this shit lol (go a couple of posts up in my post history and you'll find a long post complaining about how America's sacred WASP soil was ravaged by the Irish, which I dearly hope everyone understands is dumb as fuck). Criticizing people for being indolent, lawless, and uncivilized is, in fact, an incredibly shitty thing to do. But think about how it is that comments like this make you feel and react when you consider how it is that you yourself want to discuss other cultures and their compatibility with civilization and western values or so forth, and how you want to react when you see other people saying similarly insulting things to others. I hope you're willing to apply your standards of offense to people other than yourself--in which case a quick glance at this forum should indicate that there's quite a lot to be offended by.
 
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CarlManvers2019

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@Lord Invictus
if there's any comfort, I doubt we'll be forgetting stuff like this pretty soon


So, yeah, there maybe whole lots of stuff to throw at you guys, but future media will probably like to remember this too. if they can remember you extremely negatively for your past, they can remember others for similar
 

OliverCromwell

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I wouldn't call them "individualists" because really, they're just going for whatever thing they can enter to LARP as a rebel


To the point that they'll even shame ya for liking fanservicey super heroines on the basis of "objectification" and somehow oppressing women

Those won't go away until people realise or remember they are not their ancestors

So long as you keep those statues, symbols and memorials....you provide a target....then again going by how obsessed they are with it, they'll look for new ones
I dearly hope that you're aware that Ted Kaczynski is, to put it delicately, best known for other work. That being said, a Kacyznskian take on the objectification of women in comic books certainly is a novel one, and it is rather amusing to see even if I suspect it's exactly the sort of consumerism that Kaczynski would have appreciated enough to respond to by mail
 

OliverCromwell

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The only things I need to know, is how Jessica Yaniv will win
OK, so, you do realize that your sort of vapid politics driven entirely by artificial clickbait outrage and random pop culture and fandom shit you're taking far too seriously is exactly the sort of thing that Kaczynski thought was so bad about civilization that he started mailing bombs to other people, right? The fact that somebody here has managed to build an entire set of politics around Captain Marvel's costume not showing enough boob is probably the best argument for Kaczynski and the anticivs that I've ever seen in my life. The lack of self-awareness here is astounding
 

CarlManvers2019

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OK, so, you do realize that your sort of vapid politics driven entirely by artificial clickbait outrage and random pop culture and fandom shit you're taking far too seriously is exactly the sort of thing that Kaczynski thought was so bad about civilization that he started mailing bombs to other people, right? The fact that somebody here has managed to build an entire set of politics around Captain Marvel's costume not showing enough boob is probably the best argument for Kaczynski and the anticivs that I've ever seen in my life.
So Desmond isn't Amazing? Well, obviously anime Traps are way better, oh wait we can't use that term
 

OliverCromwell

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So Desmond isn't Amazing? Well, obviously anime Traps are way better, oh wait we can't use that term
I have no idea who that is and I don't give a shit, but I can say with absolute certainty that your sort of gamer reactionaries whose entire politics seem to be based around outrage at random internet drama is even more pathetic than the sort of liberals who constantly make Harry Potter analogies. Who the fuck cares that you can't use that word? My lord, somebody has criticized an aspect of my meaningless internet hobby. I must DEFEND THE FANDOM AGAINST THE SJWs!!!!!!!!

Come back to me when you actually manage to develop politics based around shit that actually matters. At least even the craziest reactionaries or fascists or what not realize that what they're doing should concern itself with something more meaningful than an internet fandom.
 
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