Confederate Flags banned in the Military

[Free-Stater 101]

Seriously, mark my words. When all the confederate statues are gone, they will start hankering to tear down all the other statues and monuments and people like @Bacle will agree.

The founders unlike the confederate statues are harder to touch as even the centrist dems see their removal as lunacy truthfully if this was a battle over them it would be easier on us as unlike with confederate statues people aren't as shy as defending them.

 

[LifeisTiresome]

The founders unlike the confederate statues are harder to touch as even the centrist dems see their removal as lunacy truthfully if this was a battle over them it would be easier on us as unlike with confederate statues people aren't as shy as defending them.

They did nothing while BLM and Antifa ran amock last I checked. They will tear down the founders. Thats what leftists do. They tear something down and then move on to the next target to tear it down also.

 

[OrigaDiscordia]

The founders unlike the confederate statues are harder to touch as even the centrist dems see their removal as lunacy truthfully if this was a battle over them it would be easier on us as unlike with confederate statues people aren't as shy as defending them.

And yet no one is defending them. They've already taken down multiple statues of the founders, Grant, etc. America honestly deserves a communist take over.

I just fear it will be impossible to run and that with full control of the US military the left can and will do horrible things to Europe because lol racism.

 

[Bacle]

And yet no one is defending them. They've already taken down multiple statues of the founders, Grant, etc. America honestly deserves a communist take over.

I just fear it will be impossible to run and that with full control of the US military the left can and will do horrible things to Europe because lol racism.

"No one is defending the Founders."

You ignore Barr and the Feds declaring open season on people who vandalism monuments on Federal property. You are ignoring the militias and groups that have formed specifically to protect monuments. You are ignoring that a 'tanks in the streets' type crack down over those statues would be playing right into the Dems hands.

Trump is taking measured, precise steps to deal with this, and that is something you should be thankful for.

 

[Husky_Khan]

The founders unlike the confederate statues are harder to touch as even the centrist dems see their removal as lunacy truthfully if this was a battle over them it would be easier on us as unlike with confederate statues people aren't as shy as defending them.

Except they're not really harder to touch? I mean the widespread vandalism aside hasn't exactly created an upswell of outrage from these "Centrists" that Bacle is hoping he can court. Trump has literally passed Criminal Justice Reform in a bipartisan manner and 90% of the cities torn apart by riots have been led by Democrats for decades, but AFAIK that hasn't damaged the Democratic base at all. Maybe there's data suggesting otherwise?

I mean their mantra to change everything is still 'Vote' despite the fact they are already in power in most of these police abuse rampant cities.

Plus I could probably google a dozen articles of where monuments to non-Confederates are being torn down and two dozen articles of non-Confederate buildings or whatever being renamed because the names themselves are of problematic Founding Fathers or "imperialists" or conquistadors, or just potentially behaved in a manner that wasn't atypical at the time but would be considered racist or misogynists or prejudiced nowadays.

A) Going after actual Confederate burials, not simply monuments; I draw a big fucking line at disturbing war graves.
B) Physically assaulting people for what they say, even if I despise what is said.
C) Attempting to destroy or invalidate the 2nd Amendment.
D) Supporting illegal immigration (Did you seriously forget what I expereinced on SB with relation to that?)
E) Supporting Planned Parenthood; Sanger was a racist and PP has killed millions of minorities.
F) Defunding cops; this is plain stupid.
G) Supporting H1-B applicants over American workers.
H) Supporting or idolizing Marx or Lenin

Oh good, so there are no lines in the sand in regards to iconoclasm beyond kicking over gravestones. Good to know. It would've been much simpler to just ignore you and your nonsense if you had said that in the first place.

"No one is defending the Founders."

You ignore Barr and the Feds declaring open season on people who vandalism monuments on Federal property. You are ignoring the militias and groups that have formed specifically to protect monuments. You are ignoring that a 'tanks in the streets' type crack down over those statues would be playing right into the Dems hands.

Trump is taking measured, precise steps to deal with this, and that is something you should be thankful for.

Will you stop making stuff up? Who said 'tanks in the streets' to defend Confederate statuary?

And open season on people who commit vandalism on momuments? Trump's Twitter bravado aside, those laws have been on the books for a while. He just reposted the meanest sounding guidelines and did an e-growl. Plus, when it comes to placating "Centrists" I think the fact Trump still exists as a President is far more polarizing then a billion Confederate statues and flags would be in empowering the GOP adversaries.

 

[OrigaDiscordia]

"No one is defending the Founders."

You ignore Barr and the Feds declaring open season on people who vandalism monuments on Federal property. You are ignoring the militias and groups that have formed specifically to protect monuments. You are ignoring that a 'tanks in the streets' type crack down over those statues would be playing right into the Dems hands.

Trump is taking measured, precise steps to deal with this, and that is something you should be thankful for.

They are censoring people across the net and they have been doing so for years. People keep begging Trump and the republicans to do something about Big Tech but every time they just hold a senate hearing and give them a slap on the wrists. And again this has been going on for years. They let the left control the narrative constantly.

Trump is doing jackshit to stop this crap. All he does is make a tweet saying he is going to outlaw something that is already legally a law - and then NEVER does it. Then retweets himself saying 'So True!'. Or tweets 'Law and Order' constantly over and over.

Republicans shouldn't have to fear top Republicans constantly throwing them under a bus when they make militias to go defend their country. Or not doing a thing when the dems arrest them and put them before a kangaroo court. There is a reason all these statues are going down. We all know the republicans won't protect their own like the left does when they let people out of jail despite them openly burning and looting for weeks on end.

Freedom of speech at this point is basically anything that isn't approved by democrats is basically hate speech. The constitution has been raped to death.

The cult of Trump is insane. I don't want a dem in but holy shit. We voted for a strong leader and what we got was a President that lets twitter bully and censor him. It's pathetic. He was supposed to bully twitter. Not the other way around. The entire senate constantly ignores him. Yet somehow the left still thinks he is literally Hitler. I get why they despise him. He is a weak man.

You can't vote your way out of this.

 

[LordsFire]

You can't vote your way out of this.

You seem to think that government moves at the same speed as social media news cycles, or something close to it. That's not how things work; the government is a large bureaucratic institution that is slow to start, slow to maneuver, and slow to stop once it gets going.

You're also forgetting that politicians are overwhelmingly of an older generation that does not see social media and internet censorship as readily as most of us here do, nor think it's as big a deal.

Yes, the awakening to the scope and severity of the issue has been a lot slower than is ideal. It's an issue that basically didn't exist five years ago though, and that the government is reacting at all so 'quickly' is a positive sign.

I am worried that nothing will result from the government beginning to actually respond, and if in, say, 18 months, they still haven't done anything serious, then I'll be worried. Do remember that the Dems are actively making things difficult for Reps to accomplish.

Trump isn't weak, he's limited in power, time, and attention. That he's gotten as much as he has done shows that he has some strength to him; I would like to see him do more, but there are limits on the power of the presidency, and he can't do literally everything at once.

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

The Confederacy is not my history, not my icons, and aren't icons of the United States either.

When they go after non-Confederate items and artifacts, people cross a line.

Ding, ding, ding. They aren't yours, so you are willing to sell them out. You are willing to destroy things other people treasure to appease bad actors. What does it say about you?

No, when they target any such thing they have crossed a line.

But there is growing bipartisan consensus that Confederate symbols and such belong in museums, not in public or in government, regardless of the current protests. Nikki Haley did the right thing when she removed the Confederate flag from the State House in NC, this is just a larger expression of that same sentiment.

Consensus, you mean sellouts and ideologues. They can get fucked, engaging in this iconoclasm is wrong no matter what the talking heads say.

It's actually because of people like Invictus and hyperspacewizard that it has taken so long to do what should have been done right after the Civil Rights Act was passed. The ghosts of the Confederacy should have been snuffed out then, and Southern Pride moved on to other parts of their society that are actually worth being proud over.
If I thought it was realistic to rehabilitate them and get them to realize they are wrong, I'd agree.

Violating the civil rights of the south, telling them what they can and cannot prize? Telling them that they shouldn't have the right to determine their own identity? Sounds like you want to control other people, and are an authoritarian at heart.

However, it is a rare person who can pull off moderating those types, and I'm not convinced that many could be moderated.

Better than letting them fester and get more extreme. And better than actively encouraging them as the left does.

I prefer to help people instead of cast them out, but I'm not terribly concerned about saving those types. I'd rather empower and help environmental ands fiscal conservatives, rather than try to rescue racists and ethno-nationalists from themselves.

Then if you don't want to empower them, why are you giving those on the left exactly what they want? Or is it that it is only bad if the right does it? The same people who want to pull down Confederate statues want to pull down the founding fathers. One leads to another, and I lack any sympathy for you now, you are willing to sell others out, but cry when your time comes.

 

[OrigaDiscordia]

You seem to think that government moves at the same speed as social media news cycles, or something close to it. That's not how things work; the government is a large bureaucratic institution that is slow to start, slow to maneuver, and slow to stop once it gets going.

You're also forgetting that politicians are overwhelmingly of an older generation that does not see social media and internet censorship as readily as most of us here do, nor think it's as big a deal.

Yes, the awakening to the scope and severity of the issue has been a lot slower than is ideal. It's an issue that basically didn't exist five years ago though, and that the government is reacting at all so 'quickly' is a positive sign.

I am worried that nothing will result from the government beginning to actually respond, and if in, say, 18 months, they still haven't done anything serious, then I'll be worried. Do remember that the Dems are actively making things difficult for Reps to accomplish.

Trump isn't weak, he's limited in power, time, and attention. That he's gotten as much as he has done shows that he has some strength to him; I would like to see him do more, but there are limits on the power of the presidency, and he can't do literally everything at once.

I'm not forgetting any of this. I just think they are poor excuses and I'm sick of hearing them. Do your jobs or fuck off and die so we can replace you with younger more active leaders. People were calling for media and big tech reform years ago. Still nothing - and these people have advisors who are young too who write most of their legislation. Why haven't any of them gotten the older generation to do anything other than write tax cuts & bail outs for the rich and trying to start stupid wars with Iran?

Obama just made tons of executive orders and got everything done that way. Yes the democrats block Trump every step of the way and constantly call him a racist/nazi/cheeto etc. Obama didn't let the Republicans stop him from issuing executive orders.
Trump can't be arsed to do the same. Republicans wouldn't support the bills either because they are desperately trying to get like 9% of the black vote instead of 7%.

Twitter/Reddit and the MSM are the new justice system of the United States of America that leans incredibly communist and the Repubs did nothing to stop it. We've had white flight for years along with constant appeasement and it has changed nothing. Appeasement never works. You just embolden the enemy.

What we need to you all is still more appeasement and more white flight. It never fucking ends and we've complained about this for years and yet you all still go on about appeasement as if we still have yet to even try it. And I'm just utterly sick of the sanctimonious holier than thou tone.

 

[Bacle]

Ding, ding, ding. They aren't yours, so you are willing to sell them out. You are willing to destroy things other people treasure to appease bad actors. What does it say about you?

No, when they target any such thing they have crossed a line.



Consensus, you mean sellouts and ideologues. They can get fucked, engaging in this iconoclasm is wrong no matter what the talking heads say.



Violating the civil rights of the south, telling them what they can and cannot prize? Telling them that they shouldn't have the right to determine their own identity? Sounds like you want to control other people, and are an authoritarian at heart.



Better than letting them fester and get more extreme. And better than actively encouraging them as the left does.



Then if you don't want to empower them, why are you giving those on the left exactly what they want? Or is it that it is only bad if the right does it? The same people who want to pull down Confederate statues want to pull down the founding fathers. One leads to another, and I lack any sympathy for you now, you are willing to sell others out, but cry when your time comes.

I know there will be no mercy for me from the Left, and am trying to help the Right fight smarter.

Yet all I get for trying to keep you all from wasting energy on fruitless fights, and help get more moderates on side, is more hate and insults.

And you all wonder why the Left keeps outplaying you.

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

I know there will be no mercy for me from the Left, and am trying to help the Right fight smarter.

Yet all I get for trying to keep you all from wasting energy on fruitless fights, and help get more moderates on side, is more hate and insults.

And you all wonder why the Left keeps outplaying you.

Folding to their whims is not fighting smart, it is a losing strategy. It is also cowardly and immoral. If you know they will not show mercy, then you know why you shouldn't fold and shouldn't give into their madness. Giving up a sacrificial victim is only going to embolden their blood-thirst.

The best way to win moderates is to allow the left to get riled up and show their true face. I think you should actually look at what you are saying.

The left keeps on outplaying us, because we are constantly folding and not fighting. And because they have seized control of the narrative to a large extent, which is in part because we didn't fight back.

 

[Terthna]

Given the South's social outlook and attitude toward slavery, it would have survived into the 20th Century in all likelihood, if perhaps in modified form. It was not going to go out quietly. Hell, it didn't even go out quietly in New York in the early 19th Century. The only thing I can think of that might seen it crumble more rapidly is the mass wearing out of soil across the then-Southwestern cotton-growing section (Mississippi, Alabama, southeastern Arkansas, Louisiana, bits of Tennessee) causing an economic collapse and leading to millions of slaves being made surplus to labor requirements. And even that's not a guarantee of willing abolition from a people who insisted slavery was "the Domestic Institution" and a necessity for free republicanism.

I disagree; I think slavery would have died out in a sovereign south on a similar time frame. Well, either that, or they'd be a third-world nation now.

The Southerners themselves said they seceded to preserve slavery and the racial order it maintained. They said it in their journals. In their speeches. In their secession decrees. They saw Lincoln's election as a threat to that order even though Lincoln himself avowed he would never use federal power against the institution where it stood, only to prevent it from expanding its territory and power at the expense of the rights of the North (see: Bleeding Kansas, and widespread electoral fraud and political violence by Missouri slave-owners therein. Also see: The Fugitive Slave Act of 1850, the greatest imposition of federal power over state power in the antebellum era, allowing federally-supported slave hunters to force Northern citizens into Southern-style slave-hunting posses on threat of harsh fines while overruling the rights of Northern citizens to habeas corpus and a fair hearing in court).

That they did. But again, the question remains; why did they feel either was being threatened?

.....

Do.... do you really believe that bolded part?

Are you trying to sound ridiculous or trying to make me laugh to death?

The South had the disproportionate influence over the federal government up to this very point! Most of the Presidents were Southerners! (Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Jackson, Harrison, Tyler, Polk, and Taylor.) And of the Northern Presidents, of which there were six, over half were elected with strong Southerner backing (Clay helped Adams, the only Northern candidate in 1824, win in the House; Martin Van Buren was the hand-picked successor of Southerner Andrew Jackson; Franklin Pierce and James Buchanan were selected with the support of Southern politicians, since the Democratic Party at the time had instituted a pro-South requirement of two-thirds voting in the convention to win the nomination, ensuring any candidate had to have Southern backing).

How about the SCOTUS? Washington's initial six were balanced - three from each section (and honestly at this time the sections were more nebulous, and arguably made up of three, not two) - while the 28 justices nominated afterward up to Lincoln's nominations (as in counting Buchanan's as the last) saw a split of 12 North, 16 South. Yup. The North certainly dominated the Federal Government there.

The history of American politics up until the 1850s is one of the South wielding disproportionate influence, particularly through the Democratic Party after Jackson since it was usually the majority party in the country and the South had a wide base of support for it. IOW, they could persuade and even eventually coerce Northern Democrats to give them pro-slavery votes in exchange for continued party unity and support on other measures. Hence the years of the infamous gag rules that forbade slavery (mostly anti-slavery) petitions to the House (a violation of a cherished civil right), the shenanigans over the annexation of Texas, the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850 as part of the "Compromise of 1850", and the Kansas-Nebraska Act. The latter helped put a final end to it since a large majority of the Northern Democrats who voted for the act were thrown out of Congress in the following election, meaning that as a group they became hardened to Southern demands and would eventually refuse to the point that Southern Democrats split the party in 1860 over Stephen Douglas' refusal to support a federal territorial slave code (and thus turn against his own Popular Sovereignty position). Northern Democrats rightly feared that if they submitted to putting even a possible territorial slave code on the plank, the Republicans would demolish them, but William L. Yancey of Alabama maneuvered the Southern delegations into making it a requirement for them to remain at the convention. We all know how that went...

All true, and yet does any of that matter from the south's perspective? If anything, it just made Lincoln wining the electing seem even more devastating, and convinced them that afterwards there was nothing left for them in the Union. I'm not saying their position wasn't self-serving, I'm just trying to explain what it was, in my understanding.

Yes. They fought to save the Union, and ultimately freed the slaves to fulfill that goal. They were not shining paladins on white horses. This doesn't change the Southern motivations or the truth of what happened.

It does not; but I think you're focusing too much on their surface justifications, and not the thought process behind them.

It would be silly to declare you a racist over this. Ignorant, sure. It doesn't make you racist. Nice attempt to play yourself as the noble martyr standing for the truth against unkind words, though.

Not a martyr; I just have experience in what happens when I voice my opinion on the Civil War. It usually involves far more death threats.

There were plenty of reasons Northerners became more abolitionist over time. Most of them had to do with the "aggressive defensiveness" that Southern politicians started pushing (due to the purity spiral of their own internal politics, in part), which made slavery (and the "Slave Power") look more and more like a threat to the civil rights of Northerners as well as a possible moral ill.

True, a big part of the support for abolitionism likely came from the fact that south was against it, considering the antagonism between them and the north in the years leading up to the Civil War.

Except slavery helped to distort their priorities on economic development. There were nascent efforts to begin industry in the South, but Southerner planters distrusted banks and other accoutrements of capitalism-fueled development. The cotton boom of the 1850s fueled even more focus on exportation of those raw goods, as cotton literally became "white gold", causing even more Southern capital to be tied down in land and slaves in the effort to export even more cotton.

It's not unlike petro-states today, in fact, just that the South overestimated their ability to wield the economic weapon. As their attempted self-imposed cotton embargo on Britain and France in 1861 proved, to their detriment. They thought "Even Queen Victoria must bow to King Cotton", but as it turned out, no, she didn't.

A lot of comparisons can be made I feel between the third-world nations of today that rely entirely on the export of a small number of lucrative raw goods, and the pre-Civil War south.

Given that a successful secession of the slave-owning states would've pushed back effective abolition until the 20th Century, most likely, one can't blame him for the pragmatism (and yet the more radical abolitionists did). Or as Lincoln himself put it, "I would like to have God on my side, but I must have Kentucky."

Again, I don't think abolition would have been pushed back all that much; the realities of industrialization would have driven the south into bankruptcy, if they refused to abandon slavery.

Again, that's ridiculous, and we even have actual quotes of their immediate reactions, and that included an initial majority of "wait and see". But then South Carolina actually dared to rush to the matter, and they pushed an aggressive secession agenda that created a snowball effect through the South. I highly recommend Professor William Freehling's "The Road to Disunion", as he spends several chapters covering the way the South rushed to secession after South Carolina created the impetus.

What they feared wasn't the entire Federal government under Northern control, it was the patronage Lincoln would control. Under the Jacksonian spoils system he was expected to fill federal posts across the Union with Republicans, or individuals willing to support Republican policies. Secessionists fueled fears that, despite his statements on appointing non-Republicans in areas where his party had yet to gain traction, he would use said patronage to build a Southern branch of the party that would bring anti-slavery debates into Southern political life. This was what they feared more than anything: not Lincoln abusing power to break slavery, but Lincoln's patronage powers promoting *gasp* democratic discourse in Southern society.

You're not wrong, but that's not really an argument against my point I feel (which was that the south felt like they were losing power within the Union); merely an elaboration on the circumstances of the time.

Tough shit, because if you all want to retain any political power, you need people in the center like me and others who don't care if we offend Southern Pride or Lost Cause sensibilities.

You act as if those of us in the center (or left of center) march in lockstep; when personally I'm vehemently against the things you're pushing for, when it comes to "offending Southern Pride or Lost Cause sensibilities". Though that's not to say I'm defending them either, merely the historical and education value of keeping such things in the public eye. Excepting the situation that started this thread of course; I don't see how any flag other than that of the United States should be found in one of our bases.

 

[Bacle]

You act as if those of us in the center (or left of center) march in lockstep; when personally I'm vehemently against the things you're pushing for, when it comes to "offending Southern Pride or Lost Cause sensibilities". Though that's not to say I'm defending them either, merely the historical and education value of keeping such things in the public eye. Excepting the situation that started this thread of course; I don't see how any flag other than that of the United States should be found in one of our bases.

Keeping them in the public eye, to serve education and historical purposes, is a more justifiable reason to protect them in place than what most are saying.

Most are not arguing to keep them in public for those reasons, however.

I personally do not feel that putting them in a museum, or museums, dedicated to the Civil War/Recontruction significantly diminishes thier educational and historical value.

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

Keeping them in the public eye, to serve education and historical purposes, is a more justifiable reason to protect them in place than what most are saying.

Most are not arguing to keep them in public for those reasons, however.

I personally do not feel that putting them in a museum, or museums, dedicated to the Civil War/Recontruction significantly diminishes thier educational and historical value.

It does, you are shunting them away somewhere out of sight and out of mind where they can be forgotten, and then conveniently misplaced and sent to a landfill.

 

[hyperspacewizard]

They don’t want them in a museum they want them gone forever. They removed Roosevelt they’ll be exactly like isis and go into the museums and take sledgehammers to history and culture. These people think whites created slavery and are rewritting history. Also if it’s not your culture it’s not your mythology it’s not your religion maybe stop telling me I’m evil for having these beliefs. Shoot I’m not Christian but there’s talks from these people to go into churches and destroy statues and stained glass windows. They don’t ever stop. Watch soon people in the military won’t be able to have crosses or any other symbol of a religion. This is exactly the first the came for the Jews and I didn’t care because I wasn’t a Jew then the came for the etc etc we all know the parable. The left in America want to destroy the four olds

 

[Zachowon]

That's their problem, and more and more of the country is fed up with humoring them on the issue.

The South better find a way to define themselves another way, because if they cling to that Confederate flag they will lose more and more support in the center in other parts of the US.

My family fought against the Confederacy as spies for the Union, so I have no problem crushing pride in the Confederacy for the good of the nation.
I get veneration of the Confederate flag as a short hand for 'fuck the libs', as local hertiage issue, and that it has a lot of history tied to it beyond the Civil War.

What I'm saying is, that most of that does not matter in modern political discourse, because a lot of the rest of the country isn't scared to offend Lost Cause sensibilities when it comes to Confederate symbols anymore.

My family is from the North, we dont see the flag as racist. We see it as another flag the people of the south enjoy waving around.

S lot of people in the north that dont watch leftist media sont think the Confederate flag means what the left wants it too.

I think the swastika was an eastern religious symbol hijacked by the Nazi's, as were Norse symbols.

That's a thorny issue, and I can see arguments both ways on those symbols because they were hijacked.

The Confederate flag was never hijacked, it still stands for the same thing it did initially, at least to the majority of the country.
If you think my rhetoric is 'divisive' because it doesn't humor the Lost Cause mythology, you are the problem, not my rhetoric.

Also, this is American rhetoric, not 'Yankee' rhetoric.

The Confederate flags stands for racist slave owners wanting to succeed from the country still? Huh wierd Why do the south have the highest enlistment rate for the military? Have the best outlook on constitutional rights? Have the best first and second amendment rights going on?
Oh that's right because they worship slave owning and succeeding from the US..

They don’t want them in a museum they want them gone forever. They removed Roosevelt they’ll be exactly like isis and go into the museums and take sledgehammers to history and culture. These people think whites created slavery and are rewritting history. Also if it’s not your culture it’s not your mythology it’s not your religion maybe stop telling me I’m evil for having these beliefs. Shoot I’m not Christian but there’s talks from these people to go into churches and destroy statues and stained glass windows. They don’t ever stop. Watch soon people in the military won’t be able to have crosses or any other symbol of a religion. This is exactly the first the came for the Jews and I didn’t care because I wasn’t a Jew then the came for the etc etc we all know the parable. The left in America want to destroy the four olds

The Military drives a hard line at getting rid of religion. The DoD could be sued and lose if such a thing were to happen.

Dont hoke about the military losing freedom of religion. That shit is serious here.

 

[Bacle]

My family is from the North, we dont see the flag as racist. We see it as another flag the people of the south enjoy waving around.

S lot of people in the north that dont watch leftist media sont think the Confederate flag means what the left wants it too.

The Confederate flags stands for racist slave owners wanting to succeed from the country still? Huh wierd Why do the south have the highest enlistment rate for the military? Have the best outlook on constitutional rights? Have the best first and second amendment rights going on?
Oh that's right because they worship slave owning and succeeding from the US.

Their current patriotism and love of the Constitution is not in question, I want to make that clear.

But that doesn't change the origin of the flag, as the symbol of an enemy of our nation, of slavery, and the of white supremacists.

I know some people outside the South like to use the flag as a general 'fuck you' to whatever level of the government they dislike, or simply to piss off and troll people who are not ok with it. It directly and materially supports and enables the Lost Cause mythology, and all the ugliness that it has caused.

Confederate symbols do not belong on government property, at the very least, and your bosses seem to agree.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Keeping them in the public eye, to serve education and historical purposes, is a more justifiable reason to protect them in place than what most are saying.

Most are not arguing to keep them in public for those reasons, however.

You'd be wrong about that. It's actually a major reason for why the discussion is going on. It's literally erasing history (ie historical awareness) or it's throw them into a garbage bin (ie the museum counter-argument because apparently museums are we were dump shit no want wants to see anymore).

You might be unaware of that because your too busy maligning anyone who disagrees on this issue as neo-confederates and equivalents to those who apologize for Comfort Women of course while simultaneously offering no solutions beyond buzzwords and campaign slogans.

But this thread started as a discussion pertaining to Confederate symbols in the US military, not on statuary in general.

Their current patriotism and love of the Constitution is not in question, I want to make that clear.

It does make them the equivalent of Comfort Women apologists and Neo-Confederates tho as we can see from this thread in the eyes of immigrant hating but centrist appealing "moderates." 😇

But that doesn't change the origin of the flag, as the symbol of an enemy of our nation, of slavery, and the of white supremacists.

I know some people outside the South like to use the flag as a general 'fuck you' to whatever level of the government they dislike, or simply to piss off and troll people who are not ok with it. It directly and materially supports and enables the Lost Cause mythology, and all the ugliness that it has caused.

Are you talking about the Stars and Bars or a MAGA hat? I can't tell.

 

[hyperspacewizard]

It’s a flag you people are insane are they going to be pissed if someone puts up a unsc flag or the flag of the Roman Empire. If the flag is in someone bunk it should be allowed under freedom of expression you don’t get to tell me what a symbol means to me your not a freaken mind reader. Just because something offends you or someone else should have no bearing especially in America my god how is this hard.

 

[Bacle]

You'd be wrong about that. It's actually a major reason for why the discussion is going on. It's literally erasing history (ie historical awareness) or it's throw them into a garbage bin (ie the museum counter-argument because apparently museums are we were dump shit no want wants to see anymore).

You might be unaware of that because your too busy maligning anyone who disagrees on this issue as neo-confederates and equivalents to those who apologize for Comfort Women of course while simultaneously offering no solutions beyond buzzwords and campaign slogans.

But this thread started as a discussion pertaining to Confederate symbols in the US military, not on statuary in general.



It does make them the equivalent of Comfort Women apologists and Neo-Confederates tho as we can see from this thread in the eyes of immigrant hating but centrist appealing "moderates." 😇



Are you talking about the Stars and Bars or a MAGA hat? I can't tell.

It’s a flag you people are insane are they going to be pissed if someone puts up a unsc flag or the flag of the Roman Empire. If the flag is in someone bunk it should be allowed under freedom of expression you don’t get to tell me what a symbol means to me your not a freaken mind reader. Just because something offends you or someone else should have no bearing especially in America my god how is this hard.

I'll just leave this here.