Sci-Fi Tech Combat Armor Aesthetics and Utility In Fallout and Science Fiction

[Zachowon]

Wait you actually think that goofy looking armor looks good?

Yes.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

The issue with nu vs old combat armor IMO is that the old armor actually looked like some sort of suit you could put on as an individual within a short amount of time with minimal training. Makes sense given it was actually sold to civilians in high numbers, and intended for use with mass conscripted American people.
The new armor set looks like it requires three people to put it on, apparently has no inbuilt undersuit to take fragmentation/radiation, and no ballistic visor.
Weirdly enough it's a similar issue I have with old vs new halo designs, where older designs have everything 'integrated' while the newer designs are more modular.
If you look at a lot of cold-war era stuff, they go for the 'integrated' look, rather than modular flexible designs.

Think SPIW/SALVO/ACR/G11 vs modern M4 carbines with all their rails.

 

[Zachowon]

But yeah, it is more modernish. I say modernist because it wasn't a new thing to be modulat

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

But yeah, it is more modernish. I say modernist because it wasn't a new thing to be modulat

I agree, modular stuff existed for quite some time, but I'm not too sure if modular stuff fits the OG Fallout design theme too well.
I also have problems with the damned AR-15 with rails in NV.

 

[Zachowon]

I agree, modular stuff existed for quite some time, but I'm not too sure if modular stuff fits the OG Fallout design theme too well.
I also have problems with the damned AR-15 with rails in NV.

I mean, if you could customize it it would be nice, the way you can in 4.
I mean modular I think fits, if you make it lore friendly.
I say the new armor works better then the old

 

[Carrot of Truth]

The new armor looks like it would weigh 100+ pounds. But I have a great dislike of bulky high fantasy looking armor in general. I prefer stuff to look more practical and like something someone could conceivably use. I don't really like any of Bethesdas post Oblivion art direction the cartoonish stuff started with Skyrim and followed into Fallout 4.

 

[Zachowon]

The new armor looks like it would weigh 100+ pounds. But I have a great dislike of bulky high fantasy looking armor in general. I prefer stuff to look more practical and like something someone could conceivably use. I don't really like any of Bethesdas post Oblivion art direction the cartoonish stuff started with Skyrim and followed into Fallout 4.

Eh, you would he surprised the kinda stuff we use IRL.
Light weight is a factor, but it is still bulky. Just look at what a soldier in full kit looked like during the mid 2000s

 

[Airedale260]

I agree, modular stuff existed for quite some time, but I'm not too sure if modular stuff fits the OG Fallout design theme too well.
I also have problems with the damned AR-15 with rails in NV.

To be fair, that could have been a thing that ended up being developed down the line…the AR-15 dates from 1958, so someone or a couple of someones could have come up with the idea and it got shelved while society slowly rebuilt.

Remember, in the original Fallout, the NCR is a single town. By the time of New Vegas, they’re not only a (more or less) fully functional country, but also have things like functioning trains, vehicles, and the like. We just don’t see that because Vegas is more or less the frontier. I know one of the designers hated New Vegas with the loss of some of the “apocalyptic feel” of the first three, but honestly, I feel like New Vegas is just the natural progression of civilization slowly rebuilding itself after 204 years.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

Eh, you would he surprised the kinda stuff we use IRL.
Light weight is a factor, but it is still bulky. Just look at what a soldier in full kit looked like during the mid 2000s

That's about what was worn in actual combat although it is a bit more recent. Not much bulk and prior war like veitnam ect soldiers carried far less in actual combat.

 

[Aaron Fox]

BattleTech used a similar aesthetic for their renditions of non-powered combat armor, and arguably the 90s and early 00s was the height of BattleTech's popularity and especially would have been known in video gaming circles of the time due to the success of MechWarrior 2.

There's also the Doom Marine, which is somewhat similar as well, and Doom was HUGE in the 90s, having had three games published before Fallout 1 came out.

So there was other SF properties using combat armor in a somewhat similar style, and they likely would have been known to the company.

It's like how, after the first Starship Troopers movie came out, everyone and their freaking brother used their armor in some way or fashion.

I'd prefer Classic Combat armor over this god damned abomination.

Actually, it's more realistic than you would think. Pulse lasers require thickness to counter, and -to borrow a GURPS term- this armor is likely a laminate armor as well (which is bulky as heck). In addition, the military fatigues are supposed to be part of the set, or the actual undersuits have been all degraded to shit.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Actually, it's more realistic than you would think. Pulse lasers require thickness to counter, and -to borrow a GURPS term- this armor is likely a laminate armor as well (which is bulky as heck). In addition, the military fatigues are supposed to be part of the set, or the actual undersuits have been all degraded to shit.

See funny story, but simple metal armor is actually better against lasers than combat armor (75 DR and 6 DT for metal, 60 DR and 8 DT for combat armor).
So I doubt combat armor is tooooooo thick.
The reason metal armor is better against lasers? And this is going to sound retarded but it's true.

It's shiny

 

[Aaron Fox]

See funny story, but simple metal armor is actually better against lasers than combat armor (75 DR and 6 DT for metal, 60 DR and 8 DT for combat armor).
So I doubt combat armor is tooooooo thick.
The reason metal armor is better against lasers? And this is going to sound retarded but it's true.

It's shiny

Shiny doesn't work against weapons grade lasers (let alone the fact that Fallout lasers are pulse lasers, which makes shiny even less useful). You'll need to be 100% reflective or it fails the first shot and then you die (or, more likely, it goes right on through and kills you anyway). To defend against lasers, you'll need thickness, high-energy resistant materials (like, oh, various ceramics, aerogels, various carbon composites, high-density metals, that sort of thing), or both. Various groups looked into 'mirror armor' as a defense against lasers but discovered that mirrors are useless in that regard.

High-end combat armor is likely a composite/laminate of various materials including some sort of iridium-osmium alloy (two of the densest metals in reality that isn't elements like uranium) and some sort of high-density metal ceramic that isn't depleted uranium. So, it's going to be bulky as hell.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Shiny doesn't work against weapons grade lasers (let alone the fact that Fallout lasers are pulse lasers, which makes shiny even less useful). You'll need to be 100% reflective or it fails the first shot and then you die (or, more likely, it goes right on through and kills you anyway). To defend against lasers, you'll need thickness, high-energy resistant materials (like, oh, various ceramics, aerogels, various carbon composites, high-density metals, that sort of thing), or both. Various groups looked into 'mirror armor' as a defense against lasers but discovered that mirrors are useless in that regard.

Oh I know this already, however Fallout is the land of Godzillas, hulk mutant monsters, Dr Who, Elvis Presley robbing aliens, and Star Trek all within the same universe.

It's made doubly canon due to a certain (nonfunctional sadly) New Vegas Perk "In Shining Armor" where mirrored shades can make you more laser-resistant too lmao.

High-end combat armor is likely a composite/laminate of various materials including some sort of iridium-osmium alloy (two of the densest metals in reality that isn't elements like uranium) and some sort of high-density metal ceramic that isn't depleted uranium. So, it's going to be bulky as hell.

None of the fallout games specify materials too much, but the OG games note "High tech armor, made out of advanced defensive polymers"
So...Basically !Future! kevlar. Maybe some metal plating on the torso/vitals.

 

[Zachowon]

That's about what was worn in actual combat although it is a bit more recent. Not much bulk and prior war like veitnam ect soldiers carried far less in actual combat.

This is the modular design of our boy armor.
That adds a lot of extra shit to your armor.
That is not even the worst offender of it.

And then you get into the extra weight carried by rucks and assault packs and the bulkiness of that, ir the belts that go onto the front of the IOTVs.

Modular.

 

[Morphic Tide]

You'll need to be 100% reflective or it fails the first shot and then you die (or, more likely, it goes right on through and kills you anyway).

No, the reflectivity acts as an inverse devisor to the specific heat capacity for the quality of the armor. If the ceramic is 2% reflective and the metal is 98% reflective, then the ceramic is exposed to 98% of the energy while the metal only has to deal with 1/50th, so the metal remains better against lasers with 1/30th the specific heat capacity.

Thermal conductivity is minimally significant because a separate insulator layer is a very good and cheap answer to that issue compared to adding a third design factor to worry about and pulse lasers have relatively little of the energy stay in the target to begin with due to ablating by sublimation of exposed material.

Edit: Most importantly, it also has to deal with bullets. It is a very tall order for a ceramic to deal with both, only slightly less bullshittium for a polymer, but rather straightforward for a metal. The generally high density of metals entails a much easier time handling a lot of body coverage because the physical volume is low, whereas at-first-glance "unobtanium" ceramics will result in great difficulties in practice because you end up needing something silly like ten times the thickness.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

This is the modular design of our boy armor.
That adds a lot of extra shit to your armor.
That is not even the worst offender of it.

And then you get into the extra weight carried by rucks and assault packs and the bulkiness of that, ir the belts that go onto the front of the IOTVs.

Modular.

I've never seen anyone actually wear the arm and codpiece add-ons.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

A thread about sci-fi armour? Marvellous! Now I don't believe this is the most functional armour, but there are far worse and by God is it snazzy.

Helghast soldier: 2370

 

[Husky_Khan]

I've never seen anyone actually wear the arm and codpiece add-ons.

Is it still called a codpiece if its just an armor cover for the groin? A name like a groin protector or scrotal shield seems more fitting.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

Is it still called a codpiece if its just an armor cover for the groin? A name like a groin protector or scrotal shield seems more fitting.

I'm not sure what it's called now. From recall the army was investing in some sort of Kevlar clothing that was like underarmor because no one wanted to carry all that extra crap and wouldn't use it.

 

[Zachowon]

I've never seen anyone actually wear the arm and codpiece add-ons.

Is it still called a codpiece if its just an armor cover for the groin? A name like a groin protector or scrotal shield seems more fitting.

It is modular

I'm not sure what it's called now. From recall the army was investing in some sort of Kevlar clothing that was like underarmor because no one wanted to carry all that extra crap and wouldn't use it.

AFAIK not made and not possible.

But basically modular design is how things are th3se days
And I like the new armor. Fits the kinda layered stuff you get with modular