China ChiCom News Thread

[Marduk]

The thread is about China yes. But our conversation link was transferred from some other thread, and I forgot which one.

The Hamas one. Because you were talking about China there in context of your usual pushing of isolationism and downsizing US military budget. Well, you still do that here, but it's equally stupid both in cases of China and islamists, so whatever.

And the reason why enslaving/oppressing others on religion, culture, or politics is less bad than race. Is because race is unchangeable. You Marduk are a Polish man ethnically nothing you do can change this, you can't turn yourself black or Chinese.

I can't also turn myself Spanish. With a lot of study i could decide to larp as Spanish somewhat convincingly, be it for business, love, espionage, hobby or evading slavery, but i still won't be Spanish by nationality.

However you can convert to Christianity, or Islam, or communism, or Fascism, etc. ,

Will the islamists, communists or fascists ever trust me around them with guns?
In many of such most people are just varying degrees of enslaved.

Those are things you can change you can join the empire and be part of society.

Not all blacks in USA were slaves. So they absolutely could be part of society. Foreign blacks were the ones that became enslaved.

That's why Hitler's crimes are worse than previous crimes. He killed Jews and Slavs and thats not something you can stop being(ethnically) Killing someone for being Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, Muslim is different because people can and have changed those unlike their skin color.

Let's not confuse killing with slavery, shall we?
As above, this argument has the same weakness, forced conversions, religious and political, are quite untrustworthy, and anyone with a triple digit IQ knows this, and many of abovementioned groups are ruthless enough to act on that knowledge (those who aren't, good luck, it can work out for you, sometimes you get a bad roll of luck though), so your theoretical difference often turns into surprisingly little practical difference.

 

[King Arts]

I can't also turn myself Spanish.

Do you want me to list everything you can't be?

Will the islamists, communists or fascists ever trust me around them with guns?
In many of such most people are just varying degrees of enslaved.

I mean I guess it would depend on multiple factors as converts have been conscripted or been allowed to join. Sometimes they rebel, sometimes they don't and sometimes there are incentives of various sorts to not rebel.

Not all blacks in USA were slaves. So they absolutely could be part of society. Foreign blacks were the ones that became enslaved.

Were there any white slaves? Also no it was not just foreign blacks that were enslaved many of them were born in the US in slavery, and many free blackmen were kidnapped and forced into slavery. As the story 12 years a slave shows.

Let's not confuse killing with slavery, shall we?
As above, this argument has the same weakness, forced conversions, religious and political, are quite untrustworthy, and anyone with a triple digit IQ knows this, and many of abovementioned groups are ruthless enough to act on that knowledge, so your theoretical difference often turns into surprisingly little practical difference.

I was just bringing up bad things.

Conversion by the sword is less untrustworthy than a true conversion yes. But again your own coreligionists the Catholics did force European tribes to join, and the New World Natives and eventually it became authentic.

Again the grandchildren of the converts for the most part would have fit in, there might be some times where there was problems but not really. After all blacks in early America we don't see very many blacks who had positions of great respect and power. Whereas in Spain we can see the grandchild of a Jew Torquemada became chief inquisitor. That is a position of much power. Sure you can make moral arguments against it, but you can't deny that these religious theocratic societies did have social mobility, that black people lacked in America.

 

[Marduk]

Do you want me to list everything you can't be?

But as you see, it's not only race that can't be so flippantly changed.

I mean I guess it would depend on multiple factors as converts have been conscripted or been allowed to join. Sometimes they rebel, sometimes they don't and sometimes there are incentives of various sorts to not rebel.


Were there any white slaves? Also no it was not just foreign blacks that were enslaved many of them were born in the US in slavery, and many free blackmen were kidnapped and forced into slavery. As the story 12 years a slave shows.

White slavery - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Well few people are de facto enslaved even in most liberal western societies, doesn't change that it's not a legal and state accepted practice. Kidnapping? Sounds criminal to me...
Born in slavery is still by some metrics a foreigner's descendant, citizenship by soil is mostly a colonial thing, so not so unusual they didn't apply it to slaves.

I was just bringing up bad things.

Yes, you were. It makes me think of this in such context:

And you are lynching Negroes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I for one look with extreme suspicion towards those who "just bring up bad things" when you criticize some bunch of commies or other scum educated by commie allies.,
This bit is super relevant:

Usage by other countries

In addition to Soviet Union and its satellites, and later, Russia, similar deflecting arguments related to racism in the United States have been used by a number of politicians, diplomats and state-controlled media from countries whose human rights abuses have been criticized by the United States government, NGOs or citizens. Countries which have been said to use the "Are you lynching Negroes" rhetoric in the early 21st century include China, Iran, Syria and North Korea.

Conversion by the sword is less untrustworthy than a true conversion yes. But again your own coreligionists the Catholics did force European tribes to join, and the New World Natives and eventually it became authentic.

Over many generations, with full on conquests. Some of them not so authentic, to the point of allying with leftists to shit on it.

Again the grandchildren of the converts for the most part would have fit in, there might be some times where there was problems but not really. After all blacks in early America we don't see very many blacks who had positions of great respect and power. Whereas in Spain we can see the grandchild of a Jew Torquemada became chief inquisitor. That is a position of much power. Sure you can make moral arguments against it, but you can't deny that these religious theocratic societies did have social mobility, that black people lacked in America.

So it's not a fundamental difference, but some different shade of grey, here and there, sometimes, that is how it is.

 

[King Arts]

But as you see, it's not only race that can't be so flippantly changed.

Ethnicity and race are almost the same thing. Spanish race, Jewish race, German race, etc.

Well few people are de facto enslaved even in most liberal western societies, doesn't change that it's not a legal and state accepted practice. Kidnapping? Sounds criminal to me...
Born in slavery is still by some metrics a foreigner's descendant, citizenship by soil is mostly a colonial thing, so not so unusual they didn't apply it to slaves.

Why do you keep shifting the goalpost with this bad faith debating? And indentured servitude is not slavery, because they called it something else than slavery.

Also in America citizenship by soil is a thing, so the people born on the land are American.

Yes, you were. It makes me think of this in such context:

And you are lynching Negroes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I for one look with extreme suspicion towards those who "just bring up bad things" when you criticize some bunch of commies or other scum educated by commie allies.,
This bit is super relevant:

Usage by other countries

In addition to Soviet Union and its satellites, and later, Russia, similar deflecting arguments related to racism in the United States have been used by a number of politicians, diplomats and state-controlled media from countries whose human rights abuses have been criticized by the United States government, NGOs or citizens. Countries which have been said to use the "Are you lynching Negroes" rhetoric in the early 21st century include China, Iran, Syria and North Korea.

But you are the one who is pulling that? This whole thing is to show that your side is not better than the other. "You are lynching negroes" is a deflection tactic. If I'm saying you are doing the same thing or have done the same thing it's not deflection. If I acknowledge both things are wrong it's just that. You are the one using that as a shield to prevent criticism and hide the wests crimes.

Over many generations, with full on conquests. Some of them not so authentic, to the point of allying with leftists to shit on it.

What are you talking about?

So it's not a fundamental difference, but some different shade of grey, here and there, sometimes, that is how it is.

No there is a big differance, the grandson of a black man won't be getting a good high status position in society until modern times.

 

[Marduk]

Ethnicity and race are almost the same thing. Spanish race, Jewish race, German race, etc.

The *almost* however completely compromises the argument about race being special in that regard. If nationality, then also culture, if culture, then also ideologies that demand dramatic change of culture can be covered, in the end it boils down to individual times and places having their own "changeable" and "not really changeable" allegiances according to own changing needs, whims and interests, and related to how convincing someone may be in pretending, versus how trusting the other side is towards forced converts.

Why do you keep shifting the goalpost with this bad faith debating? And indentured servitude is not slavery, because they called it something else than slavery.

In practice the difference from slavery in average treatment was hard to tell and a lot of variation also happened between variations of slavery, and as the link shows, even the people of the age noticed that difference being mostly theoretical from the point of view of the victim.

Also in America citizenship by soil is a thing, so the people born on the land are American.

And back then it covered free people only, so legalism wins you nothing.

But you are the one who is pulling that? This whole thing is to show that your side is not better than the other.

That's not what the other side thinks about themselves though, and if we humor such SJWish self-flagellation, that's only to their benefit through demoralization, hence i will remain hostile to such sentiments and treat any who promote them with scorn.

"You are lynching negroes" is a deflection tactic. If I'm saying you are doing the same thing or have done the same thing it's not deflection. If I acknowledge both things are wrong it's just that. You are the one using that as a shield to prevent criticism and hide the wests crimes.

I refuse to humor the temporal guilt jujitsu - "West was doing mean things 200 years ago like everyone else, so we should tolerate everyone doing mean things, even to us, now and in the future".
By that logic, we need to destroy CCP for things they will do in the future.
Besides, if you want to be cynical, those who had the martial power would do terrible things to those who back then did such mean things to their own, and that's a custom we should absolutely bring back.

What are you talking about?

Why more Indigenous people are leaving Christianity | Broadview Magazine

"I just realized that it’s so much bigger than this white man’s church,” says one Ojibwe woman of losing her religion

broadview.org

No there is a big differance, the grandson of a black man won't be getting a good high status position in society until modern times.

And?
Who cares about some tokenism, except the usual suspects of course? Not me...
99.9% of peasant's sons in North Korea won't be getting a high status position either. And the handful who do, well who gives a fuck about them, it won't make the rest any less hungry or oppressed. I categorically refuse this whole framework which oh so coincidentally and conveniently makes the communist pattern of oppressing societies look "less bad" than the favorite "just listing bad things" historical western practices.
Screw that, let's make it reverse - if a society oppresses almost everyone, it's worse than oppressing just some.

 

[Bacle]

So more nations are just shooting the CCP poacher fleets.

 

[AmosTrask]

So more nations are just shooting the CCP poacher fleets.

Beautiful. Yes. Sink every one that violates borders

 

[Jormungandr]

So more nations are just shooting the CCP poacher fleets.

Fucking finally!

Blow those cunts up and sending their state-sponsored, wildlife-poaching arses to the depths.

 

[Zachowon]

Yes I understand vehicles can't be out there 24/7 and they have to be brought back to port for repairs and refits. But again why do we need to have 24/7 coverage. That's too much you want us to be the world's policeman.

Because freedom of navigation is a 24/7 operation....do you think pirates will not be out there when we arnt around?
The founding charter of the USN literally mentions protecting world trade aka freedom of navigation

It also let's others see the specs of our tech. You can argue it would be better to keep them guessing.

if we stagnate and get complacent we will lose anybadvantage we have.
Yes our tech is so far ahead right now.
But in 20 years if we don't make sure we are ahead we may nit be anymore and that is not good.
Because believe it or not, our adversaries would gladly make sure we are isolationists

Isn't this putting the cart before the horse? You are claiming they are enemies and saying we have to stop their empire building. But who decides what an enemy is? Many don't seem to have a problem with our "allies" empire building, to be honest weakening the British Empire sounds better since the British could actually be a threat to us with Canada at our north.

.....yes our oldest ally is going to try and invade us with one of the weakest militaries in all of NATO....
Who isn't technically underneath them anymore and can operate by themselves....
None of our allies are starting wars to claim territory as thier own for them to have breathing room between them and an adversary.
They are our enemies because they have made it a point to teach thier entire population to hate us and despise us.
North Korea? Has games for thier kids where they stab bales if hay painted as Americans.
China is teaching its kids to hate America and want to see it destroyed.
Russia has been feeding its own people that we are a threat to them just for existing.
iran literally has chants fir death to america.
The Houthis flag has death to America on it!!

So with Russia I was asking what would be the consequence of them defeating us in war. And are you saying that if we lose and fail to protect Ukraine they won't be our allies? That makes them sound like not good allies and maybe we should dump them.

i am saying if we let Ukraine fall, our allies in europe, not necessarily Ukraine, will not see us as capabke of helping them, and potentially willing to negotiate with having Russia be thier buddy buddy, and even letting NATO countries get given to russia to apease the bear.

Or the other possibility is that Ukraine falls, Poland and the Baltic states gear up for war because Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania would not be able to do whta Ukraine did, and NATO may not be able to react in time and now Russia has 4 mkre countries under its claws.
poland is not almost completely surrounded by Russia and we are getting closer to the USSR returning....

No you don't understand at the end of the day the National Guard obey the federal government. I'll give you an eample. You are in the Federal Army and the President orders you to launch an attack on another nation you will obey that right? It doesen't matter if it's an Arab shithole, China, Russia, hell even if it was a former ally like the UK or France. If it was a legal order you'd follow it right?

the guard only obeys the fedd if the governor allows them to be activated on title 10 orders... learn how yhis works....
and what is the reason? Them saying it is legal doesn't mean it is legal, and are we at war, we're we attacked? Was congress involved?
And we wouldmt attack UK....maybe france but they might deserve it.
because they are literally a ling standing ally.
unless they attack us we wouldt attack them because that is how it works.
or if an ally calls for aide against one if them....

Now if the Governor of the California national guard orders his guardsmen to go invade some part of Nevada or whatever. Even if its a "legal" order that won't be followed the Federal Government will have things to say. National Guardsmen won't fire on federal troops or other states national guard.

the governor can use his troops how ever he wants. Ifbhe wants tobinvade another state sure.
national guard troops are and are not apart of the federal chain or command. Because national guard troops are not federal troops. Thier command and chief unless on active orders, is thier governor. They have thier own state leaders and everything.
If NG and Federal troops get into a fight si be it.
Federal government can only force NG into being federal under certain circumstances. Most states don't turn it down because more money and training for thier troops.
The state has to approve the use of thier soldiers....

This isn't some thing where the NG are all federal being loaned to the state. No, national guard are strictly states having thier own armies that the feds get loaned to them every now and then

That and the very public inventories of Guard Armories are often several weaponry generations behind the actual military. I've seen Korean War era relics in the Alaskan Guard depots and that's because they were selling them to make room for the shiny new equipment your Federal government approved the purchasing for.

Yep. Remember Guard got Abrams last only because the federal government FINALLY decided to gove it to them. The state was paying for everything else.

 

[Jormungandr]

Because freedom of navigation is a 24/7 operation....do you think pirates will not be out there when we arnt around?
The founding charter of the USN literally mentions protecting world trade aka freedom of navigation

if we stagnate and get complacent we will lose anybadvantage we have.
Yes our tech is so far ahead right now.
But in 20 years if we don't make sure we are ahead we may nit be anymore and that is not good.
Because believe it or not, our adversaries would gladly make sure we are isolationists

.....yes our oldest ally is going to try and invade us with one of the weakest militaries in all of NATO....
Who isn't technically underneath them anymore and can operate by themselves....
None of our allies are starting wars to claim territory as thier own for them to have breathing room between them and an adversary.
They are our enemies because they have made it a point to teach thier entire population to hate us and despise us.
North Korea? Has games for thier kids where they stab bales if hay painted as Americans.
China is teaching its kids to hate America and want to see it destroyed.
Russia has been feeding its own people that we are a threat to them just for existing.
iran literally has chants fir death to america.
The Houthis flag has death to America on it!!

i am saying if we let Ukraine fall, our allies in europe, not necessarily Ukraine, will not see us as capabke of helping them, and potentially willing to negotiate with having Russia be thier buddy buddy, and even letting NATO countries get given to russia to apease the bear.

Or the other possibility is that Ukraine falls, Poland and the Baltic states gear up for war because Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania would not be able to do whta Ukraine did, and NATO may not be able to react in time and now Russia has 4 mkre countries under its claws.
poland is not almost completely surrounded by Russia and we are getting closer to the USSR returning....

the guard only obeys the fedd if the governor allows them to be activated on title 10 orders... learn how yhis works....
and what is the reason? Them saying it is legal doesn't mean it is legal, and are we at war, we're we attacked? Was congress involved?
And we wouldmt attack UK....maybe france but they might deserve it.
because they are literally a ling standing ally.
unless they attack us we wouldt attack them because that is how it works.
or if an ally calls for aide against one if them....

the governor can use his troops how ever he wants. Ifbhe wants tobinvade another state sure.
national guard troops are and are not apart of the federal chain or command. Because national guard troops are not federal troops. Thier command and chief unless on active orders, is thier governor. They have thier own state leaders and everything.
If NG and Federal troops get into a fight si be it.
Federal government can only force NG into being federal under certain circumstances. Most states don't turn it down because more money and training for thier troops.
The state has to approve the use of thier soldiers....

This isn't some thing where the NG are all federal being loaned to the state. No, national guard are strictly states having thier own armies that the feds get loaned to them every now and then

Yep. Remember Guard got Abrams last only because the federal government FINALLY decided to gove it to them. The state was paying for everything else.

Okay, curiosity got the better of me, so I decided to click on "show ignore" to see what was going on.

Glad to see @King Arts' rabid Anglophobia is on full display again. 😮‍💨 FYI, the British Empire legally ended in 1997, but de facto it ended pretty much a decade or so after the Second World War.

Please stop being retarded. Browse Wikipedia (of all places) once in a while for basic knowledge.

 

[Zachowon]

Okay, curiosity got the better of me, so I decided to click on "show ignore" to see what was going on.

Glad to see @King Arts' rabid Anglophobia is on full display again. 😮‍💨 FYI, the British Empire legally ended in 1997, but de facto it ended pretty much a decade or so after the Second World War.

Please stop being retarded. Browse Wikipedia (of all places) once in a while for basic knowledge.

Just know, that at least according to Kimg Arts, if we go to war with you in the UK.
I will make sure to put the SA80 out of its misery for you.
And maybe free London as well.

 

[AmosTrask]

Just know, that at least according to Kimg Arts, if we go to war with you in the UK.
I will make sure to put the SA80 out of its misery for you.
And maybe free London as well.

What the hell? Why?

 

[Jormungandr]

Just know, that at least according to King Arts, if we go to war with you in the UK.
I will make sure to put the SA80 out of its misery for you.
And maybe free London as well.

God, that thing is such a piece of crap.

We direly need a replacement for it.

 

[Jormungandr]

What the hell? Why?

The SA80 is one of the worst rifles ever made. Everyone except the penny-pinchers in government/the Armed Forces hate it.

As for London? He's being hyperbolic, but it's pretty much a foreign country by this point because of the flood of migrants. Walk down a London street and it's like a fucking Middle Eastern bazaar.

Also, the mayor, Sadiq Twat, is basically a corrupt Islamist. So, yeah.

 

[Zachowon]

What the hell? Why?

Jokes jokes.

God, that thing is such a piece of crap.

We direly need a replacement for it.

Your SF sure are going the American way.

The SA80 is one of the worst rifles ever made. Everyone except the penny-pinchers in government/the Armed Forces hate it.

As for London? He's being hyperbolic, but it's pretty much a foreign country by this point because of the flood of migrants. Walk down a London street and it's like a fucking Middle Eastern bazaar.

Also, the mayor, Sadiq Twat, is basically a corrupt Islamist. So, yeah.

Thiugh, the one thing you brits have been good at is helping support US operations globally.
Be it in Europe. ME or as this threat is about, INDOPACOM.

The entirety of FVEY has been very helpful in making sure China doesn't act up

 

[Jormungandr]

Jokes jokes.

Your SF sure are going the American way.

Thiugh, the one thing you brits have been good at is helping support US operations globally.
Be it in Europe. ME or as this threat is about, INDOPACOM.

The entirety of FVEY has been very helpful in making sure China doesn't act up

We drill our troops a lot harder to make up for the smaller size. Unfortunately, our government treats our ex-squaddies like utter crap.

And, yes, they are as the stereotype portrays; fucking kleptomaniacs, haha.

 

[Zachowon]

We drill our troops a lot harder to make up for the smaller size. Unfortunately, our government treats our ex-squaddies like utter crap.

And, yes, they are as the stereotype portrays; fucking kleptomaniacs, haha.

I will bring up the fact that yall have a small military but are damn good at your specialties.

The threat China poses is not to just to the US but the world as whole. The Anglosphere seems to realize this above all else

 

[Jormungandr]

I will bring up the fact that yall have a small military but are damn good at your specialties.

The threat China poses is not to just to the US but the world as whole. The Anglosphere seems to realize this above all else

At its core, China thinks the world is theirs. They still, rather arrogantly, believe that they're the civilized ones and that the rest of the world are just barbarians or savages.

Ironically enough, they're the ones who are acting like barbarians and savages now, right down to street level. They lie, cheat, deceive, and steal even to their own people. They act like the worst aspects of the fucking Ferengi.

They need to be given a wakeup call.

At least other nations are starting to shoot and sink their "fishing" vessels now.

 

[Zachowon]

At its core, China thinks the world is theirs. They still, rather arrogantly, believe that they're the civilized ones and that the rest of the world are just barbarians or savages.

Ironically enough, they're the ones who are acting like barbarians and savages now, right down to street level. They lie, cheat, deceive, and steal even to their own people. They act like the worst aspects of the fucking Ferengi.

They need to be given a wakeup call.

At least other nations are starting to shoot and sink their "fishing" vessels now.

That is a huge plus to the rest of the world and a negative to China.
The world is tired of them.
Which could be good and a bad thing though.

They want the world to be under thier rule like they once thought they had.
Then the brits gave them opium and showed just how fragile they were

 

[LordsFire]

Yes I understand vehicles can't be out there 24/7 and they have to be brought back to port for repairs and refits. But again why do we need to have 24/7 coverage. That's too much you want us to be the world's policeman.

This, once again, shows that you are fundamentally not someone to be taken seriously when it comes to world politics and military affairs, and that your screen name is poorly chosen.

It is basic bitch understanding to know that if you only post a watchman a fraction of the day, that's worse than useless for detering theft. You have to pay the watchman, but the thieves will always wait until the watch has ended to commit their dirty deeds.

Do you think that banks leave their doors and safes unlocked all night?