Bidengate in which a meth head son and possible child abuser ruins your political grift

[Jormungandr]

[...]

This is an excellent breakdown and accumulation of facts/links: There's no doubt in my mind you'd just be considered another "batshit insane conspiracy theorist" if you tried to show this to people/sheeple, though.

My parents have just drunk up all the kool-aid. They got their second boosters this weekend.

Shit.

I've got extended family that have taken the main vaccine and the first booster but not the second, since they've realized that it's never going to end (they and their friends basically said "fuck them [Pfizer/the government]", lol).

I'm kinda worried about my immediate family, too: I think two of them had to take the vaccine and its boosters for their jobs. I really hope they don't just, you know, drop down dead or something in a few years.

 

[Robovski]

The thing about living your life with a threat of sudden massive change or just simply doom is that you have to be aware of it, but otherwise ignore it and just live your life like it's not going to happen. I've known my entire life that a new pandemic was due and frankly that just lived in the same space as nuclear war, something I could not do much about beyond the basic provisions I make having grown up in the Midwest that we make for the weather, like having a pantry and some items incase you lose power/heat/access to supplies for a week. Being prepared in a sane fashion is perfectly fine, having some idea of the danger and what to do is fine, but you still need to live in society as it is until something that may never happen happens. You can go full prepper and withdraw from society, and if you think that is what is imminent then more power to you, I don't fault someone to reading the signs and making a decision, but really if you are wrong you are not far from one of those people who signed thier life away because the Mayan Calendar was going to end.

 

[Typhonis]

Washington Post editorial board admits Hunter Biden story is a 'reckoning' for media (msn.com)


So why is this stuff coming out now?

 

[Rocinante]

Washington Post editorial board admits Hunter Biden story is a 'reckoning' for media (msn.com)


So why is this stuff coming out now?

It's coming back up now because NYT and Washington Post did a forensic analysis on some of the emails and discovered they actually are real. Then actually admitted it. After running cover for the Bidens for almost two years.

They've been real this whole time..but it's okay for mass media to admit it now.

We are seeing more and more of this. Biden is becoming less useful and the protective shield the media has had up for him is beginning to crumble.

They'll turn on him entirely by 2024, I suspect they'll stop caring if it makes the party look weak and will attempt to primary him.

 

[PsihoKekec]

Perhaps they are preparing the ground for Biden to step down, two years into his term and Horizontal Kamala taking over.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

The media is trying to regain its credibility with the average American. I think they're too far gone at this point, but we'll see.

 

[f1onagher]

Washington Post editorial board admits Hunter Biden story is a 'reckoning' for media (msn.com)


So why is this stuff coming out now?

The Justice department has been investigating Hunter for awhile now (even before the 2020 election) and they're starting to come up with pay dirt. The legacy media is nervous that Hunter will go to trial (fat chance) in public fashion and it'll be pointed out that they never touched the subject matter despite how news worthy it was. This is pure ass covering and you'll notice that its only right wing outlets making a big deal of this admission. Left wing ones are trying to keep it under the radar like they did when the FBI admitted that they knew the Steele dossier was bunk from day one.

 

[Cherico]

The Justice department has been investigating Hunter for awhile now (even before the 2020 election) and they're starting to come up with pay dirt. The legacy media is nervous that Hunter will go to trial (fat chance) in public fashion and it'll be pointed out that they never touched the subject matter despite how news worthy it was. This is pure ass covering and you'll notice that its only right wing outlets making a big deal of this admission. Left wing ones are trying to keep it under the radar like they did when the FBI admitted that they knew the Steele dossier was bunk from day one.

A whole lot of people need to be fired.

 

[Iconoclast]

Twenty years ago, the Left that I remember - the remnants of dreadlocked hippies in flower power vans - would have called DTRA-linked NGOs working on viruses in foreign labs "military-industrial complex big pharma colonialism", and then muttered something about how Pfizer and Monsanto are working together to make GMO crops that contain vaccines.

Today, the Left are like, just take it. Just take the shots being made by multi-billion-dollar pharmaceutical companies with advertisers and media firms in their back pockets. Capitalism is bad, except when it's good and makes socially-responsible things like vaccines, which you are obligated to take. What's that? You don't want to have an untested gene therapy shot? You motherfucker! OBEY GUBMINT!

Even Noam Chomsky couldn't adhere to his principles from thirty years ago. The same guy who wrote an entire book about how a tiny number of media companies control our lives is now telling you to just shut up and obey, and that if you don't, you should be barred from society.

 

[Cherico]

Twenty years ago, the Left that I remember - the remnants of dreadlocked hippies in flower power vans - would have called DTRA-linked NGOs working on viruses in foreign labs "military-industrial complex big pharma colonialism", and then muttered something about how Pfizer and Monsanto are working together to make GMO crops that contain vaccines.

Today, the Left are like, just take it. Just take the shots being made by multi-billion-dollar pharmaceutical companies with advertisers and media firms in their back pockets. Capitalism is bad, except when it's good and makes socially-responsible things like vaccines, which you are obligated to take. What's that? You don't want to have an untested gene therapy shot? You motherfucker! OBEY GUBMINT!

Even Noam Chomsky couldn't adhere to his principles from thirty years ago. The same guy who wrote an entire book about how a tiny number of media companies control our lives is now telling you to just shut up and obey, and that if you don't, you should be barred from society.

oh thats easy, corperate america decided to throw a temper tantrum when after some of them caused the great recession and had to be bailed out at great monetary and political expense the republican party said.

"Hey your not going to have the head seat at the table for awhile your voice will still be important but some one else is going to talk for a bit."

So after being more or less in charge for at that point a century they threw that temper tantrum and joined up with the democrats. In one of the biggest anime betrayls of the century. And they knew fucking knew that if they didn't utterly take over the democratic party that they would be left completely with out any allies.

 

[LordsFire]

oh thats easy, corperate america decided to throw a temper tantrum when after some of them caused the great recession and had to be bailed out at great monetary and political expense the republican party said.

"Hey your not going to have the head seat at the table for awhile your voice will still be important but some one else is going to talk for a bit."

So after being more or less in charge for at that point a century they threw that temper tantrum and joined up with the democrats. In one of the biggest anime betrayls of the century. And they knew fucking knew that if they didn't utterly take over the democratic party that they would be left completely with out any allies.

The fact that corporate management and elites have been graduating from increasingly-leftist academic institutions has had a significant role to play in the shift of 'big business' towards the left.

Also, the 2008 crash was caused by government meddling, not the private sector, though some dishonest practices there made it worse.

 

[Agent23]

A whole lot of people need to be executed for high treason.

There, fixed it for you!

 

[49ersfootball]

Big question is whether we'll see several Dems pressuring Uncle Joe to retire in 2024 as the scandal explodes ?

 

[Husky_Khan]

Apparently one of the whistleblowers, Jack Maxey, a Trump official who has a copy of the data from the Hard Drive is hiding in Zurich, Switzerland and data mining the hard drive contents including stuff that might've been deleted or overwritten with the intent of creating an online searchable database.

Whistleblower who revealed Hunter Biden's laptop fled to Switzerland

Whistleblower Jack Maxey gave DailyMail.com a copy of the hard drive from Hunter Biden's abandoned laptop in the spring of 2021.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[WyldCard4]

This is an excellent breakdown and accumulation of facts/links: There's no doubt in my mind you'd just be considered another "batshit insane conspiracy theorist" if you tried to show this to people/sheeple, though.

Saying this as nicely as possible, he looks a lot like a batshit insane conspiracy theorist. The drawing from a super wide set of foggy and largely uncorrelated evidence, the very elaborate and highly malicious conspiracy, the persecution complex.

That being said, one of the archtypical examples of a conspiracy theorist is the UFO nut, who was recently basically proven at least 75% right to nobody really noticing as the military in the US declassified a bunch of stuff that is really hard to explain. Just being a conspiracy theorist doesn't make you wrong.

I still actively think @*THASF* is wrong, but that's a different question.

Twenty years ago, the Left that I remember - the remnants of dreadlocked hippies in flower power vans - would have called DTRA-linked NGOs working on viruses in foreign labs "military-industrial complex big pharma colonialism", and then muttered something about how Pfizer and Monsanto are working together to make GMO crops that contain vaccines.

Today, the Left are like, just take it. Just take the shots being made by multi-billion-dollar pharmaceutical companies with advertisers and media firms in their back pockets. Capitalism is bad, except when it's good and makes socially-responsible things like vaccines, which you are obligated to take. What's that? You don't want to have an untested gene therapy shot? You motherfucker! OBEY GUBMINT!

Even Noam Chomsky couldn't adhere to his principles from thirty years ago. The same guy who wrote an entire book about how a tiny number of media companies control our lives is now telling you to just shut up and obey, and that if you don't, you should be barred from society.

Well, let me try and present the side I'm from, which is pro-vaccine.

1. Lots of things made of poisons or potential poisons are used in just about everything. I don't take the argument that it's directly harmful because of what it's made of particularly seriously. It's a damn tiny jab optimized to teach an immune system how to fight. I'd need a lot more evidence to believe it's actually worse than covid.
2. If it was even a lot better than covid, we'd be dealing with a pretty massive public health crisis I think would be visible because covid is really that awful. The risks for an average person getting covid are small, but the huge pile up of people who have worse reactions than usual lead to a lot of problems. See how a poorly vaccinated area like Hong Kong is doing right now. Even assuming there's a conspiracy to cover up side effects, which I think is actually plausible, I don't think it's plausible it's worse on average than covid itself is.
3. The long term risks of covid vaccination and the unproven tech, yeah, that's an issue. My guess is that the long term risks of the jab are a lot lower than the long term risks of random crazy bat virus, see "long covid" and concerns about long term damage to lungs. My intuition about "crazy Chinese bat virus" vs "random new-fangled tech gizmo" lean towards fearing the bat virus more.
4. There might, might be an over-zealousness to getting healthy young people vaccinated, if the side effects are notably worse than is generally admitted. The problem here is that a lot of why we want vaccination isn't "individual outcome" but "group outcome." More vaccinated populations spread the virus slower, have less of a chance for it to mutate, and protect the especially vulnerable to covid a lot better than unvaccinated ones. It might be against many individual's interests to be vaccinated while still a good idea to get everyone vaccinated on average, and there's a good chance of "tragedy of the commons" being in place if the side effects aren't implausibly bad.
5. I don't think this logic is particularly impacted even if it was a bio-weapon lab leak, which I still consider really implausible. The new-fangled vacccines seem to work really well at every stage of making the virus less harmful and there's a lot of competition with more traditional types of vaccines to see what actually stops covid, and it seems older types of vaccines just don't work as well based on public health statistics. If Sputnik or Sinovax was working better I'd imagine absolutely insufferable talk about it to have gone on for like a year now, but it really doesn't seem that way. Note that China's still using lockdowns despite their usage of an old style of domestically produced vaccine which I don't think anyone's arguing has ties to the American bioweapon stuff.
6. I am uncomfortable with forced vaccination, and admit it is being forced on people. I consider it a difficult decision because the community impacts of vaccination are so large, and think the weight of history points to this being well established as a thing states do that we just kind of forgot about due to the lack of recent epidemics. Still, coming from the perspective that vaccines are probably safe and effective my sympathy for antivaxxers is honestly pretty low in "stack up everyone based on how bad I feel for them" terms. Individual stories can get to me, but it seems like a really small injustice.
7. I think at the core this post is pointless, because people either are going to believe in the conspiracy or not, and I can't overcome the full conspiracy paradigm. But I've been troubled over the past few days at just how hard it is to reconcile without ignoring it.

 

[Iconoclast]

Saying this as nicely as possible, he looks a lot like a batshit insane conspiracy theorist. The drawing from a super wide set of foggy and largely uncorrelated evidence, the very elaborate and highly malicious conspiracy, the persecution complex.

That being said, one of the archtypical examples of a conspiracy theorist is the UFO nut, who was recently basically proven at least 75% right to nobody really noticing as the military in the US declassified a bunch of stuff that is really hard to explain. Just being a conspiracy theorist doesn't make you wrong.

I still actively think @*THASF* is wrong, but that's a different question.



Well, let me try and present the side I'm from, which is pro-vaccine.

1. Lots of things made of poisons or potential poisons are used in just about everything. I don't take the argument that it's directly harmful because of what it's made of particularly seriously. It's a damn tiny jab optimized to teach an immune system how to fight. I'd need a lot more evidence to believe it's actually worse than covid.
2. If it was even a lot better than covid, we'd be dealing with a pretty massive public health crisis I think would be visible because covid is really that awful. The risks for an average person getting covid are small, but the huge pile up of people who have worse reactions than usual lead to a lot of problems. See how a poorly vaccinated area like Hong Kong is doing right now. Even assuming there's a conspiracy to cover up side effects, which I think is actually plausible, I don't think it's plausible it's worse on average than covid itself is.
3. The long term risks of covid vaccination and the unproven tech, yeah, that's an issue. My guess is that the long term risks of the jab are a lot lower than the long term risks of random crazy bat virus, see "long covid" and concerns about long term damage to lungs. My intuition about "crazy Chinese bat virus" vs "random new-fangled tech gizmo" lean towards fearing the bat virus more.
4. There might, might be an over-zealousness to getting healthy young people vaccinated, if the side effects are notably worse than is generally admitted. The problem here is that a lot of why we want vaccination isn't "individual outcome" but "group outcome." More vaccinated populations spread the virus slower, have less of a chance for it to mutate, and protect the especially vulnerable to covid a lot better than unvaccinated ones. It might be against many individual's interests to be vaccinated while still a good idea to get everyone vaccinated on average, and there's a good chance of "tragedy of the commons" being in place if the side effects aren't implausibly bad.
5. I don't think this logic is particularly impacted even if it was a bio-weapon lab leak, which I still consider really implausible. The new-fangled vacccines seem to work really well at every stage of making the virus less harmful and there's a lot of competition with more traditional types of vaccines to see what actually stops covid, and it seems older types of vaccines just don't work as well based on public health statistics. If Sputnik or Sinovax was working better I'd imagine absolutely insufferable talk about it to have gone on for like a year now, but it really doesn't seem that way. Note that China's still using lockdowns despite their usage of an old style of domestically produced vaccine which I don't think anyone's arguing has ties to the American bioweapon stuff.
6. I am uncomfortable with forced vaccination, and admit it is being forced on people. I consider it a difficult decision because the community impacts of vaccination are so large, and think the weight of history points to this being well established as a thing states do that we just kind of forgot about due to the lack of recent epidemics. Still, coming from the perspective that vaccines are probably safe and effective my sympathy for antivaxxers is honestly pretty low in "stack up everyone based on how bad I feel for them" terms. Individual stories can get to me, but it seems like a really small injustice.
7. I think at the core this post is pointless, because people either are going to believe in the conspiracy or not, and I can't overcome the full conspiracy paradigm. But I've been troubled over the past few days at just how hard it is to reconcile without ignoring it.

I studied the pathology of COVID-19 intensely. I know exactly how it kills people.

I made a flowchart describing many of its processes in detail back in late 2020, which I revised in April of the following year:

Spoiler: COVID-19 Interaction Map

I was actually approached by PhD biologists and bioinformatics experts over the chart. I've held forth on COVID-19 pathology in front of dozens of PhD biologists and virologists in Zoom meetings.

COVID-19 triggers deadly lipid peroxidation. This is why people with pre-existing endothelial dysfunction (obesity, diabetes, hypertension, old age, etc.) suffer from the disease so much more than anyone else. The lack of antioxidant substrates and the presence of chronic oxidative stress make COVID-19 substantially worse.

This point has essentially been proven by more recent studies.

A Multiple-Hit Hypothesis Involving Reactive Oxygen Species and Myeloperoxidase Explains Clinical Deterioration and Fatality in COVID-19

www.ijbs.com

Decreased availability of nitric oxide and hydrogen sulfide is a hallmark of COVID-19

Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) is involved in a global outbreak affecting millions of people who manifest a variety of symptoms. Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) caused by SARS-CoV-2 is increasingly associated with cardiovascular ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Severe Glutathione Deficiency, Oxidative Stress and Oxidant Damage in Adults Hospitalized with COVID-19: Implications for GlyNAC (Glycine and N-Acetylcysteine) Supplementation

Humanity is battling a respiratory pandemic pneumonia named COVID-19 which has resulted in millions of hospitalizations and deaths. COVID-19 exacerbations occur in waves that continually challenge healthcare systems globally. Therefore, there is an urgent need to understand all mechanisms by...

www.mdpi.com

It has also been known, this entire time, that SARS-CoV-2 attacks blood vessels.

COVID-19 is, in the end, an endothelial disease

Abstract. The vascular endothelium provides the crucial interface between the blood compartment and tissues, and displays a series of remarkable properties that

academic.oup.com

Basically, cells flood with calcium, a bunch of unliganded elemental iron ions are released into the bloodstream, and you end up with superoxide, hydrogen peroxide, and iron making hydroxyl radicals that rapidly oxidize the tissues. The buildup of oxidized lipids leads to autoantibody formation, ferroptosis, parthanatos, and inflammation. The inflammation summons more neutrophils. The neutrophils attack the site with more oxidants in a recursive feedback loop, et cetera.

Ventilators make this worse. The hypoxia of COVID-19 isn't from lung physiology. In fact, in many cases, "silent" hypoxia in COVID-19 starts setting in long before symptoms of pneumonia appear. The hypoxia is chemical in nature. Red blood cells are actually having their O2-binding sites crowded out by ROS, and heme iron is being stripped off and deposited in the bloodstream in unliganded form.

When they put people on ventilators, it feeds this cycle. The hypoxia leads to an accumulation of hypoxanthine and succinate as cells switch from aerobic to anaerobic metabolism. When they vent people, the cells switch back to aerobic metabolism, and as they do so, the cells break down the hypoxanthine and succinate and release superoxide radicals in the process. The name for this process is ischemia-reperfusion injury.

The proliferation of ROS actually makes glucocorticoid receptors insensitive to corticosteroids. Not to mention, Remdesivir, the main antiviral approved for use in COVID-19 patients, is toxic to the liver and kidneys. Also, Remdesivir isn't even the actual drug. Remdesivir metabolizes into GS-441524 in the liver. It is entirely possible to give someone GS-441524 with much lower toxicity than Remdesivir, but they don't do that because GS-441524 isn't as patentable and isn't as much of a cash cow for Gilead.

Gilead is protecting its drug patent instead of protecting COVID-19 patients

By refusing to test a promising drug for COVID-19, Gilead Sciences is accused of putting profit ahead of the public health.

www.marketwatch.com

All this is moot, however; by the time a patient is in the ICU with severe COVID-19, no antivirals will work on them, period. They've been symptomatic for over 8 days and their viral load is negligible. All of the damage is being caused by over-activated immune cells.

Remdesivir for Early COVID-19 Treatment of High-Risk Individuals Prior to or at Early Disease Onset—Lessons Learned

After more than one year of the COVID-19 pandemic, antiviral treatment options against SARS-CoV-2 are still severely limited. High hopes that had initially been placed on antiviral drugs like remdesivir have so far not been fulfilled. While individual case reports provide striking evidence for...

www.mdpi.com

In light of this, one wonders why Bing Liu died in a murder-suicide. Bing Liu, who was close to a breakthrough in understanding COVID-19's pathology. Bing Liu, who was an expert in iron metabolism and redox phenomena in the body.

Department Mourns the Passing of Dr. Bing Liu | Computational & Systems Biology

www.csb.pitt.edu

Bing was a prolific researcher. During his career he co-authored in 30+ publications, including four in 2020, in addition to a book. He played a critical role in the Bahar Lab and was the leader in systems biology research for Ivet and her lab. He single-handedly helped all of us as well as many collaborators including clinicians here and in other institutions, understand and quantitatively model many complex processes, including immune signaling events, apoptotic and ferroptotic cell death, autophagy, redox lipid programming, response to radiation and radiation therapy, systems (poly)pharmacological treatments. In recent years, he had three publications in Nature Chem Biol, three in Radiation Research, two in Scientific Reports, one in Science Signaling, one in International Journal of Molecular Sciences, and one in Frontiers in Pharmacology.

The IFR of COVID-19 in those below age 50 is basically negligible:

COVID Infection Fatality Rates by Sex and Age

A new paper attempts to create the best estimate for the COVID infection-fatality rate (IFR), which answers the question, "If I get sick, what is the chance that I will die?" Beware: The virus discriminates.

www.acsh.org

I saw a report of a 9-year-old girl who died of heart failure after receiving a COVID-19 vaccine. Ed Dowd, formerly of Blackrock, stated that 61,000 millennials died under suspicious circumstances last year when you look at excess mortality and insurance statistics. They're giving a cardiotoxic vaccine to small children and teens who don't need it.

There is something incredibly crooked going on, here.

 

[Bacle]

Saying this as nicely as possible, he looks a lot like a batshit insane conspiracy theorist. The drawing from a super wide set of foggy and largely uncorrelated evidence, the very elaborate and highly malicious conspiracy, the persecution complex.

That being said, one of the archtypical examples of a conspiracy theorist is the UFO nut, who was recently basically proven at least 75% right to nobody really noticing as the military in the US declassified a bunch of stuff that is really hard to explain. Just being a conspiracy theorist doesn't make you wrong.

I still actively think @*THASF* is wrong, but that's a different question.



Well, let me try and present the side I'm from, which is pro-vaccine.

1. Lots of things made of poisons or potential poisons are used in just about everything. I don't take the argument that it's directly harmful because of what it's made of particularly seriously. It's a damn tiny jab optimized to teach an immune system how to fight. I'd need a lot more evidence to believe it's actually worse than covid.
2. If it was even a lot better than covid, we'd be dealing with a pretty massive public health crisis I think would be visible because covid is really that awful. The risks for an average person getting covid are small, but the huge pile up of people who have worse reactions than usual lead to a lot of problems. See how a poorly vaccinated area like Hong Kong is doing right now. Even assuming there's a conspiracy to cover up side effects, which I think is actually plausible, I don't think it's plausible it's worse on average than covid itself is.
3. The long term risks of covid vaccination and the unproven tech, yeah, that's an issue. My guess is that the long term risks of the jab are a lot lower than the long term risks of random crazy bat virus, see "long covid" and concerns about long term damage to lungs. My intuition about "crazy Chinese bat virus" vs "random new-fangled tech gizmo" lean towards fearing the bat virus more.
4. There might, might be an over-zealousness to getting healthy young people vaccinated, if the side effects are notably worse than is generally admitted. The problem here is that a lot of why we want vaccination isn't "individual outcome" but "group outcome." More vaccinated populations spread the virus slower, have less of a chance for it to mutate, and protect the especially vulnerable to covid a lot better than unvaccinated ones. It might be against many individual's interests to be vaccinated while still a good idea to get everyone vaccinated on average, and there's a good chance of "tragedy of the commons" being in place if the side effects aren't implausibly bad.
5. I don't think this logic is particularly impacted even if it was a bio-weapon lab leak, which I still consider really implausible. The new-fangled vacccines seem to work really well at every stage of making the virus less harmful and there's a lot of competition with more traditional types of vaccines to see what actually stops covid, and it seems older types of vaccines just don't work as well based on public health statistics. If Sputnik or Sinovax was working better I'd imagine absolutely insufferable talk about it to have gone on for like a year now, but it really doesn't seem that way. Note that China's still using lockdowns despite their usage of an old style of domestically produced vaccine which I don't think anyone's arguing has ties to the American bioweapon stuff.
6. I am uncomfortable with forced vaccination, and admit it is being forced on people. I consider it a difficult decision because the community impacts of vaccination are so large, and think the weight of history points to this being well established as a thing states do that we just kind of forgot about due to the lack of recent epidemics. Still, coming from the perspective that vaccines are probably safe and effective my sympathy for antivaxxers is honestly pretty low in "stack up everyone based on how bad I feel for them" terms. Individual stories can get to me, but it seems like a really small injustice.
7. I think at the core this post is pointless, because people either are going to believe in the conspiracy or not, and I can't overcome the full conspiracy paradigm. But I've been troubled over the past few days at just how hard it is to reconcile without ignoring it.

The virus/vax combo has everal possibilities for what level of conspiracy we are talking about.

At the most benign and plausible, it's a clusterfuck of both attempting to circumvent US domestic law by off-shoring risky research to a 'partner' in China, when even fucking DARPA didn't think it was worth the risk, and with no OSHA involved to monitor lab conditions and research, which leaked out and sent a lot of people in power into one of two modes; either they tried to cover their ass, or they decided they couldn't let a good crisis go to waste and saw profit oppurunities in the biomedical sector. The bad vax reactions are something that was shown in the clinical trials, and was also why the companies fought to keep the documents secret for 75 years and then slow roll the release.

And to top it all off, it happened in an election year, so everything that happened would be politicized. It's just spiraled from there.

The virus is endemic now, no vax is going to fix it, the mRNA stuff is untested, and the baseline virus can be dealt more effectively with by most people, even the immune compromised, via proper vitamens and maybe ivermectin if they have serious issues. Ivermectin itself seems to act as a profalactic against the virus even taking hold, and is already proven against malaria. Also, odd thing, seems people in Africa who've had and recovered from malaria are almost completely immune to the Wuhan Flu (I call it that the same reason we call West Nile by it's name; it's where it started/localized) it's mutations are such that it is getting less deadly over time, and will likely blend in with the regular seasonal flu if we just stopped testing for it specifically.

The other reason they are trying to coerce the vax as much as possible is to remove the unvax'd 'control group' to hide any long term side effect amid a general uptick in certain diseases. If say, the vax causes soft tissue cancers or organ failures/dmage, for example, it also creates a long term customer base for pharma corps specializing in medications against those issues, does it not? And does not concern over 'public health', and using what amount to 'plague laws' to circumvent Constitutional freedoms and rights via 'mandates' and travel/movement restrictions with no sunset clause or time limits, act as a great excuse to strip away even more freedoms and rights, just like Bush Jr's Patriot Act.

I have not taken the Wuhan Flu vax or any of it's boosters, because I likely had it and recovered from it in the early spring of 2020 when cases first started appearing, and am naturally immune already. When we had no idea how far it had actually spread, I was likely infected by a coworker who came in coughing all over the breakroom because he wouldn't take time off to let his symptoms abate before coming back to work. We had publicly known case not long after that. I isolated myself as best as possible for a week, despite my boss getting pissed that the fever and symptoms were taking so long to abate. I had had my flu shot that year, and this flu still knocked me on my ass like nothing had in years, but vit c, advil, and decongestants were all I ended up needing.

Understand I came from a very hard-D house hold and understand how difficult it is to believe this and how world shattering it can be to someone's perception of the world and our government and pharma groups. However the evidence just keeps mounting, and the insurance agents/actuaries and mortuaries diligent book-keeping and analytics has caught them in the act, while whistleblowers have been surfacing regularly with more and more corroborating evidence from multiple places in the web of connections.

I believed all the hype around the virus and vax, right up till George Floyd was killed; then the double standard of left vs right wing protests and the actions/lack of actions by certain health and state authorities caused the mask to slip.

You should read Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six, and then look over what has happened and what THASF is saying. Or go watch that old show Firefly and it's movie Serenity. When you understand the lessons of the Phoenix Group and Miranda, you will understand the mindsets of the people who could perpetrate a conspiracy on the scale needed.

 

[WyldCard4]

The virus is endemic now, no vax is going to fix it, the mRNA stuff is untested, and the baseline virus can be dealt more effectively with by most people, even the immune compromised, via proper vitamens and maybe ivermectin if they have serious issues. Ivermectin itself seems to act as a profalactic against the virus even taking hold, and is already proven against malaria. Also, odd thing, seems people in Africa who've had and recovered from malaria are almost completely immune to the Wuhan Flu (I call it that the same reason we call West Nile by it's name; it's where it started/localized) it's mutations are such that it is getting less deadly over time, and will likely blend in with the regular seasonal flu if we just stopped testing for it specifically.

So most of this fits in with my stuff I really don't want to discuss because well, it's really hard, but ivermectin surprises me as a thing you came out in favor of.

Basically my question is why isn't it in widespread usage in places like China or South Korea, which are imposing hugely expensive lock downs instead of just using your vitamin and ivermectin strategy? It can't be beyond their financial capabilities if they took it seriously, and their strategy seems to have done little but delay the virus's final impacts rather than prevent it from spreading, so why are countries with completely different health authorities and absolutely no attachment to our political fights not using this strategy to great success? Why is Paxlovid and molnupiravir and monoclonal antibodies all being taken seriously, but not ivermectin?

I believed all the hype around the virus and vax, right up till George Floyd was killed; then the double standard of left vs right wing protests and the actions/lack of actions by certain health and state authorities caused the mask to slip.

I think this was a huge mistake and problem as well. I didn't protest and thought the protests were really stupid as well, and they seem to have spread a lot of covid. I don't think that was excusable, just maybe politically necessary for Democrats, which is not an excuse for treating it so differently.

As for the rest. Well, I've always been a Democrat, grown up in a Democratic household, plugged into mainstream media, but try to follow specific counter-narratives to keep my mind open. My general reaction to the conspiracy argument:

-There's a lot of hearsay and conjecture and theorizing, which is evidence, but not strong evidence.
-There are a lot of fairly anti-establishment people I follow, like libertarians and rationalists, who I think would be jumping over this if the evidence for a conspiracy was good, but I don't see that, when I do see them taking things seriously that are otherwise highly unpopular, like for example the UFO tapes I mentioned that got released a few years back.
-There is a growing set of people who might be whistleblowers, but I don't think this is particularly strong evidence by itself. I'd expect fake whistleblowers to exist even without a real conspiracy, as demand for such people is so high and some people who are mistaken, lying, or delusional would obviously pop up anyway.
-The web aspect of the conspiracy being presented by @*THASF* is really sketchy to me. I can find individual parts plausible if not likely, but seeing it as a major conspiracy by anyone who the right wing doesn't particularly like much in the current zeitgeist seems a lot more like motivated reasoning to me. Fauci, maybe, but as I said before, Hunter Biden as a henchman in it stretches my credulity immensely. The seeming lack of name recognition Republicans in on it during a Republican administration also strikes me as suspicious, as it'd require at least a somewhat bipartisan coalition to hide so much evidence. It seems most of the conservatives Trump marginalized (fiscal conservatives, national security establishment, parts of the business community) and long marginalized groups (communists, libertarians) are all pretty opposed to most of the conspiracy despite long anti-democrat motivations while only the populist groups, which I do not trust, seem to be all in on the various conspiracy theories. It seems much more defined by political coalitions than groups which strike me as likely to latch onto the truth if it was unpopular but well supported.

Snip

So, I'm not discounting all of this. However:

-61,000 people dying of mysterious circumstances sounds bad, but drawing the conclusion it was the vaccine is incredibly sketchy to me. I also would question how many people in high risk groups you mentioned were saved by the vaccine spread, as it does seem to reduce symptom severity and transmission, make people leave the hospital instead of die in it, and various other things I don't think you're actively questioning. I think a coverup of some side effects is possible, but even taking everything you're saying as true I don't think it directly leads to the vaccine being counter-productive. Plenty of Millennials are for example, obese, so would be in higher risk groups, so "healthy young people" gets to be a much smaller slice then it sounds.
-I'd also question the "flatten the curve" elements of vaccines which seem to be ignored here as they decrease severity and hospitalization. It seems like resources to take care of all medical problems are consumed like mad due to covid, which might also explain some of the excess mortality you mentioned. Just relieving that pressure and preventing everyone from getting sick at the same time seem like major benefits you aren't addressing.
-The specific problems of ventilators and medicines, sure, no strong argument there. Didn't we generally stop ventilation after a while anyway because we realized it wasn't working well? I can totally believe we're prescribing the wrong more expensive medication to covid patients for financial reasons, but once again I don't think that feeds well into the broader argument being made.

 

[Bacle]

So most of this fits in with my stuff I really don't want to discuss because well, it's really hard, but ivermectin surprises me as a thing you came out in favor of.

Basically my question is why isn't it in widespread usage in places like China or South Korea, which are imposing hugely expensive lock downs instead of just using your vitamin and ivermectin strategy? It can't be beyond their financial capabilities if they took it seriously, and their strategy seems to have done little but delay the virus's final impacts rather than prevent it from spreading, so why are countries with completely different health authorities and absolutely no attachment to our political fights not using this strategy to great success? Why is Paxlovid and molnupiravir and monoclonal antibodies all being taken seriously, but not ivermectin?



I think this was a huge mistake and problem as well. I didn't protest and thought the protests were really stupid as well, and they seem to have spread a lot of covid. I don't think that was excusable, just maybe politically necessary for Democrats, which is not an excuse for treating it so differently.

As for the rest. Well, I've always been a Democrat, grown up in a Democratic household, plugged into mainstream media, but try to follow specific counter-narratives to keep my mind open. My general reaction to the conspiracy argument:

-There's a lot of hearsay and conjecture and theorizing, which is evidence, but not strong evidence.
-There are a lot of fairly anti-establishment people I follow, like libertarians and rationalists, who I think would be jumping over this if the evidence for a conspiracy was good, but I don't see that, when I do see them taking things seriously that are otherwise highly unpopular, like for example the UFO tapes I mentioned that got released a few years back.
-There is a growing set of people who might be whistleblowers, but I don't think this is particularly strong evidence by itself. I'd expect fake whistleblowers to exist even without a real conspiracy, as demand for such people is so high and some people who are mistaken, lying, or delusional would obviously pop up anyway.
-The web aspect of the conspiracy being presented by @*THASF* is really sketchy to me. I can find individual parts plausible if not likely, but seeing it as a major conspiracy by anyone who the right wing doesn't particularly like much in the current zeitgeist seems a lot more like motivated reasoning to me. Fauci, maybe, but as I said before, Hunter Biden as a henchman in it stretches my credulity immensely. The seeming lack of name recognition Republicans in on it during a Republican administration also strikes me as suspicious, as it'd require at least a somewhat bipartisan coalition to hide so much evidence. It seems most of the conservatives Trump marginalized (fiscal conservatives, national security establishment, parts of the business community) and long marginalized groups (communists, libertarians) are all pretty opposed to most of the conspiracy despite long anti-democrat motivations while only the populist groups, which I do not trust, seem to be all in on the various conspiracy theories. It seems much more defined by political coalitions than groups which strike me as likely to latch onto the truth if it was unpopular but well supported.

I'm going to let THASF handle a lot of these questions, because frankly without his work I wouldn't have seen the web either. And he may disagree with some of my assessments as well.

And as you've said, I do support Ivermectin because it fucking works at both reducing the spread, is a proven and safe medicine for other virus's/parasites, and it's cheap because it's a generic.

And the money is what all this comes together, and where the conspiracy lies; in simple greed take to a whole new level, augmented by 'don't let a crisis go to waste' attitude on the Woke Left.

A cheap generic med, instead of some fancy new mRNA vax that is pushed on everyone with massively coercive measures, doesn't have the profit margins that come with Emergency Use Authorization and near monopoly on treatment it afford. Remdesivir does work, if given in the first 3 days after symptoms appear, but after that is useless and actually starts causing kidney damage. Hydrocloiqine also works, however people have done some stupid things with it because they didn't dose it correctly when they tried to do it without a docs help. That the vax's, and how their side effects are being ignored by those in power, is also why if Trump's run in 2024, I'd only vote for him grudgingly; frankly I think his ego and inability to admit fault are massive flaws that hindered his presidency. He also doesn't have great skills for picking or trusting the right people when it's not dealing with contractors he can lord over, and ignores any real mention of side effects from 'his' vax's. The social control aspect is another whole ballgame, but I won't pull it in for this, because it would drag this post on for much longer wall of text.

As well, I need to point out most people have not seen THASF's work, or followed whistleblowers from inside China, for months/years now. I tried sharing some of the stuff via Facebook that THASF found here, and most of it was deleted without notifying me of it, even on my own profile I could no longer see it, and was actually punished for daring to say Ivermectin is effective at treating the Wuhan Flu. I saw a lot of this slowly build like an ant hill in bits and pieces of '...no way, seriously' and 'what the hell' as I dealt with political turmoil, you're getting it as a still rising mountain range of horrors that have implications rather dire for trust in society and our future. Which is why I do not begrudge you your current disbelief; if I was coming to see all this now without prior context and experience to back it up, I wouldn't believe it either.

Edit: Also, the reason you don't see China using it is because the CCP's 'Zero Covid' strategy would be rendered moot, and that would make the CCP lose face with it's own people.

As for India, it's because the general lack of sanitation in India made it much hard to fight the virus to begin with, and Ivermectin+vitamens doesn't help a whole lot in places with human shit covering a lot of streets and barely any modern sewage treatment regimes (even China is better than India in this regard).

 

[WyldCard4]

Which is why I do not begrudge you your current disbelief; if I was coming to see all this now without prior context and experience to back it up, I wouldn't believe it either.

So that's a core element for me. I don't have the prior context build up, and, to risk being insulting, I don't entirely trust @*THASF*. Not in the sense I think he's being deceptive, but I think a sincere person could come to his beliefs without being correct due to motivated reasoning or being mistaken.

Basically, I'm being asked to trust @*THASF* over a very wide variety of sources I've followed and respected for a hell of a lot longer. Bryan Caplan, Tyler Cohen, Peter Zeihan, Megan McArdle, Noah Smith, Slate Star Codex/Scott Alexander, even arguably someone like Steve Sailer. I'd expect a lot more questioning in the generally libertarian, center right, or rationalist spheres on at least a few of these things, particularly the efficacy of ivermectin, if it was true. I've known @*THASF* for a while too, and I remember him having strange plans and theories long before covid/Wuhan Flu was a thing. I respect his technical insight on specific issues where he's clearly well informed, but I have trouble going with him as a primary source, especially as most other sources for the web existing seem actively very untrustworthy in the "raid pizza joints for sex offenders in the basement of a pizza joint without a basement" tier.

I think I am trying unusually hard to give this all the benefit of the doubt, but I really don't see any smoking guns here that make me sit back and go "wow, I really need to do more research and see if that's true." The closest to this is the furin cleavage thing, which is so far out of my experience I doubt my ability to research it effectively.

Edit: Also, the reason you don't see China using it is because the CCP's 'Zero Covid' strategy would be rendered moot, and that would make the CCP lose face with it's own people.

As for India, it's because the general lack of sanitation in India made it much hard to fight the virus to begin with, and Ivermectin+vitamens doesn't help a whole lot in places with human shit covering a lot of streets and barely any modern sewage treatment regimes (even China is better than India in this regard).

I did bring up South Korea, which is experiencing the pandemic without a zero covid plan to my knowledge, is losing more people than the US has, and has generally been highly technocratic, good at suppressing the pandemic for a long time, and seems pretty divorced from the particulars of our cultural, political, and corporate battles that might influence them against ivermectin. Discounting China and India also brings up Japan, which really wanted to break covid for their Olympics but had a lot of trouble doing so.

This isn't to entirely discount ivermectin, but my following contrarian spheres gives me a very dim view of that in particular as "probably doesn't work, wish it did" based on evidence.

Ivermectin: Much More Than You Wanted To Know

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Highlights From The Comments On Ivermectin

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