United States Biden administration policies and actions - megathread

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mrttao

mrttao

Well-known member
Sobek said:
The Biden Strategy now to push for Student Loan Forgiveness is to... Shame Republicans opposing it who got the free debt wipe.



Amazing. I love the $100% real engagement by 101% real people all posting Dark Brandon memes. And of course they don't understand at all how this point not only answers nothing but also doesn't work as a "no u".

Also I just noticed this, but when browsing twitter it always pesters me to make a account to continue browsing when I look at replies... But it doesn't when I am looking at the White House replies...
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Honestly the best reply to this is
"hey, you used to be able to get unlimited student loan forgiveness if you were poor via bankrupcy until Biden personally lead the charge to make student loans exempt from bankrupcy laws. So first he took it away, and now he is doling out a highly limited replacement of 10k and expects us to say thank you"
 
History Learner

History Learner

Well-known member
Battlegrinder said:
I've yet to see any economist go out and claim this is actually good, all of them, including multiple democrats and former economic advisors to democrat officials, have said its very likely going to make the problem worse.
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You need to be reading more on economics then, because the entire Keynesian School of Economics is based on this. You want consumer spending, as much as you can without lots of unsustainable debt, and especially in economic downturns. Seriously, this was basically the core basis of Keynes.

No it isn't, this a totally different thing. "We're pausing repayment on this, but you will still have to pay it back eventually" is going to have a very different response compared to "everyone else has to pay this now, you can go ahead and spend as you want without this concern".
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No it's not and I challenge you to cite data that shows they weren't already doing the latter bit; most people were already spending the "extra" disposable income over the last past two years during the payment pause. The debt itself was already created when the loan was first issued too; this changes absolutely nothing beyond formalizing the existing situation for many.
 
C

Cherico

Well-known member
History Learner said:
You need to be reading more on economics then, because the entire Keynesian School of Economics is based on this. You want consumer spending, as much as you can without lots of unsustainable debt, and especially in economic downturns. Seriously, this was basically the core basis of Keynes.



No it's not and I challenge you to cite data that shows they weren't already doing the latter bit; most people were already spending the "extra" disposable income over the last past two years during the payment pause. The debt itself was already created when the loan was first issued too; this changes absolutely nothing beyond formalizing the existing situation for many.
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the core of keynesian economics is spend during the bad times and pay back your debts during the good.

We have not focused on paying back the debts.
 
History Learner

History Learner

Well-known member
Cherico said:
the core of keynesian economics is spend during the bad times and pay back your debts during the good.

We have not focused on paying back the debts.
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Not exactly, at least in this case:

During the slump of the 1930s, John Maynard Keynes identified something known as the paradox of thrift. Saving more by paying off debts might make good sense for an individual, Keynes said, but it would be bad news for the economy if everybody decided to save at once, since that would lead to a lower level of demand.​
 
C

Cherico

Well-known member
History Learner said:
Not exactly, at least in this case:

During the slump of the 1930s, John Maynard Keynes identified something known as the paradox of thrift. Saving more by paying off debts might make good sense for an individual, Keynes said, but it would be bad news for the economy if everybody decided to save at once, since that would lead to a lower level of demand.​
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the thing is even he realized that when the good times come back you should pay it down lower because eventally you get to the point where no ones willing to lend money to you because everyone realizes there is no way in hell you can pay it off and you will have to default.

I think a lot of countries will have no choice but to default in our lifetime, including some very wealthy ones.
 
History Learner

History Learner

Well-known member
Cherico said:
the thing is even he realized that when the good times come back you should pay it down lower because eventally you get to the point where no ones willing to lend money to you because everyone realizes there is no way in hell you can pay it off and you will have to default.

I think a lot of countries will have no choice but to default in our lifetime, including some very wealthy ones.
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The difference being the lender in this case being the United States government in terms of the debt being forgiven, rather than private lenders. Student loan debt, federally held, is the only debt that cannot be discharged in bankruptcy proceedings.
 
C

Cherico

Well-known member
History Learner said:
The difference being the lender in this case being the United States government in terms of the debt being forgiven, rather than private lenders. Student loan debt, federally held, is the only debt that cannot be discharged in bankruptcy proceedings.
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I think doing that was one of bidens bigger mistakes.

His effort to make student loans immune to bankruptcy really screwed a lot of people and helped make the rise of college debt even worse.
 
History Learner

History Learner

Well-known member
Cherico said:
I think doing that was one of bidens bigger mistakes.

His effort to make student loans immune to bankruptcy really screwed a lot of people and helped make the rise of college debt even worse.
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Specific to the here and now, though, we're not really increasing the debt and going forward the continued discretionary spending of previous loan holders will be beneficial to the wider economy. Instead of making payments on their student loans, they'll be making payments on cars, houses, etc. I do believe, as a general issue, we need wider reform to the college system in America and that this should be viewed as a measure of stabilizing the existing situation.
 
Bacle

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder


Yet another example of why no one should think the GOP leadership actually gives a fuck what it's base thinks or wants. Deficits are good so long as they benefit the military, but if they support American's at home it's horrible and unjust. The GOP railing against student loan forgiveness is another instance of the GOP shooting itself in the foot to appease Boomer-cons.
 
Bigking321

Bigking321

Well-known member
Not... really.

The base that hates the big budgets also hates student loan forgiveness.

It's taking debt from a specific portion of the population and giving it to everyone. It's a horrible idea.

The Republican uniparty leaders are lying hypocrites for sure but them opposing student loan forgiveness is what they should be doing.

Now what they could do is stop the interest on student loans. If you get a student loan you have to pay it back with a set amount added on. Like 10-20 percent of the loan. But that's it. No insane interest rate that makes people end up paying insane amounts more over time.

No forgiven debts but it makes paying them off much much much easier.
 
History Learner

History Learner

Well-known member
Bacle said:


Yet another example of why no one should think the GOP leadership actually gives a fuck what it's base thinks or wants. Deficits are good so long as they benefit the military, but if they support American's at home it's horrible and unjust. The GOP railing against student loan forgiveness is another instance of the GOP shooting itself in the foot to appease Boomer-cons.
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Beat you to it by a couple of hours in posting that, but I endorse this entirely.
 
Bacle

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Bigking321 said:
Not... really.

The base that hates the big budgets also hates student loan forgiveness.

It's taking debt from a specific portion of the population and giving it to everyone. It's a horrible idea.

The Republican uniparty leaders are lying hypocrites for sure but them opposing student loan forgiveness is what they should be doing.

Now what they could do is stop the interest on student loans. If you get a student loan you have to pay it back with a set amount added on. Like 10-20 percent of the loan. But that's it. No insane interest rate that makes people end up paying insane amounts more over time.

No forgiven debts but it makes paying them off much much much easier.
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You can have a balanced budget, or a defense budget.

Why should the US money printer only benefit the military, instead of the average college student?

Opposition to loan forgiveness won't play well with anyone outside the hardcore fiscal conservatives and radical libertarians, and will remind everyone the GOP will deficit spend for the DoD till the sun burns out, but won't lift a finger for many emerging domestic economic issues.
 
Bigking321

Bigking321

Well-known member
Bacle said:
You can have a balanced budget, or a defense budget.
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That's kinda a false dichotomy. How about a smaller less wasteful budget. Downsizing redundant government organizations or the government in general. Heck, downsizing the military if done intelligently is fine. A sane tax policy and perhaps getting rid of a really screwed up federal reserve.

There are tons of options.

I'm not sure why you think the military spending is the big problem.

A problem, sure. Why not.

But I'd put government bloat and corruption waaaaaay higher on the list of problems with the budget.
 
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