I am just going to point out if Miley had done this 31 years ago. His ass would have been dragged out of the Pentagon in irons. They did not tolerate that shit back during the Cold War.
United States Biden administration policies and actions - megathread
- Thread starter Tyzuris
- Start date
The military's desire to remain apolitical, while at the same time their upper echelon's are effectively politicians playing soldier who have more in common with Harvard faculty than the troops they command, makes all the statements about how they have to use the USMJ to keep politics out of the military is such wonderful doublethink.
It's about keeping the political execption for high ranking officers who have to play politics, and those lower ranking ones with the 'right' views.
It's about keeping the political execption for high ranking officers who have to play politics, and those lower ranking ones with the 'right' views.
Yes and no,
It probably happened plenty back then, media just didn't spread as fast. Remeber the Iran Contra deal?
Having been told by an officer above me, the head of the military are going against the way the military in the US is set up. They are supposed to remain apolitical, and because they aren't, they have a lot of everyone below them pissed.
That's a nice ideal, one that is forced on the rank and file by the USMJ.
But anyone who's made a career of the military has had to know how to play politics.
At a certain point those political regs become more...'guidelines' as Capt Barbarossa would put it, and at a higher level they are effectively ignored as long as you say the right things in front of the cameras.
I have no desire to buy into the polite fiction that the officer tracks in the military are not part of the political machine of DC and take part in it to help get promotions and after-service jobs.
And this is why I will not take anything you say on military issues seriously.
Lower enlisted wont be court martialed for calling out their command.
We just have no power in our words. We outnumber them and can use that to defend our choices. Like how my oath is to the constitution first and foremost, before anything else.
Sobek
Disgusting Scalie
Exactly. When Generals and Admirals are rubbing shoulders with politicians while openly making inflammatory political statements, sometimes against the acting Commander in Chief, it is excused and brushed off. But when Johnny E3 of the US Army says the higher ups fucked up not giving him and his colleges on the ground intel and supplies it's dangerous and out of line.
Yeah I know, but just those talks aren't gonna do anything sadly. It is beginning to sound like the USA desperately needs to import some of the Japanese Gekokujō when it comes to enforcing the rules that are supposed to be universal. Maybe not quite as radically as the Japanese have historically done it, but maybe something like a wide range protest.
Actually no it did not. You have to remember back during the Cold War they took talking to the Soviets very seriously. And if a General dared to tell the Soviets the same thing Miliey did to the CCP that was considered treason. High Treason. And Iran Contra had Reagans figure prints all over it. But that has been memory holed at large by the General Public. And is not the same as what Miley did.
Have you considered maybe I know enough about the military, and have a different context, to just reach different conclusions than you?
Because I know the enlisted won't be court martialed for it.
But how many of those who speak out like that about senior leadership and POTUS, in a way that gets media attention like Scheller did, do not suffer for it when it comes time for promotions? Or get NJPs for petty shit afterwards in retaliation?
You keep trying to go the dodge route of trying to ignore the inherent contradictions in how the USMJ is applied to things like this, and keep operating of an ideal state situation/mentality instead of what we have as the situation currently.
A Batt Commander in the Marines is not someone who can be brushed off for this in the current political climate, because he demanded something that is truly anathema to DC; accountability to the people. Both the civies the politicans in DC serve and military those politicans command want accountability when there is a fuck up at the top levels on the scale of A-stan, and both deserve it.
Johnny E3 can say it and get away with it.
A LTC in a commanding position on the other hand has UCMJ rules about it.
NCOs have more leeway in that regard.
A junior enlisted would just get non judicial punishment, so extra duty or something if the officer is in his chain.
Because eventually those in charge won't be in charge anymore, and enforcing rules is hard to do out in the open on people high up.
Enlisted won't get punished if they spoke out like him because the NCO in charge of the enlisted could say I won't do that.
Officers have a lot diffrent rules, and if the enlisted soldier is never brought to an article 15 or 32, it won't effect his promotion to anything above SSG.
Look at Angry Cops, he is basically a permanent SSG, and has helped call out senior leaders, both enlisted and officers, and his command backed him over the others.
Enlisted are allowed diffrent rules to follow.
Angry Cops, Nicky MTGV, etc etc.
Plenty of popular military enlisted are talking about it. Some VERY well known, like Angry Cops.
The thing is, the likely hood for a junior enlisted or a low level NCO (up to SSG) to be punished in any way is highly unlikely.
That is what you seem to fail to understand. The Marine LTC knew this is what would happen. He knew he was breaking UCMJ doing it.
In order for those up high, it takes time and effort that isn't going to be public.
bintananth
behind a desk
They can't be completely apolitical. Everyone holding the rank of O-4 (Major or Lieutenant Commander) or higher been approved by the Senate (it's O-6 for reservists).
EDIT: If Congress wanted to they could require Senate approval for everyone accepted to OCS or a Service Academy because - in theory - one of them could suddenly be the highest ranking member of the US military, oh, right about now, if things go horribly sideways.
Last edited:
Yes they can be.
I know they are approved by senate there are still hundreds and they can remain apolitcal all they want.
It is if they choose too or not.
A general can make it to the top without being political. They ar eusually the best that do.
Terthna
Professional Lurker
No; the unjust thing is that he wasn't punished, and this guy was. Punishing one and not the other is proof positive that the military does tolerate such behavior; so long as it's done by the right people, with the right connections.
Yes and no.
Again, the mikitary isn't going to make public "WE ARE COURT MARTIALING MILLEY!" because it likes to keep its things under wraps.
We don't know what they are doing. Call for resignations?
He has no one but the SECARM and SECDEF above him, and it is up to them to decide, unless enough lowers can find a way to bypass that
Terthna
Professional Lurker
If that were true, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
It lieks to TRY to keep things under wraps
Terthna
Professional Lurker
Only when it suits them it seems.
No.
For everything. People leak what they hear.
We have a saying.
The best news network in the military is the PNN.
Private News Network.
We will know things before officers. Because there is always a junior enlisted somewhere
When I was in we called it the Corporal Mafia.
E4 mafia became specialist mafia