United States Biden administration policies and actions - megathread

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Bassoe said:
That's my point. Your system is yielding identical results. Change your system so it doesn't do that or get a new bogeyman since saying, 'support our system or X will happen to you' doesn't work if under your system X is already happening to you.
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Does it mean ride sharing apps and Air BnB? Two things that allow you to make money by doing it and don't force you to do it for free?
 
Bassoe said:
With respect, get some new material.

Traditionally, the arguments against communism were 'it'll make you into a serf with no rights whose entire labor surplus is absorbed merely to break even'. These were entirely valid arguments, insofar as communism actually did those things. However, nowadays, you'd be just as likely to find the ideology of 'all property will be held in common by a few unelected tyrants who dole it out to peasants so the peasants can use it to labor for said tyrants, while said peasants are banned from using it for thoughtcrimes, which leads to the peasants being kicked out of society as a whole and starving' advocated for by neoliberal corporatists as communists. The only difference between the society Schwab and his buddies want and hardcore communism being that under communism, bourgeoisie parasites like Schwab would be rounded up and shot and right now, that's looking like a real point in communism's favor. If your ideology has produced identical results to those you use as a bogeyman to demonize anyone against it, why should people follow it?
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You know, I do have problems with massive corporations buying up property to lord over, and I have problems with mega corps having no power.

But King Arts was talking about literally taking people's property, not just mega corps but single rental owners too, and redistributing that around.

Sounds pretty commie to me.
 
Rocinante said:
But King Arts was talking about literally taking people's property, not just mega corps but single rental owners too, and redistributing that around.
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What else do you call a deliberately induced economic crash, in which all businesses but those large enough to bribe the state to declare them 'essential' are forcibly shut down until 99% of the population runs out of money and has to sell all their assets/property to the 1% merely to survive?
 
Bassoe said:
What else do you call a deliberately induced economic crash, in which all businesses but those large enough to bribe the state to declare them 'essential' are forcibly shut down until 99% of the population runs out of money and has to sell all their assets/property to the 1% merely to survive?
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It's sure as hell not free market economics.

Sounds a lot more like authoritarianism and totalitarianism to me.
 
The point is, nobody likes being under authoritarianism. Whatever they're calling it, whatever philosophical basis they're using, it fucking sucks. Too much power in the hands of an elite few always leads to tyranny. Some systems make it far easier for the elites to gain absolute power than others. Period.

Regardless, we are in a situation where every good thing that has come out of the American Revolution and Western Civilization itself is threatened with destruction by the people who are supposed to be its caretakers. They instead pillage and plunder wealth with no care for the consequences. They feel they deserve to rule, and treat us as scum. They will use anyone as pawns, cross any boundary, sacrifice anything to hold onto power. One political party is completely under their control, another is pretty much their neutered opposition-Slowing, not stopping, this corruption.

This is where we are. Pointless bickering will not help.
 
Something something supermarkets throwing moldy bread away instead of serving them at soup kitchens is worse than the Gulag bread lines something something.
 
Bassoe said:
"That wasn't real capitalism" whenever things start going wrong and authoritarians taking over is just as stupid an argument as "that wasn't real communism" in the same situations.
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No. It is not the same at all.

Not in the least because this is the result of explicitely anti-capitolist leaders gettign elected and having their anti-capitalist policies put in place.
 
Capitalism, communism. Its all just ism's. That said there is something to be said for not pretending to give a fuck about what other people do or what happens to them. Because either than ego strocking does nothing and generally makes things worse.

This might come as a shocker but maybe most people whether bourgeoisie or proletariat generally have their own interests at heart irregardless of how that affects people they don't know as opposed to some 'common good' hockum talking heads try to convince you others actually care about more than you do that is to say as more than some socially conformist ego trip.
 
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Doomsought said:
No. It is not the same at all.

Not in the least because this is the result of explicitely anti-capitolist leaders gettign elected and having their anti-capitalist policies put in place.
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On the one hand yes, that's now how capitalist principles work. On the other hand if capitalism unerringly heads in that direction it's still a consequence of capitalism that needs to be addressed.

In point of fact, I don't think that capitalism does so, but rather it's the nature of businesses to try to get any advantage they can. This inevitably leads them to pressure the government, which by nature is always a monopoly, to grant themselves greater power and advantage over the competition and reduce the free market. The answer is the legitimacy of the government so that its actions are respected and clear, and understandable and fair rule of law so that when the government is the bad actor it can be taken to task and fixed before it loses legitimacy and sparks a revolution.
 
Abhishekm said:
Capitalism, communism. Its all just ism's. That said there is something to be said for not pretending to give a fuck about what other people do or what happens to them. Because either than ego strocking does nothing and generally makes things worse.
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No, it is not just ego stocking. Principles matter.

Society is not just built from people existing in one place, it is formed for their relationships and the ideas that unite them. Society is literally built out of social constructs, like language and laws. They constructs have real results as the outcome of a society emerges directly from them. In order to have a successful and prosperous society people need principles and role models to aspire to. Without aspiration, all that is left is barbarism
 
Bear with me here but maybe just maybe Capitalism is a buzzword. Just as much as Socialism. I know I know buzzwords are simpler because really who wants to use more than one word to define their concepts or beliefs.

Doomsought said:
No, it is not just ego stocking. Principles matter.
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Whats that Christian saying 'charity is not for the agrandisment of the self but for others' or something like that? That sound anything like most of the 'morality' crap you see these days on any side? Bear with me here but maybe most of the stuff you see from people isn't 'enlightened self-actualization' derived morality as much as it is just every Dick and Karen stroking their egos off every chance they get.

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9 out of 10 no one proportion something does so for any reason other than it servers some purpose for them. Generally their ego through self delusion or their greed through some tangible benefit they can obtain from it.
 
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Bassoe said:
"That wasn't real capitalism" whenever things start going wrong and authoritarians taking over is just as stupid an argument as "that wasn't real communism" in the same situations.
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False equivalency.

When the government was smaller, less coercive, engaged in less onerous regulation, and less wealth redistribution, it was easier to get a small business going, easier to grow, and easier to 'get ahead' or 'move up in the world.'

As these things have changed, IE the nation has become less of a laissez faire system, these things have become more difficult. It's fair to call it 'not real capitalism,' when the legal system and culture is literally moving away from free markets, and more towards socialism.

If you want to criticize failed free market systems, at least pick one where it's because the government was so weak that things fell to de-facto anarchy, rather than the other way around.
 
Bassoe said:
"That wasn't real capitalism" whenever things start going wrong and authoritarians taking over is just as stupid an argument as "that wasn't real communism" in the same situations.
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The authoritarian measures we have been seeing over the last 18 months, mostly in the name of protecting us from covid, is not free market capitalism.

We watched an authoritarian takeover happen, and we watched the biggest transfer of wealth from the middle class to the upper elite in history.

This was at the hands of anticapitalist leaders.

This isn't capitalism. This isn't a case of "not real capitalism," either. Our country has been taken over. We are living in an essentially an authoritarian corporate oligarchy.

No, it's not much better than Communism at this point.

This isn't a "not real capitalism," situation because that requires calling us a free market capitalist society in the first place. We were, once. Our leaders destroyed that. That's not what our country is anymore.

We are not a free market capitalist society. We aren't even pretending to be. The thing with "not real comminism," is that they think they're being communist. We have leaders who preach "eat the rich." We aren't a free market society.

You're trying to attack my using Communist as an insult by attacking free market capitalism, and the United States. Though I agree with your criticisms of the United States, because we are no longer a free market capitalist society.

It doesn't make any sense to enact a bunch of blatantly anti-capitalist policy, and when that fucks up, shouting "see, capitalism doesn't work!"

When we wer a capitalist economy, it worked really well. Better than any other nation in history.
 
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Rocinante said:
The authoritarian measures we have been seeing over the last 18 months, mostly in the name of protecting us from covid, is not free market capitalism.

We watched an authoritarian takeover happen, and we watched the biggest transfer of wealth from the middle class to the upper elite in history.

This was at the hands of anticapitalist leaders.

This isn't capitalism. This isn't a case of "not real capitalism," either. Our country has been taken over. We are living in an essentially an authoritarian corporate oligarchy.

No, it's not much better than Communism at this point.

This isn't a "not real capitalism," situation because that requires calling us a free market capitalist society in the first place. We were, once. Our leaders destroyed that. That's not what our country is anymore.

We are not a free market capitalist society. We aren't even pretending to be. The thing with "not real comminism," is that they think they're being communist. We have leaders who preach "eat the rich." We aren't a free market society.

You're trying to attack my using Communist as an insult by attacking free market capitalism, and the United States. Though I agree with your criticisms of the United States, because we are no longer a free market capitalist society.

It doesn't make any sense to enact a bunch of blatantly anti-capitalist policy, and when that fucks up, shouting "see, capitalism doesn't work!"

When we wer a capitalist economy, it worked really well. Better than any other nation in history.
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Communism could be described as state capitalist in economy term.Becouse only state could be capitalist.Here,they let oligarchs rule,which mean it would last longer before fall.
 
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