Battletech BattleTech discussion thread: May the light of Hanse Davion guide us

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
Been going through the older BT novels, I just read Heir of the Dragon and I've come to a startling conclusion.

The Nekakami are the most powerful and capable fighters in all of Battletech. Forget DEST, ignore the Death Commandoes, no it's not any of the Clan Trueborn. The Nekakami can smoke them all.

When Hirohito tries to assassinate Theodore Kurita and his wife and children, one of Theodore's supporters dispatches a single Nekakami to kill Hirohito in retaliation. Five things in this incident point to how BS Nekakami are:

  1. Hirohito was the freakin' coordinator. If his security wasn't the best in the entire Inner Sphere, it would at least be in the top five or so. Nothing short of Hilton Head should be harder to get into than the Coordinator's personal chambers.
  2. Despite 1 above, they only felt one Nekakami was required for the job, and they were right.
  3. Theodore rushed to stop the Nekakami. He didn't consider alerting base security, routing some troops, none of that. He was firmly convinced that if he personally didn't talk the Nekakami down, Hirohito was a corpse. He was right.
  4. The Nekakami reached Hirohito via air duct only a few moments after Theodore did. Given the timing, the Nekakami couldn't have had more than half an hour's head start since she wasn't sent until the DropShip crash nearly killed Theodore. That being the case, the Nekakami Ocean's 11'd her way through the Forbidden Palace's security and bypassed every defense nearly as quickly as Theodore could rush through with full authorization.
  5. The Nekakami, again, arrived via air duct, indicating she wasn't a palace maid or some other internal agent poisoning his tea, she literally just danced through all the Coordinator's defenses.
Of further note, the book detailing the Nekakami is also one of the few in BT that hands out magical powers, Ki powers used by the Nekakami Shinobi in this case. Yeah, the Nekakami are the ones that actually have functional Magic Bushido Hands.

Beyond that, the Coordinator wasn't the only one the Nekakami did this to. At some point, the Archon did something to irritate the Nekakami so they sent one to Tharkad who waltzed through all of her security, guardian Griffons and all, and plopped an Origami cat on her throne as a warning not to mess with the Nekakami.

The Nekakami are obscenely good. Why does anybody bother with 'mechs again?
 

PsihoKekec

Swashbuckling Accountant
2D31ED50-4D8B-48EC-8542-43C5902B879E.jpg
 

TheRejectionist

TheRejectionist
From what I heard from the Blaine Pardoe issue I would say that anything related to the IP is fair game on the high seas of the net.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
So I'm working a bit and struggling with some rules.

For Mechs and Monsters I wanted the monstergirls to have a bit of signature tech, preferably something that fits the themes of the story. I also kinda want to go outside of the usual suspects while staying fairly close to the rules, because, well, the setting has it's balance issues and everybody blitzes ER PPCs and Double Heat Sinks immediately because they're so much better.

One thought I had was to go with Compact Heat Sinks since pretty much everybody immediately puts double heat sinks on all their designs first thing. But I sincerely cannot find a single design philosophy for CHS that isn't utter trash. Has anybody ever made a good 'mech using these things?

My backup thought was for the Monstergirls to figure out how to use their metaknowledge to duplicate tech out of the April Fools Battletech supplements, particularly the Star Empire from Nebula California. Most of their stuff is clearly garbage but the Plasma Shields look good and the Proton Torpedo is... niche but getting 50 damage to one hit location out of a launcher light enough to mount on a 20-tonner is pretty nice even if it does have terrible range and extreme vulnerability to point-defense.

Any thoughts on these?
 

Doomsought

Well-known member

Blasterbot

Well-known member
So I'm working a bit and struggling with some rules.

For Mechs and Monsters I wanted the monstergirls to have a bit of signature tech, preferably something that fits the themes of the story. I also kinda want to go outside of the usual suspects while staying fairly close to the rules, because, well, the setting has it's balance issues and everybody blitzes ER PPCs and Double Heat Sinks immediately because they're so much better.

One thought I had was to go with Compact Heat Sinks since pretty much everybody immediately puts double heat sinks on all their designs first thing. But I sincerely cannot find a single design philosophy for CHS that isn't utter trash. Has anybody ever made a good 'mech using these things?

My backup thought was for the Monstergirls to figure out how to use their metaknowledge to duplicate tech out of the April Fools Battletech supplements, particularly the Star Empire from Nebula California. Most of their stuff is clearly garbage but the Plasma Shields look good and the Proton Torpedo is... niche but getting 50 damage to one hit location out of a launcher light enough to mount on a 20-tonner is pretty nice even if it does have terrible range and extreme vulnerability to point-defense.

Any thoughts on these?
I kinda like the idea for the april fools nebula. the transformers alone would be a fun force multiplier especially if you make some custom bots up. another fun idea could be some Narcs. not really OP but it would mean you are incentivized for missile spam as a go to. or you could pick up something like MMLs or plasma rifles and need to build around it. the main thought with compact heatsinks would be you can prolly make something a bit better with both ferro and endo. finding that sweetspot where you need the space freed up just that little bit more would be hard though. and you would be better off with 10 doubles in engine I think usually.
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
I always felt the clans should just evolve to 1/2-ton HS that are Compact instead of the DHS...same performance...but...the space savings could be HUGE!!!
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
Yeah, the free space and in-engine heatsinks are what kill CHS. The tonnage needed to pay for the 20 free heat per round an engine gives is just unbeatable compared to CHS. You can maybe make an argument for very small engines that can't fit many sinks inside, but generally speaking either you're doing something really stupid, like an 80-ton assault that only does 1/2, in any other case small engine is almost certainly going with light 'mech in which case you're not going to be hurting for crits or needing extra heatsinks anyway.

If I could change one rule of BT I think it would be double heatsinks in the engine. Singles and CHS are competitive if the engine wasn't giving so danged much heat sinking from doubles at zero cost. As it is double heatsinks are the single most valuable, most important tech to get in the entire game, and they have absolutely no competition outside extreme edge cases.

I kinda like the idea for the april fools nebula. the transformers alone would be a fun force multiplier especially if you make some custom bots up. another fun idea could be some Narcs. not really OP but it would mean you are incentivized for missile spam as a go to. or you could pick up something like MMLs or plasma rifles and need to build around it. the main thought with compact heatsinks would be you can prolly make something a bit better with both ferro and endo. finding that sweetspot where you need the space freed up just that little bit more would be hard though. and you would be better off with 10 doubles in engine I think usually.
Hmm, wasn't thinking of making the transformers. The Star Empire specifically have some technobabble explanations for how their weapons work in the text which I felt could justify the monstergirls figuring out how to build them, not that turbolasers are worthwhile since the bolts are so slow ASF can outrun them.

Automechs don't really have any explanation for how they work. Monstergirls could expand LAMs to include the other automech modes but those're generally heavily nerfed compared to basic 'mechs, like everything else. Then again if somebody with modern-day AI research knowledge got at BT hardened computers... Maybe the VTOLmechs would be useful.

I'm also leaning towards them replacing LRMs with 'mech mortars. Not quite as good against IS Forces but they're cheap and easy to make, fit the monstergirl backstory, and also the clans have AMS on everything and love them some super-fast lights so the inefficiency of 'mech mortars are covered by their advantages (They ignore target movement modifiers and AMS). This would have the amusing side-effect of hosing anybody trying to salvage their machines or steal their munitions.
 

Blasterbot

Well-known member
Yeah, the free space and in-engine heatsinks are what kill CHS. The tonnage needed to pay for the 20 free heat per round an engine gives is just unbeatable compared to CHS. You can maybe make an argument for very small engines that can't fit many sinks inside, but generally speaking either you're doing something really stupid, like an 80-ton assault that only does 1/2, in any other case small engine is almost certainly going with light 'mech in which case you're not going to be hurting for crits or needing extra heatsinks anyway.

If I could change one rule of BT I think it would be double heatsinks in the engine. Singles and CHS are competitive if the engine wasn't giving so danged much heat sinking from doubles at zero cost. As it is double heatsinks are the single most valuable, most important tech to get in the entire game, and they have absolutely no competition outside extreme edge cases.


Hmm, wasn't thinking of making the transformers. The Star Empire specifically have some technobabble explanations for how their weapons work in the text which I felt could justify the monstergirls figuring out how to build them, not that turbolasers are worthwhile since the bolts are so slow ASF can outrun them.

Automechs don't really have any explanation for how they work. Monstergirls could expand LAMs to include the other automech modes but those're generally heavily nerfed compared to basic 'mechs, like everything else. Then again if somebody with modern-day AI research knowledge got at BT hardened computers... Maybe the VTOLmechs would be useful.

I'm also leaning towards them replacing LRMs with 'mech mortars. Not quite as good against IS Forces but they're cheap and easy to make, fit the monstergirl backstory, and also the clans have AMS on everything and love them some super-fast lights so the inefficiency of 'mech mortars are covered by their advantages (They ignore target movement modifiers and AMS). This would have the amusing side-effect of hosing anybody trying to salvage their machines or steal their munitions.
on the CHS idea what if you just made the ruling that you can fit double in the engines as well. means even more space savings.

on the automech idea the AIs would allow you to grow your roster with some introtech level guys who don't need sleep or food. obviously you would have to treat them well to avoid a robot uprising but one strategy against the clans is to bury them in metal since the tech difference is so bad.

seekerLAMs are equal to standard LAMs so they are horrible fighters but the strategic mobility offered there means they could maybe function as a heavy/light cavalry charge to a weakened flank.

I don't really know what the ground ones have for a loadout but I would lean towards making 2-3 designs plus the seeker one with a different role in mind for each.

the AI component would likely need to be either found in a cache or a mad scientist of some sort. you will probably also need a reason why you can't just make an arbitrary number of mechs to bury your enemies under.

the way I see I see the fake cybertronians it would be less of a upgrade in terms of per unit. it is more a massive advantage in ability to field more units. ton for ton they might not match optimized introtech but they would be in addition to whatever you already have.

admittedly it depends on what sort of story goal you've got. more low maintenance mechs is good if you are defending a world. less good if you need to pack the best possible force you can into a single union dropship.
 

bullethead

Part-time fanfic writer
Super Moderator
Staff Member
For Mechs and Monsters I wanted the monstergirls to have a bit of signature tech, preferably something that fits the themes of the story.
A really obvious solution is making lighter MMLs with integrated FCS and/or TAG.

Eliminate everything below LRM10s and replace them with MMLs for logistical simplicity.

Everything is easy to justify if you establish that the Star League/Terran Hegemony were corrupt and deliberately sandbagging tech progress to maintain the existing military-industrial complex status quo.
 

Blasterbot

Well-known member
I had another thought that could mitigate the negatives of the transformers. there are rules for handheld weapons for mechs. if you keep their arms free of weapons they can carry extras onto the field as well. not too amazing or gamebreaking but there is some utility there and they can always pack a melee weapon that is stated as a club if you don't want to go too deep on futzing with custom mech-held weapons.
 

Blasterbot

Well-known member
anyone remember what book those rules were in? I remember you could armor the weapon and that you had to sink all the heat. also that you had to be able to lift it with the mech either 1 or 2 handed.
edit
the rules are in tactical operations. you can lift 5% your weight in one hand 10% in 2. TSM doubles carry weight. so a 100 tonner can carry a 10 ton gun in 2 hands or a 5 ton in 1. considering an ML plus 3 heatsinks is 4 tons a 40 tonner can wield it 2 handed and an 80 tonner could one hand it. it might be fun to sit around and play with what you can make like this. they are also technically not limited to the transformers so any mech with a free hand could bring some extra firepower.
 
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Bear Ribs

Well-known member
anyone remember what book those rules were in? I remember you could armor the weapon and that you had to sink all the heat. also that you had to be able to lift it with the mech either 1 or 2 handed.
Tactical Operations Page 316. Apparently MaximumTech has an alternative set of rules but I don't know how they differ.

The problem with handhelds is that as long as your 'mech has one, it can't fire any other weapons unless they're head or leg mounted, all torso and arm slots are blocked even if it's just holding a pistol in one hand. As a result, the easiest thing with a handheld is to lard it down with rocket launchers. It doesn't need heatsinks for those and you can land an absolutely massive initial punch, then drop the empty weapon and fight like a normal 'mech except their first enemy just ate fifty-odd damage before the fight even began. Alternatively a vehicle flamer, machine guns, or TAG can make a 'mech that normally doesn't mount anti-infantry or spotting weapons more versatile.

The rules are generally designed to make handhelds as useless as possible though, f'rex they use vehicle rules for heat so energy weapons are very hard to make functional, limiting you to either a missile launcher or autocannon handheld.

However, handhelds like that were huge in BT fiction around 2010 and considered pretty cliche in the greater community today, not sure I want to go there. I feel like the Hotel California stuff is going to work better.

Having played with it a bit I'm really liking spikes. They add +4 to melee damage, both arms or legs count for pushes or DFA (and presumably a quad mule-kick though the authors appear to have forgotten quads exist as usual). A 90 tonner or better with spikes on its arms is a guaranteed headcapper. On a charge each torso location adds +2, so a 4/6 100 tonner with spikes in every location you're looking at a potential 66 damage on a charge. On top of that, the spikes will absorb incoming damage from enemy melee attacks, including the damage a 'mech takes back from a charge making that a much more viable option and making melee a safer alternative.

The downside is that spikes can be shot off, LB/X are definitely going to sandpaper off the spikes quickly.

The best part is spikes are light as heck. Most melee weapons are really heavy but spikes are only half a ton apiece so covering the 'mech in spikes is cheap and light compared with, say, a sword. While most melee mechs have to specialize you can slap spikes all over a 'mech and still have plenty of room for it to fight normally instead of being a one-trick pony.
 

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