ISOT Back to the Past, aka Poland Saves the World from World War II.

[Batrix2070]

Third Republic of Poland
September 18 1938

Inhale, exhale. "Calm down Franek," he thought. "After all, it's nothing, no big deal. You could handle the Marshal, you can handle this Prezes*." He pulled the train of thought, but despite his attempts, something kept him going. It certainly wasn't the shock of riding that strange train, or the current appearance of Warsaw. It was something he expected, even liked.

The current appearance of the Paris of the East exceeded all expectations of the future. In fact, he was sure that Warsaw was the greatest city in the world, compared to which distant Vienna, where he had spent a long time, seemed a mere village. Well, the only thing he didn't like was the behavior of women and young girls. The outfits they wore seemed like ordinary rags, much to his dislike.

And their language. Good God what happened to Polish girls that without hesitation they can say to someone, fuck off! And to such an old man? Unthinkable. Evidently there was a lack of a father in their lives....

He paused for a moment, under Marshal such a vulgar gathering would have been chased to the four winds. And the Prezes as well as his people seemed unmoved. It was as if they didn't give a damn what the stupid youth would think or say. He didn't know whether he should applaud this attitude or rebuke it. He didn't know the current political relations, he only knew that there was a ruling Law and Justice party, some opposition whose members seemed too dumb to take over.

The only thing that seemed familiar to him was that everything is decided by the man behind the scenes. Until recently it was Marshal Pilsudski, now it is Prezes Kaczynski. And everyone dances as he plays them, and the rest are lackeys used as needed.

"General Kleeberg?" a female voice called back. The general looked at the older woman standing at the door to the office. As far as he knew her name was Basia and she was the Prezes's secretary.

"Yes?"

"Prezes Kaczynski is expecting you." she replied and in her voice one could hear loyalty to her superior, as well as a slight fear.

"Good," he replied, then got up from his chair, a terrible plastic awfulness in his opinion, and followed her into the study. The study itself, although it was from a different era, aside from more modern lighting and a different style of furniture, was not too different from what he himself used to think of as the study of an important man. Well, maybe it lacked a certain military style that Pilsudski displayed, but one could sense from the start that this room belonged to an intelligent man, and by the way it was noticeable that he had some sense of humor. What caught his eye was the globe standing on the desk, next to the Prezes himself, on which there was only the future Poland.

From what he heard before he came here, the Prezes was supposed to be some kind of megalomaniac obsessed with Poland and unable to see the world outside of it. Personally, he didn't think it was an affront, why should it be? Enough of Poland's "smart" people who see everything foreign and ignore their own.

The first look into the eyes of the Prezes and already Kleeberg knew one thing. Despite the similarities, Kaczynski is a completely different person from Pilsudski. For better or worse.

"General Franciszek Kleeberg, I welcome you cordially. Please be seated as well as please do not salute me, I am simply the Prezes, not the Marshal." Kaczynski spoke up first, and Kleeberg realized that he had reflexively saluted. Slightly surprised and embarrassed, he pulled off his hand and officer's cap then sat down in the chair in front of the desk indicated by his host.

"What are you drinking? Coffee? Tea?" asked the host

"Coffee, please." Then he added after a moment, "plain, without milk and unsweetened."

"You heard Basia, bring two coffees, one for me and the kind the general wanted." The secretary nodded wordlessly and left the office, closing the door behind her.

Prezes Kaczynski looked intently at the General, the latter reciprocated the look. For a long moment the two men probed each other, trying to see as much as they could about each other without saying a word. The long silence was only broken by the President with the words "Brześć nad Bugiem** must be an interesting place, General."

Kleeberg nodded "That's right, a decent Polish city."

The chairman sadly nodded "Yes, a Polish city. One of the many taken from us by the Soviets after the war." Kleeberg squirmed, one of the things he learned about earliest, right after the event that brought future Poland to this time. Not very pleasant news.

"Do you know that my grandparents just before the war bought a house there?" the Chairman surprised him.

"Why?" he asked curiously

"Grandfather got a position in Brześć, they were supposed to move there just before the war, but its outbreak and then the attack of the Soviets on September 17 thwarted their plans. In view of this, they decided to escape from the Reds to Warsaw. History has shown that this was a good idea."

The general nodded "And may I know who your grandfather was?"

The chairman smiled "He was a sizable landowner and head of the expedition of the Baranovichi Railway junction."

Kleeberg marveled, "It's just under the border!"

Further conversation was interrupted by the arrival of Mrs. Basia with two cups of coffee. She quietly placed them on the desk then left closing the door. Kleeberg took a sip, coffee like coffee he assessed. The chairman, in turn, looked at him.

Kleeberg looked at the door, then asked, "It's been nice Mr. Prezes but can we get to the point?" The Prezes nodded.

"So let's start, I guess that you, like me, believe that the existence of two Polish states in the long run, not only is not desirable but everything should be done to unite both the Second Republic and the Third Republic into one country."

"I agree, the coming years are written in history extremely uninteresting." the Prezes commented. Kleeberg felt that was the understatement of the year. "Although, at least now, Poland has more than enough ground to keep the Borderlands with it, while keeping Stalin at bay."

Kleeberg took his word for it, so many cars or products in the store he found on the other side of the Bug River he had never seen with his eyes in his life. And those Border Guards, well they weren't just anything.

"No less, General. We need you and your forces more than you imagine."

Kleeberg looked at him questioningly.

"You see, this event took us back to a time when we were expanding the Armed Forces significantly for reasons quite similar to the current global uncertainty."

"I heard." replied the General perfunctorily, further unable to believe that the Soviet Union had collapsed and its rotten successor Russia was getting a thrashing of the millennium from Ukraine! How? He didn't know. After all, when the Poles tried to help them almost two decades ago, the whole deal crumbled like a house of cards under the onslaught of the Bolsheviks. And in the future? Ukraine came back and was not going to be killed.

"Therefore, we badly need people for the military. No... we need people for everything. We are short of hands to work, we are short of people for the army. Fortunately, there are quite a few people in the Borderlands who can bridge the gap." The Prezes continued.

Kleeberg nodded, there were no small number of people in the Borderlands. Especially in Eastern Lesser Poland, although quite a few of them were Ukrainians. Though from what he gleaned from conversations, few Poles really minded. A completely different attitude than in his time.

Nevertheless, something else also occupied his head. "Mr. Prezes, if I may ask." The Prezes nodded, "What do you intend to do about Hitler and the Munich Crisis?"

The Prezes replied puzzledly, "Like what? What a superpower should do." By the way, the venom in his voice frightened Kleeberg. He sensed immense hatred in it. Despite his inner resistance, he had to ask.

"Why?"

The answer the Prezes gave did not please Kleeberg.

*Literally Chairman but I left it in Polish for greater effect and distinction. He is one of a kind.
**Brest-on-the-Bug

 

[Batrix2070]

September 20, 1938
Third German Reich
Berlin

An ominous silence reigned in the Führer's office. All the most important dignitaries in the state sat quietly and stared anxiously at the commander-in-chief reading the newspaper. What had happened three days before easily covered up any joy at the enacted action of conquering Bohemia.

Let's start from the beginning, no less. With the beginning of September 17, contact with almost all the eastern provinces of the Reich was lost, only Königsberg and a narrow strip of land in East Prussia survived. To make matters worse, the embassy in Warsaw also fell silent, failing to report back with intelligence agents. Despite attempts, contact could not be regained.

At first it was thought to be for technical reasons, but it soon became apparent that something else had happened when, as the day dawned, foreign vehicles began to enter the Reich and all radios near the Oder began to receive unknown radio stations playing strange music in a foreign language.

But the worst incident was in Görlitz when it became apparent that the eastern part of the city had changed beyond recognition. As soon as this reached the ears of the relevant authorities, it was decided to cover the whole thing up for the time being until the situation was clarified.

Unfortunately, it turned out that this was done too late, the rumors were faster and one of the newspapers picked up on them and decided to check them out. Thus, on the front pages of the newspapers during those three days, instead of focusing on the Sudeten Germans' struggle to return home, this appeared.

WHAT HAPPENED IN GÖRLITZ?

When the eyes of the entire nation and the world fell on the Sudetenland and the fate of the people there who, after years of oppression by the Czech authorities, decided to resist and demand their just rights, disturbing news from the Oder reached the ears of our editorial board.

According to these reports, the eternal German lands east of this river and the Lusatian Neisse have been occupied by monsters speaking a language similar to Polish.

As it turned out, this was not far from the truth. Our colleague Flori Buchwald decided to check them out for the sake of the Reich. What he discovered alarmed us, as well as forces us to ask the question what will our Fuhrer do? But first, let's give Flori the floor.

Dear all, what I am going to describe to you now will shock you and may run you amok. A thing to be avoided but not by suppressing the news, I expect many of you will do it but please don't do it!

What I am going to write to you now will be terrible, but this fact should be acknowledged as soon as possible otherwise it could end in disaster for our homeland, worse than the defeat in the Great War and the crisis after it.

What is it about? The lands east of the Oder and Neisse rivers, have been occupied... no that's the wrong word. They have been replaced by... something foreign. As soon as I arrived in Görlitz, a change was immediately noticeable. The residents were terrified, sizable congregations were right on the outskirts of the city. As soon as I tried to pass through the crowds of people on the road, many tried to stop me.

"Lord! Life is unkind to you!" is what I heard from the mouth of a woman as soon as I said I wanted to go into the city. Fortunately, I managed to get to the river, to the Old Town Bridge. There to my eyes appeared an unusual sight. A blockade on the bridge.

On one side, which is what I was, stood our police but they looked pathetic next to those blocking from the other side. Our own stood like stooges, looking fearfully at the other side. They did not care too much about my person, they were more afraid of those on the other side. I have to admit that there is something to it.

Only one tried to stop me and force me to leave. Fortunately or unluckily it turned into a shoving match that I attracted the attention of those on the other side. They immediately moved toward us, and ours immediately pointed their rifles at them.

It was only now that the commander of the police unit reacted to my person and decided that I was the reason, he quickly called me over to him and asked me to leave because it was dangerous because of these Poles.

Yes, there was no mistake said the Poles. He quickly realized the slip-up when I asked him about it. He tried to wriggle out and then arrest but gave up when it became apparent that the Poles were beginning to demand an explanation of what was going on.

In view of this, I was admitted to them and before that the officer explained to me that overnight the entire city on the other side of the river had been switched, they only found out in the morning when strange vehicles and people who turned out not to be the previous inhabitants of the right bank part of the city began to enter their side.

Chaos ensued, which only now has been brought under control and police from both sides have blocked both bridges.

When I received an explanation, I was admitted to these Poles. The photo of the Polish policeman is next to it. As you can see, he was with his face covered, wearing a kind of body armor connected to cargo holds. In the background you will see their vehicles. The photo gallery is on the second page.

The conversation was short, the Poles briefly and succinctly told me that the Germans on the other side are not there in great numbers. The Polish border goes from Stettin all the way to the Sudetenland, they don't know what happened and there is no entrance to their part of the city for anyone from Germany until the whole thing is cleared up.

The rest of the article was pure speculation on the part of the author and brief descriptions of what he saw, as well as oblique criticism of the government that it was dealing with the wrong things. With the latter, Adolf Hitler nevertheless had to agree. After all, what is the fate of the Sudeten Germans to the sudden displacement and replacement of millions of Germans in the eastern provinces of the Reich? To make matters worse, no one had reported this to him until now, he must have read the damned newspaper, and apparently one that by some miracle until now had hidden itself from the watchful eye of the Gestapo.

To say that he was evil is like saying that the Jew did not plunder Germany for his benefit, or that the Red Rot is just waiting to pounce on Europe when the time comes.


Well, it's time to get to the point. They've all eaten enough fear, thought Hitler somewhat amused by those as they all look fearfully in the direction of their Commander.

He theatrically placed the newspaper, front page to his subordinates after which he calmly asked. "Meine Kameraden, may I know what this is supposed to mean? Why am I only learning about such an important matter this morning? And this from a newspaper!"

The silence that fell after these words made the previous one seem like the busiest carnival. No one was flinching with a quick answer. Besides, what is there to say? The fact was that they botched this case from the very beginning, the Sudetenland was more occupied and here such a thing. How to present it and not be considered crazy? Who was ready to take responsibility?

The chief only nodded his head, this was to be expected. No one would or could use this opportunity to their advantage.

"Muller?" asked the head of the Gestapo, a blind and dedicated man but who nevertheless kept something like this a secret from him. He will remember it, but now is not the time.

"Ja, mein Fuhrer?" he asked unusually calmly but fear could be seen in his eyes.

"May I know why something like this..." tapped the newspaper with his index finger of his right hand "...escaped your attention?" Hitler asked in an innocent tone, as if asking someone that he had lost something.

The Gestapo chief sat stiffly, said nothing for a moment before replying with a bowed head, "Please forgive mein Fuhrer but..."

"What but?"

"But... the first reports sounded ridiculous." explained Muller in a serious tone.

Hitler raised his right eyebrow "You're talking ridiculous?"

The Gestapo officer began to defend himself, "Mein Fuhrer, I'm very sorry but it sounded idiotic at the time! I and my men are in charge of maintaining order as part of the action with the Czechs, and here we suddenly lose contact with outposts in the east of the country and all news comes only west of the Oder and it sounds as if someone does not know the seriousness of the situation!"

"Well..." Hitler nodded "well I accept your explanation, but what did you do when more of this started happening?"

Muller hung back, the Chief could see the deepening fear in his eyes. He didn't want to admit what he had done.

"What have you done?" he asked again but more sternly and his gaze pierced the Gestapo chief's eyes.
Only under this blow did he break like a lanky twig and utter a single word.

"Nothing."

Hitler clicked his tongue from guessing the answer. "It happens." The answer surprised Muller and not only him, Hitler shook his head "Sometimes it happens that busy with something else something surprises us but sounds stupid so we ignore it. Then it turns out to be something more, much more." He looked at the assembled people probing their reactions then turned back to Muller "Isn't that right Muller?"

"Ja mein Fuhrer!" shouted the Gestapo man without hesitation, Hitler smiled slightly then became serious again "Will you correct your mistake?"

"JA!" he said again without hesitation.

"And take care of that newspaper," he added. The Gestapo chief nodded again, "and take care of those policemen from the report." Added the Chief after a moment.

"Ja wohl!"

Satisfied with his subordinate and his new energy, the Commander moved on to the next topic. "Admiral Canaris?"

"Yes?" the older man asked calmly.

"Inform Konrad that he is to tone down and drag out the issue in the Sudetenland for the time being."

The admiral nodded wordlessly, giving no clear indication to Hitler what he thought of this. On the one hand, this irritated him because he could feel the man's resentment against him under his skin; on the other hand, he was an effective counterweight to Heydrich and Himmler, creating a state of imbalance from which he could benefit.

"I also expect Canaris that together with Heydrich you will penetrate this new threat, clear?" he said in an unobjectionable tone to both men.

"Understood." replied the older man

"It will be as you wish Fuhrer." Heydrich said.

Satisfied, the Commander moved on to the last man, Joachim von Ribbentrop. For him, he had the most important task.

"Joachim?" asked the foreign minister lightly. It was impossible not to notice the friendly tone.

"What should I do mein Fuhrer?"

"Make a personal trip to Poland as soon as possible, try to establish relations and learn as much as possible about how it happened that the border runs so close to Berlin."

"As you wish mein Fuhrer" replied Ribbetrop with a firm nod "Anything else?" asked Ribbentrop

"Yes, don't provoke them Joachim."

Those words that were spoken then were to be, as Ribbentrop put it in his diary, some of the most misguided in history. He didn't need to provoke the Poles, the Poles were misguided from the very beginning.

 

[ATP]

Good,that you finally made it.
What to do? from the start - from which year Poland come? i prefer 2023,becouse we would arleady produce Korean tanks and missile launchers.
Problem is - we do not produce computers.So,we must take them from cyvilian stuff,like soviets are doing now.
Poland must change technology to that level which could be maintained/1990 i think/ still producing stuff.

So,no prolonged war.We do not have consprict - we must made army with 1939 poles,then.

Our situation is not so good - but,we could crush germans quickly - preferable making Bavaria and Saxony free.
And,we do not need hostile Czech state - made slovaks and moravians free,too.

After that - send lgbt americans to USA,so people there could do something about their future.With proofs,that FDR provoked war with Japan,too.Help Republicans win there.

Send progressive priests/we have few/ to Vatican to show what happened.No Vaticanum 2 this time,and maybe Fatima 3th mystery would be told.

P.S Since Hitler in 1938 still tried made alliance with Poland,he would propose it this time,too.But - we must smash germans anyway.
And,what about soviets? after few years of preparations,war against them in Alliance with Japan seems as good idea.

Another thing - Rump Poland and Germany in 2023 - Ukraine would lost,or at best we would have draw.
Poland would be annexed by germans.

And,@Batrix2070 - please continue !
Althought your Atl Poland in 1938 would be more interesting.That which covered Russia,too.With technology 20-30 years ahead.

 

[Batrix2070]

September 25, 1938
Third Republic of Poland
Warsaw-Okęcie

Over the last fifty years of his life, Poland's President Andrzej Duda has seen many strange and unexpected things. He also envisioned various scenarios to which life would lead him, some were more realistic, others were crazy, but in none did he think he would personally welcome the infamous Joachim von Ribbentrop, Foreign Minister of the Third Reich, as an expected guest.

And still at the airport, with an honor guard! Even the most unreal dreams he had ever had were not as surreal as this scene. An old, three-engine plane with a swastika painted on its tail landing on a modern-day air strip. It seemed tiny compared to the molochs standing in the distance that are today's passenger planes.

In turn, an escorting F-16 from Malbork hovered in the air.

"I don't like receiving it with such pomp." spoke up Thomas Bagger, the German Ambassador to Poland, or at least until recently. As soon as the backtracking came to light, he immediately applied for political asylum in Poland, along with Austrian Ambassador Andreas Standler and his entire staff.

"Do you think I like it too?" asked him rhetorically though in a very strong tone, Duda had not forgotten his outburst a few months ago when he equated Polish gas and oil purchases with Germany's.

To this the ambassador did not respond. He knew well not to tease an acerbic Pole on this issue. He already knew the strong Polish aversion to his nationality. Although in the case of the current state of the homeland, he would not hold a grudge. He only hoped that the Poles would be merciful enough, for them the difference between a Nazi and a German is only semantic.

On the other hand, can they be blamed?

As the plane came to a stop, Bagger held his breath, only beginning to breathe when Ribbentrop shook his hand, after greeting him warmly with the cool-headed Polish President, "Hello Mr. Ambassador, I hope this will not be your last service to the Reich." he said in an unusually soothing and mesmerizing tone.

But Bagger only strengthened his grip, made a slight false smile before replying "I did it for the good of Germany,". Ribbentrop smiled back contentedly "if necessary I will do more for HER sake." he added in a pressing tone without the shadow of a smile anymore and even with a threat in his voice.

Ribbentrop apparently caught the allusion, although he did not make a sour face was visible in his eyes naked contempt. As you can see, he did not like the hardy base of the ambassador. It could be sensed in his brief reply "I understand."

He then turned his attention to the airport terminal, looked at the whole thing then said with undisguised amazement, "Truly a huge building. From the ground it is more impressive."

"Do you like airports?" asked Duda

Ribbentrop shook his head "Not very, but I've never seen such a big one."
Duda looked at the terminal, saw nothing astonishing about it, and only a moment later understood what the Germans had in mind.

"Good, why don't we go to the meeting place already?" asked Bagger, he wanted to get it over with as soon as possible. Another thing was that he knew perfectly well that the Varsovians wanted to "welcome" Ribbentrop.
It is better not to encourage and risk a brawl, not when Poland is put on the brink of the precipice by the Undoing.

"I agree." spoke up Ribbentrop "The moment is pressing, the Führer is probably impatiently waiting to hear where he stands."

Duda wordlessly nodded and invited Ribbentrop into the government limousine standing on the tarmac. In turn, the former Ambassador was told to pretend that it was into the German Embassy car that Ribbentrop was packed, as Ribbentrop's translator entered.

While driving through the streets of Warsaw, the two men cut a short chat. Ribbentrop tried to be as friendly as possible to the Polish President, but to his astonishment he realized that Duda was not making much of it. He answered only the questions Joachim asked him and only about Warsaw, while the tone of voice betrayed to the minister that Duda hated his guts and would have gutted him on the spot if he got the chance.

He made a mental note for the future. Clearly it won't be easy to get along with these Poles, he thought with displeasure. Oh, how wrong he was that day! With the benefit of hindsight, it was clear as day that Poland had only bad intentions towards Germany. Though the world would say otherwise.

Because the Poles didn't take him in to get along with the Germans, but to put him in front.

He became convinced of this the moment he found himself in front of the main entrance of the Presidential Palace being unceremoniously shoved inside, Ribbentrop remembered well that not long ago this was the seat of the Polish government. Inside, he was led into a cabinet where two other men were located.

A cool look from the two men, one young in a common suit with conspicuous glasses and the other very old who seemed like a second Pilsudski when he was healthy, although he did not carry himself militarily like the old Marshal.

Ribbentrop decided to wait for them to introduce themselves to him. The younger man moved toward him first, shook his hand and in fluent German introduced himself, "Mateusz Morawiecki, Prime Minister of the Republic of Poland."

"I would say that I am Joachim von Ribbentrop," the minister began, "but you know me well from history books."

The prime minister only smiled lightly, although it was on his lips to say "Too bad it's only negative." but he didn't, for the sake of Kaczyński's plan. And being spiteful, unfortunately, would not make it any easier to carry it out.

Instead, he introduced the President, "This is Jarosław Kaczyński, such our Marshal Piłsudski although we call him the Prezes."

Joachim satisfied that his suspicions were confirmed greeted Kaczynski. He said to him that he welcomed him warmly on behalf of Adolf Hitler, but the latter did not respond.

"I'm sorry, the Prezes does not know foreign languages." replied Morawiecki hastily.

Joachim accepted this with understanding "It's like our Fuhrer! He doesn't know either and yet the whole world plays to him as he plays." he said boastfully.

Morawiecki paused for a moment before he involuntarily giggled, then translated both of Ribbentrop's statements. Kaczynski looked at Morawiecki in wonder for a moment, then shook his head amused by the comparison.

Then, through Ribbentrop's interpreter, he said. "You can convey my greeting and my wish to meet with your Commander-in-Chief. I have a few words to say in person, and I wish it would be within the framework of a meeting in Warsaw to solve the burning problem in Czechoslovakia."

"In Warsaw?" Ribbentrop quipped.

"Yes, in Warsaw, Poland is keenly interested in the Czechoslovakia issue. I hope that leaving is not a problem for your leader?"

"No, from there, the leader would be extremely happy to see such a beautiful and rich country." replied Ribbentrop hastily, having a bad feeling.

"I hope so." Kaczynski said calmly and contentedly.

He then gestured for the German minister to sit at the table with his interpreter. As soon as the two were comfortably seated, the polite atmosphere was cut off like a knife.

Ribbentrop straightened up as soon as he felt the change.

"Mr. Ribbentrop," began Morawiecki coldly, "we must settle, some important issues concerning Polish-German relations. We are counting on Mr. Hitler's speed and efficiency in making a decision. We expect only simple answers, yes or no. They do not have to concern the entire agreement, it is enough to say what the Reich now agrees to, and what needs to be agreed upon with longer talks. Is that understood?"

Ribbentrop felt like protesting and leaving, this was extremely brazen behavior, but he felt the strength of Moravetsky's gaze as well as remembered Hitler's request not to provoke. Therefore, he nodded, "Yes, it is understandable."

"Okay, our requests are simple and should rather be acceptable to Germany." Morawiecki continued, then pulled out and slid toward two cards, one in Polish and the other in German.

The entire agreement was only in 10 points, it was simple and clear and each point could indeed be answered with a yes or no respectively.

No less, Ribbentrop saw well that these "requests" were de facto ultimatums, albeit sweetened from the Polish side which offered a carrot. The question was whether the Führer would consider this a sufficient reward.

The individual points of the agreement sounded like this.

1. Recognition of the present shape of the Polish-German borders as permanent and inviolable. Renunciation by the Third German Reich of all claims to Polish lands. The Third Republic of Poland recognizes the present shape of the borders of the Third German Reich as permanent and inviolable and guarantees their inviolability in their present form.

2. Cessation of forcible armaments by the Third German Reich. Maintaining the size of the Wehrmacht at 550,000 troops. The Third Republic of Poland will offer financial assistance to bring the country back on a peaceful footing.

3. Cessation of aggressive foreign policy by the Third German Reich. The Third Republic of Poland offers to conclude a bilateral defense treaty and enter the Anti-Comintern Pact.

4 To cease the policy of extermination and persecution of minorities and other discriminated social groups in the Third German Reich. The Third Republic of Poland will take in any of the unwanted social groups at its expense.

5. Liquidation of the entire SS and Gestapo.

6 Elimination of customs barriers and mutual opening of markets as well as free movement of people between countries.

7. Waiver of all claims to property and rights and intellectual property belonging to German citizens, companies and foundations by the German side.

8 Establish a permanent Warsaw-Berlin telephone line for fast and immediate talks between the two countries.

9. Restoring freedom of speech.

10. Cease persecution of political opposition.

Ribbentrop, seeing with what certainty the Poles presented their demands, had a bad feeling. Nevertheless, he decided to ask first before expressing his judgment.

"An interesting proposal, Prime Minister Morawiecki." he began gently "Although I am forced to ask, what if we refuse?"

"In the sense?" asked Morawiecki, pretending not to understand, Ribbentrop saw all too well.

"In the sense, we will decide not to accept your proposal in its entirety."

The Polish Prime Minister nodded, then theatrically looked at the President, then at the President before asking. "Do you love Germany? Your homeland?"

Ribbentrop was somewhat puzzled by this question "What kind of question is that. Of course it is! I am a National Socialist! What kind of German nationalist would I be if I didn't love Germany."

"So I don't have to ask that you want the best for your homeland?" the Polish prime minister asked with a smile.

"Well, no." replied the appalled German minister.

Again the prime minister nodded with a smile, before the smile disappeared and unimaginable hatred painted in his eyes. "It will be better for Germany if your Fuhrer accepts this proposal. We Poles have become very well acquainted with Germany, the Third Reich and Nazism. Believe me, we have absolutely no reason to be as nice as we have presented in our proposals."

Ribbentrop paused for a moment. These ultimatums were nice? These bullying demands that are even orders against Germany are nice? At first he wanted to say something to this Polish pig what he thought about it, but Morawiecki's tone of voice, his look that expressed hatred and contempt as well as his self-control stopped him from causing a brawl.

Instead, seeing a clear red flag, he calmed down. As much as possible, he tried to pretend he wasn't upset, while holding his interpreter's hand to keep him quiet.

As soon as he thought he could speak, he asked in an effort to be nice. "May I know why you have no reason?" Morawiecki gave him a peculiar and distrustful look, "So as not to offend the esteemed Prime Minister or your homeland, I just want to know why." He added hastily while lying as befits a diplomat.

Morawiecki nodded "Do you want to know?" he asked rhetorically, Ribbentrop immediately nodded "Okay, then. In our past, and for you no longer a future, the Third Reich invaded Poland, plundered it and murdered more than six million Poles. Of course it lost because it pissed off the whole world, nevertheless what it stole it never gave back."

Ribbentrop raised his eyebrows slightly in wonder; this was a bad sign.

"You have seen Warsaw, haven't you?" asked the Pole seemingly casually.

Ribbentrop nodded "You were passing through town with President Duda, beautiful right?"

Ribbentrop must have agreed, beautiful indeed.

"Do you know why we showed the city?" Ribbentrop made a strange face.

"Because it's a replica."

"Excuse me, what is your Capital?" asked the surprised German.

"A replica," repeated Morawiecki, "A replica, rebuilt by Poles from the rubble into which Warsaw was turned. Only a few buildings, such as the one you are in. It's original and only repaired from the destruction. All the rest, are artificially recreated buildings using old photos and pictures. Only the new buildings are built from scratch."

Ribbentrop felt that he was squashed into an armchair, they razed their capital to the ground. The Poles rebuilt and expanded it. Nevertheless, there is almost nothing left of the old city, it is all too good a reason for hatred. Really, these demands from their point of view look nice. In view of this, they prefer not to get to know anymore what Poles find unpleasant. Ironically, just two weeks ago he thought it was the Poles who should be afraid of what the Germans consider unpleasant demands, now the situation has reversed.

He looked at the Prime Minister, then at the President and then at the President. Each of them manifested a different version of contempt, dislike and indifference. Nonetheless, one could sense that they saw him only as a bug, a nasty person they were forced to talk to.

"So, let me put it this way Mr. Minister." continued Morawiecki, "If you love Germany so much, make sure Hitler thinks the current borders are sufficient. However, if that would be difficult, I will give you some information that may come in handy."

"What kind of war?" asked Ribbentrop, any war ambitions he had manifested up to that moment had just died. On the contrary, he would now go with Goering to stop Hitler from going to war with Poland.... what is he thinking!!.Before the outbreak of war with Czechoslovakia! Because that's what the Poles have wanted all along!

"Currently, the economy of the Third Republic is eight thousand times larger than that of the Third Reich. In contrast, much less was sufficient to knock down Germany in World War II." said Morawiecki with a very fake smile, Ribbentrop thought the Pole was now gloating over the horror he had achieved.

"I see," said Ribbentrop, of course he did not believe that it was really eight thousand, nevertheless the certainty with which he told him means that the real number must not be far from that figure. Nevertheless, it's really a lot, a very big number, there's no way Germany would ever jump over that figure... he stopped his train of thought because he remembered something.

He looked at the document in front of him, found the relevant article, then looked at Prime Minister Morawiecki. Damn the devil, thought Ribbentrop, he offered financial assistance as well as a willingness to trade with Germany. If only they would start trading, the speed with which they would move forward would surely be unimaginable. They will move so fast that no Lebensraum will even be needed.

Indeed, the Poles are giving a really juicy carrot. Especially since Ribbentrop did not doubt that the stick they hold behind their backs is big, long and extremely hard and they will not hesitate to use it on the Germans.

The question is, will Hitler agree to it?

 

[Batrix2070]

Third Republic of Poland
October 1, 1938
General Staff of the Polish Army


"Mr. Prime Minister, Mr. President, Mr. Minister, thank you for coming immediately." said four-star Polish Army General Rajmund Andrzejczak, Chief of General Staff of the Polish Army to Morawiecki, Duda and Minister of National Defense Mariusz Błaszczak.

He then tapped on the map of Europe in front of him, a map that bore no resemblance to the one from two weeks ago, when an emergency meeting was called at the National Security Office. That one was makeshift, simply superimposed on the 1938 map of Europe, the contours of modern Poland.

The one here was a full-fledged map depicting the current state of the world, i.e. the combined Third Republic and Second Republic into one, next to Poland's old neighbors from the interwar period. So far they have not received a response from Germany in connection with the ultimatum, although the fact is that the Sudetenland brawl has quieted down.

While this was a good sign, this way the staffers were not working under as much stress as before. Nevertheless, the Soviets remained Soviets, and there were several diversions on the border during those two weeks. Including the shooting down of a Soviet spy plane by Polish anti-aircraft defenses. Fortunately, the KOP did a good job and readily adapted to cooperate with the SG.

"Go ahead Mr. General, nevertheless, if you have mercy, let's spring for it. I have a really busy schedule." spoke up President Duda on whose face fatigue was evident. Since Ribbentrop left for Germany, Duda has not had a quiet moment. For the past few days he has been constantly on the road, together with Foreign Minister Zbigniew Rau he has been practicing a veritable Tour de la World.

Each separately went from country to country in which there were Polish embassies to reestablish contact with each of them. To reassure each of the ambassadors, as well as to ask them to continue their duties for Poland. Fortunately, none refused, only asked for new instructions on how to act. In doing so, they had to greet each Head of State and his representatives to assure that about the new era of foreign relations between the countries, as well as probing with what speed they could re-trade with each of them.

The Third Republic, as one might expect from a country so tied to foreign exports, fell into crisis. Any foreign market, however small, was extremely valuable to be able to quickly return to normalcy.

"I understand, Mr. President." replied Rajmund, having had a similar experience himself. The last two weeks had not been light for him either, he had to supervise and participate in the creation of the plan, coordinate the absorption of the Polish Army of the Second Republic and integrate them into the system to make the old divisions able to interact with the Modern Armed Forces. For now, they have done barely the basics alone and much work still lies ahead.

"Okay, anything else?" he asked the other officials for reassurance.

Both the prime minister and the minister shook their heads. "No, you can start."

"I see," chuckled General Andrzejczak before he grunted and began to speak, pointing his finger at the deployed units on the map.

"Let's start with the basics, as a result of the Revocation we gained access to more than ten Infantry Divisions located in Vilnius, Grodno, Baranovichi, Kobrin, Kovel, Rivne, Lviv, Ternopil and Stanislawow, respectively." indicated the division flags placed in the garrison cities.

"Of which one, i.e. the 1st Legion Infantry Division, we decided to take from Vilnius and move to Bialystok and merge with our 1st Legion Infantry Division. Based on it, the procedures and mechanism for modernizing and adapting the other infantry divisions of the Second Republic will be developed." he said, rearranging a flag with the 1DPL inscription from city to city.

"So there will be no de-formation of these divisions?" asked the Prime Minister

"No, it's a waste of the time and effort that went into them. It will be faster and more efficient to reform them into a new organization than to liquidate and reconstitute them. Especially since we will lack the mass to saturate and maintain such a territory." replied Andrzejczak

"I understand, but there will be a dismantling of units? Yes the nation will understand that money is needed for the military, but our current budget is not made of rubber." asked the concerned Prime Minister, the whole of this year's budget was thrown in the trash, although it is a fact that the Undoing erased the vast majority of the debt, leaving only the one to Polish citizens, there was a budget hole which they managed to reduce through increased GDP growth. For the time being, they patched it up with gold, the nationalization of foreign companies' assets and their quick resale and other tricks. However, until foreign trade returns, they are in a bind.

"Yes." agreed Andrzejczak, "therefore, we will unform two cavalry brigades, Vilna and Podolska, professional soldiers will be transferred to units in the west where they need soldiers. We will unite the remaining three brigades into one Cavalry Division which will ultimately be an armored unit. What's more, we will include in this new division all four armored battalions that the Second Republic had in the Borderlands. For the time being, they will ride on tankettes and armored cars, but we intend to rearm them all with T-72s as soon as possible, what we obtain we will donate to the museum or put up for sale."

The prime minister nodded with satisfaction "So the Cavalrymen won't cause too much trouble?" he asked, remembering that there were some problems with Cavalrymen during the Second Republic when it came to motorization.

The general sighed, "Well, let's just say that we have at least managed to persuade them to think." After which he added hastily, "Nevertheless, many are rather reconciled to the idea that they will have to switch from horses to vehicles. Although armored men are the most feverish and eager to make the switch. The pictures of the T-72 were all too interesting for them."

"I understand," replied the Prime Minister

"Okay, another organizational issue. Aviation." the general returned to the subject, "there are two squadrons in the borderlands, the 5th in Lida-Vilnius and the 6th in Lviv. General Nowak recommended that the squadrons be left where they are, only to modernize their technical facilities as well as the bases themselves to our standards in order to raise their existing combat capabilities. Due to the lack of any aircraft we can give them, they will fly on what they have so far. Nonetheless, Mr. Prime Minister, new aircraft are needed on an urgent basis, which is why Gen. Nowak proposed a quick solution, that is, to design new propeller aircraft or buy them with a license. But this is only to be a filler until a jet aircraft is designed by our own efforts."

The prime minister squirmed, it's another expense, a necessary one, but another expense nonetheless. Meanwhile, the president woke up. "Buying you say?"

"Yes, Mr. President. General Nowak suggested that for now you need any decent aircraft with which to man the pilots. Especially those from the Borderlands. He himself proposes to use the F-16 parts plant and design an entire jet on the basis of these machines, but it will take a long time. It will be faster to develop a new propeller plane or buy them from abroad to form the backbone of our air force until jet production capacity is regained."

"Okay, I'll try to get the planes." The president nodded "British ones can they be?" he added jokingly.

"I don't know, on average I know about airplanes. I'd have to ask Nowak or some historian." replied General Andrzejczak.

"Well, then ask them exactly what period aircraft suits them best and I'll try to arrange them."

"Spitfire" interjected Minister Błaszczak.

"Spitfire?" asked the President.

"Yes, it's a British aircraft of the era, one of the best they built. If you're going to get fighter planes, get one. We can do a lot based on it. Even one piece purchased can help us, if we take apart the engine in the fuselage we can develop our own very quickly. Because it's with the engines that we have the biggest problem, all the rest we can easily design and build." Blaszczak explained

"Engines are generally our problem in production, do I remember correctly?" asked Gen.

"Yes, Mr. General." agreed the minister "Therefore, Mr. Prime Minister, we must already now, develop any sufficient engine of our own production. It doesn't have to be the best, it just has to be." addressed the prime minister

The prime minister nodded reluctantly, "Okay fine, I understand. A plant for manufacturing and designing internal combustion engines. There will definitely be money for that." He concluded his answer by looking at the president.

"I said, we are in the process. We should be signing a trade agreement with Romania and Latvia soon. You will get your money." replied the President tight-lipped. Morawiecki was poisoning him every moment that he needed to open foreign markets as soon as possible as well as access to their banking sector in order to borrow.


"Not enough!" said Morawiecki "Both countries are small and too poor, we need to open up the superpowers for our needs as soon as possible."

The president scowled, "I told you clearly, these days everyone is cautious about trade and guarding their markets. We need time and to gain their trust to open up for us. We can't rush because they will take advantage of it."

The general grunted, "Gentlemen, this is not the time or place. I wanted to go over the last housekeeping matters to then rearrange the operational plans. May I?" he said in an officer-like but calm tone, quashing the argument.

"Sorry," replied the prime minister and president, feeling rebuked like schoolchildren.

"I understand that you are tired, we all are. But there is still a lot to do." The general continued, then returned to the map.

"The last issue is the navy, let's start with the Borderlands, there is the Naval River Flotilla. It is stationed in Pinsk and operates in the so-called Pinsk Sea, that is, in the Pripyat River basin."

"What about her?" asked the prime minister curiously, having never heard of this formation.

"Nothing, Vice Admiral Ziemiański just wants to preserve it and bring it logistically in line with the rest of the Navy. This requires adequate expenditures because they operate on ammunition and guns no longer manufactured in Poland. Of course, it is possible to build new ones, nevertheless the fact that they are not used today says a lot about their future. That's why it's more preferable to leave the current ships and only adapt them to the system."

"A collection of scrap metal from our navy." muttered President Duda

"Well, unfortunately." agreed the General, "But this is not the end of it, the ships of old that the sailors want to accept."

"What other ships do they want?" quipped the Prime Minister.

"What do you mean? Submarines!" replied the General, "Vice Admiral Ziemiański found out when the OORP Orzeł and Sęp were introduced, as it happens, next year. Therefore, he wants to take them in this way by returning to the origins to save the submarine service, as well as wants to order more Orzeł-class ships, although he wants the new ones to be modernized and built in Polish shipyards. We should be able to do this on our own."

The prime minister nodded, "So Orka is out of the way, but what about the Miecznik?"

The general sighed, "On average, many of the elements that we do not produce at home and that we did not manage to deliver for obvious reasons will have to be removed. In fact, it will be necessary, on the basis of what is there, to redesign the whole thing from scratch, and much more modestly than it was originally."

"The sailors are damned unlucky." Błaszczak commented

"Yes, but the problem has not gone away. They need large and powerful ships capable of repelling the Baltic Fleet, submarines won't do it." agreed with the minister General Andrzejczak

"Well, yes, someone has to escort our transport ships, and that someone had better be our sailors." the prime minister whined.

"Of course, the Vice Admiral assured me that work is already underway to solve the Navy's current problems, nevertheless, as he stated, there will be a lot of stopgap in this." concluded the general.

Politicians nodded their heads, there was not much to add here. For the time being, they were not worried about the elections, Withdrawal and the crisis caused by this made the public in favor of moving them to a later date. Hence this year's parliamentary elections did not take place. Of course, much of the opposition shouted about dictatorship and violation of democracy, but who would take these idiots seriously? All they had to do was see to it that Poland did not fall prey to its neighbors, they knew all too well what kind of monsters they were bordering.

The general at the time adapted the map and began to present the first of the operational plans.

"Let's start with the first of the plans. Operation West Lion." The general began, showing the plan for attacking Germany.

"The plan is not overly complicated, it has two phases. Phase 1 involves a quick strike by two combined divisions, namely 16 and 18, on Königsberg and repelling German attacks on the Oder and Lusatian Neisse rivers by the 11th Division and 12th Division supported by five WOT* brigades and both aeromobile brigades" The general showed a not-so-complicated strike along the roads to Prussia conducted by the two divisions, as well as the defensive positions of the Polish troops. It was apparent that the defense was to be mainly on the river, with partial occupation of the other bank to gain depth. Only near Szczecin did it break away from the river and go west of the city, close to the border.

"As soon as Prussia is occupied, both divisions will be redeployed to the west of the country. The occupation of Prussia will be handled by the 1st Division, supported by the 4th WOT Brigade." set the flags of the units showing the target end state of Phase 1.

"Phase 2 will begin as soon as preparations for a deeper offensive into Reich territory are completed. Within its framework, infantry divisions from the Borderlands will be redeployed as operational retreats, their place will be taken by the WOT from the east... sorry middle-east of the country which, together with the KOP**, will guard the eastern border. As soon as they are finished, four modern divisions will be used to open the assault." indicated the directions of the strike.

"The 12th Mechanized Division and the 18th Mechanized Division will strike from the direction of Szczecin as the main axis of attack, the goal of the 12th Division will be to march along the coast and capture Roztoka. The 18th Division will strike directly towards Berlin where it will meet the 11th Armored Cavalry Division which will attack from the Lublin Province towards Chociebuz, after which it will turn north towards Berlin, the goal of both units will be both to seize the German capital and to take the German units which will be actively battle-bound by a feigned WOT strike from the side of Kostrzyn-on-Oder."

Politicians looked at the long strikes they intended to bring out.

"The 16th Division, on the other hand, should have the easiest task to accomplish, the seizure of Dresden. They, like the 12th Division, are to draw German units away from the defense of Berlin to defend a secondary objective. It is an auxiliary strike to that in the north." explained the General.

"If necessary, borderland infantry divisions whose only task will be to fill gaps between units and prevent the Germans from cutting them off will be brought into the fight." showed the general on the basis of an example of an attempted German counterattack.

"Our aeromobile brigades, that is, the 6th Airborne Brigade and the 25th Air Cavalry Brigade, will have two tasks, to capture the island of Rügen and to act as a fire department in case of more serious strikes." He raised two smaller flags.

"The 6th Brigade will carry out a landing from the air to take control of the island, after it is secured by rear troops, it will act as a fire department to patch holes." showed the general what he meant.

"The 25th Brigade, on the other hand, will initially act as a fire department, but when our divisions approach Berlin, it will conduct the initial assault after first suppressing the anti-aircraft defenses in the city. Only then will the rest of the forces join in. Our goal is to capture the city as quickly as possible. Roztoka and Dresden are secondary in this regard. Only when Berlin falls will the main objective of the operation be fulfilled."

"As a result of the losses inflicted as well as the shock of technical and operational superiority, we expect that the mere capture of the Dresden-Berlin-Roctock Line will force Germany into peace talks." concluded the general.

"What if it doesn't happen?" asked the PM, unsure that it would be so easy.

"This we will continue to the Elbe Line, if this does not force them to lay down their arms, we will lead the attack straight to the Ruhr. Nevertheless, we think that by the time we get there the Germans should have run out of either men or equipment. If this doesn't happen, the collapse of the industrial center will end the war, because the remnants of the Wehrmacht will not be able to put up a long resistance without their logistical support." replied Andrzejczak calmly.

The Prime Minister nodded, while the President asked, "What if the Soviets strike?"

The general sighed before asking, "Do you know the president of this joke, what the Poles will do when Poland, Germany and the Russians invade?"

The president smiled, feigning amazement, "I'm not supposed to know?"

"Well, it's going to be like in that joke, first the Germans because they are weaker, the combined forces of WOT and KOP should give a long enough repulse to the Red Army so that we can knock out the Germans, then we will transfer the soldiers to the east, push the Red Army out of Eastern Poland and then we will start Operation Cossack Pogon which is aimed at pushing the Red Army to the Dnieper and Dvina line," the general explained.

"And what does this operation look like?" asked the Prime Minister

"For the time being it is still under development, nevertheless the general plan already exists." replied the general, rearranging the flags.

"Namely, we will first bring out two strikes led by two of our modern divisions supported by four old divisions." showed the main strikes

"In the north will attack the 16th and 18th Divisions, which will lead the attack on Minsk, after taking the city, the 16th Division will move with the support of the three old divisions north toward Orsha and Vitebsk to take the Smolensk Gate, while the 18th Division will march south toward Gomel, it will be joined by the remaining two Infantry Divisions held around Pinsk and the Cavalry Division which will break through to Mazyr but only after the fall of Minsk and the start of the 18th Division's march, until then they are to tie up the enemy with fighting." informed General

"In the South, the 11th and 12th Divisions will lead the attack, the 11th Division will move from Ternopil toward Khmelnytskyi, then will strike Vinnitsa. After taking both cities, it will dig in while waiting for news from the 12th Division." the general showed the division's march

"The 12th Division, on the other hand, will move toward Zhytomyr and, after capturing the city, to Kiev. When it captures Kiev, it will move south along the Dnieper, leaving the defense in the hands of one of the old divisions. Then the 11th Division will also move, with the goal of capturing Nikolaev, while the 12th Division will take the city of Dnieper." introduced the next phase of the fighting.

"Once this is done, the next objective will be to capture the lower reaches of the Dnieper, meaning the 11th Division moves on Kherson and the 12th Division takes Zaporozhye. Once this is done, Operation Cossack Pogon will be completed, although there is still a long way to go to win the war." concluded the General.

"And then?" asked the Prime Minister

"Further, Mr. Prime Minister, we can't do it. We will lack the forces to accomplish this. We won't knock out the Soviet Union with 15 Divisions, it's too big an area and not enough men. The Soviets, even as extremely inept as they were then, will be able to defeat us through numerical superiority. We would have to have at least twice as many divisions as we have to be able to go to Moscow, just getting to the Dnieper line will be difficult, especially in Ukraine let alone a full-scale invasion deep into the Soviets!" explained General Andrzejczak.

"That is, the Prezes was right, without the Wehrmacht, the war in the East will not be won, unless we switch the whole country to a war footing." replied the Prime Minister

"The Wehrmacht is not that necessary, but yes, the Chairman is right. We will need allied divisions, well, unless the Prime Minister and the Minister get me new units. Because the plans are made about the current state." confirmed General

"Well, that means without two new divisions?" asked the PM

"If we want to defeat the Soviets, then yes." affirmed the general, "If, on the other hand, we only want to bleed them, then it is enough to modernize those 11 divisions we got. Such a force can calmly handle repelling the Red Army's attacks."

The prime minister sighed, "Well I can see that it will be difficult to find places to save money. Well, nothing, security above all." He then looked at the president "Andrew, you heard what the general says. Our needs have grown again, hurry up to normalize these relations. We need to export!"

Meanwhile, the general glanced sullenly at the Minister of National Defense, "Don't you have anything to add, Minister?"

Minister Błaszczak, who was just jotting down notes in a notebook, broke off and looked at the Chief of Staff, "I don't have anything, I'm just writing down a list of purchases I'll be forced to make. Well, and I'm thinking about how to push certain armaments companies to get to work."

The general agreed, he knew very well which companies and, more specifically, which plant was involved. The future of the armored forces depends on whether they take on full-fledged work. Without tanks, they can only dream of a full-fledged strike.

"We can always take them into the army, Minister." suggested General

The minister looked at him before adding appreciatively, "You know? That's some idea."


* WOT- Wojska Obrony Terytorialnej i.e. in English Territorial Defense Forces
** KOP- Korpus Ochrony Pogranicza i.e. in English Border Protection Corps, elite and heavily militarized formation under the Ministry of Internal Affairs whose task was to guard the Polish-Soviet border before World War II.

 

[Batrix2070]

And,@Batrix2070 - please continue !

As you can see, I continue.

Althought your Atl Poland in 1938 would be more interesting.That which covered Russia,too.With technology 20-30 years ahead.

I think more of it would stay as a completely separate world, such a really alternative history.

 

[Buba]

Apparently Poland is still making the 9-cylinder radial Wright Cyclone 1820:

Aircraft engines - Wytwórnia Sprzętu Komunikacyjnego PZL Kalisz S.A

Technical data : After-sales service : The list bulletins of AI-14 RA and AI- 14 RC engines The list of spare parts to AI-14RA engine / list - see details / / spare parts - PDF file / The list of bulletins of ASz 62 IR engine The list of spare parts to ASz –

www.wsk.kalisz.pl

use it!
Due to lack of supply chain don't expect the resumption of manufacture of existing jets and turboprops ever (i.e. 10 years or longer). Dumbed down versions may be available inside a year or two?

 

[ATP]

As you can see, I continue.

I think more of it would stay as a completely separate world, such a really alternative history.

Good.
Now,germans could back off or attack.In both cases they lost - germany would bancrupt till 1944 without war.

 

[ATP]

As you can see, I continue.

I think more of it would stay as a completely separate world, such a really alternative history.

I add something in private,considering Gierek story,too - but now i have idea about soviets.
Just told them openly,tat you knew who meet Sralin in 1953 just before he died.And would told it in month.
Interesting reaction - either another purge,or dead Sralin.

And spies from modern Russia - just told them,that they could told everything,or you send them to Moscov,absolutly unharmed.

Cheaper weapons - recon drones for arillery,and grenade launchers and Grot rifles for infrantry.
Air forces - PZL 130 orlik,we should have plans for P.230 Skorpion,too
Navy - just big cyvilian ships with missile launchers and 155mm guns.

 

[ATP]

As you can see, I continue.

I think more of it would stay as a completely separate world, such a really alternative history.

Many other questions privately,but here i have two:

What about USA embassy and army in Poland? maybe ask them nicely to give us everything,or we send them to 1938 USA ?
especially lgbt clowns should cooperate.

What about foreign shops,including germans? could we just take over,let say,Lidl?

P.S one more - what about building atomic plant? could we do that? and with which specialists - USA,Japan,France?
Must we share knowledge with their countries ?

And,how many ambassadors would decide to ask for asylum,and from which countries?
/Would be funny,if USA did so/

 

[Buba]

Cheaper weapons - recon drones for arillery,and grenade launchers and Grot rifles for infrantry.

Small arms - Poland rules the world and should have factories working three shifts for a decade or longer to meet export orders.

Air forces - PZL 130 orlik,we should have plans for P.230 Skorpion,too
Navy - just big cyvilian ships with missile launchers and 155mm guns.

The Orlik needs militarisation - self sealing tanks, guns, armour - that means weight and that means degraded performance. Has been not in production for over 15 years, but maybe the tooling is there - if not, setting up production will take years. And the clu of the matter - can Poland make turboprops (I've no idea of the imported content of the P&W engines made in Poland)? And "how fast?".

The P230 is textbook example of napkinwaffe. I will not waste more time on it

Navy - I know too little to comment.

BTW - none of this is relevant immediately after the ISOT event. Only the stuff in units, warehouses and already in production with low share of components without Polish made analogues matters.

Integrating DT units is IMO ... a silly idea. The mental and technological gap is too wide.
A minor point - as the IIRP was trying making Poles out of Poland's inhabitants, half of a unit's recruits were conscripted locally while the rest cam from other parts of the country (nothing unusual). Also, the proportion of Poles had to be "X%" (this percentage varied by speciality, IIRC highest in signals), hence the "topping up" with ethnic Poles from the west. So the DT units have a high share of unhappy young men who lost their families in the western and central parts of the country. Same applies to the reverse - those eastern voivodships lost half of the currently conscripted men to the ISOT.

The economy has to go into "war communism" or similar mode.
Good point as to "who owns what". I trust PiS to nationalise all shares held by entities registered abroad.

Poland has a working nuclear reactor at an university facility. And there are books in libraries with many details of how to build commercial powerplants.

Maria reactor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Batrix2070]

What about USA embassy and army in Poland? maybe ask them nicely to give us everything,or we send them to 1938 USA ?
especially lgbt clowns should cooperate.

A proposal of the unobjectionable kind. This is how I can say in a nutshell what will be presented to them.

What about foreign shops,including germans? could we just take over,let say,Lidl?

I trust PiS to nationalise all shares held by entities registered abroad.

I have already mentioned this in passing, but I can explain in more detail. In a nutshell, it depends on the company. Foreign branches of foreign companies that have based their growth on buying out Polish competitors de facto become independent and revert to the old name if they didn't use it. Nevertheless, it will be just as it was but already without someone else's signboard and foreign headquarters.

In the case of foreign investments created from scratch, the matter becomes complicated, in large numbers they have been nationalized and are now sold by the government back into private hands thus generating additional income. For example, the stores of the Lidl chain are being bought out by Dino which is thus taking advantage of the opportunity. This is happening throughout the economy. Not all are reprivatized in this way, of course, some are sold back but to the existing management. The last group, on the other hand, those that are not intended to be sold, clearly become state-owned and will serve as the foundation for one or another state-owned company.

The last group from abroad are foreign investments but whose management quickly became independent, becoming a new entity. In this way they avoided nationalization.

can Poland make turboprops (I've no idea of the imported content of the P&W engines made in Poland)

Akurat, the Polish branch of P&W in Rzeszow produces three such engines, of which only one is aircraft, the rest are helicopters. These engines power our Bryza.

And "how fast?".

It depends on the pace imposed; in theory, a new engine, for example for a tank, requires more than 10-15 years to develop. But knowing life, when there is a need, and a very urgent one at that, it will be possible to shorten it, and significantly. Given that Poland needs modern engines for now, it will probably be much faster. (Although let's not kid ourselves, their "modernity" and relevant parameters may not be as good as normal ones.)

The Orlik needs militarisation - self sealing tanks, guns, armour - that means weight and that means degraded performance. Not in production for over 15 years, but maybe the tooling is there

I heard that they reportedly scrapped the entire Orlik production line. Though I rather had a vision, of such a modern WWII-style aircraft designed from scratch and being the sum total of the best aircraft of the era.

Integrating DT units is IMO ... a silly idea. The mental and technological gap is too wide.

It gave me an idea, for the next chapter. Nevertheless, it is not a stupid idea but which is simply necessary but why I will explain in this chapter. So feel delighted, you will be immortalized as a sleaze. 😛

Although I will think about how to present the video on "YT "* in written form.

*Do you know any Polish site in this style? Or should I just gloss over the fact that one was created because such a need arose? I don't know, for example, redesigning the TVPVOD site so that it would be possible to upload videos to it.

Poland has a working nuclear reactor at an university facility. And there are books in libraries with many details of how to build commercial powerplants

Rather, yes, we can do it ourselves, although it is simpler to just buy it from another. And yes, we will be starting from scratch.

Navy - I know too little to comment.

Eh, the idea of ATP is.... stupid. Any destroyer would sink something like that.
I have another idea myself, well a couple to be exact, buying a certain Chilean battleship and ordering four more from the French, modeled on the Dunkirk class. Of course, they will be a nice compilation of modernity with the old.
Because I can see that such a cruiser, with a little help from the Swedes and perhaps the Germans, we will manage to do ourselves. And the aircraft carriers can wait for the jets.

 

[bintananth]

For foreign aircraft to import here's an alternative to the Spitfire which would be good: the Hawker Hurricane - same Merlin engine as the Spit but much easier to build and maintain while also being far more rugged. Hurricane pilots actually shot down more German aircraft during the Battle of Britain than Spitfire pilots did.

Historically, the Brits did export and grant foreign production licences for Hurricanes ... which they didn't do with the Spitfire AFAIK.

Something American powered by powered by the Pratt & Whitney R-1830 Twin Wasp or Wright R-1820 Cyclone for the engine if nothing else. There are a lot to choose from and not all of them are military aircraft. The DC-3, for example, was an airliner. I would be surprized if ISOT'd Poland doesn't have an old Soviet Shetsov M-25 sitting in a museum somewhere. That's a licence-built R-1820-F3. The M-25 was the starting point for the Shetsov ASh-62 and Shetsov ASh-82.

 

[Buba]

[In Boromir voice]
Poland has no battleship. Poland needs no battleships.
All Poland needs for the Baltic is helicopters and submarines

 

[ATP]

Small arms - Poland rules the world and should have factories working three shifts for a decade or longer to meet export orders.

The Orlik needs militarisation - self sealing tanks, guns, armour - that means weight and that means degraded performance. Has been not in production for over 15 years, but maybe the tooling is there - if not, setting up production will take years. And the clu of the matter - can Poland make turboprops (I've no idea of the imported content of the P&W engines made in Poland)? And "how fast?".

The P230 is textbook example of napkinwaffe. I will not waste more time on it

Navy - I know too little to comment.

BTW - none of this is relevant immediately after the ISOT event. Only the stuff in units, warehouses and already in production with low share of components without Polish made analogues matters.

Integrating DT units is IMO ... a silly idea. The mental and technological gap is too wide.
A minor point - as the IIRP was trying making Poles out of Poland's inhabitants, half of a unit's recruits were conscripted locally while the rest cam from other parts of the country (nothing unusual). Also, the proportion of Poles had to be "X%" (this percentage varied by speciality, IIRC highest in signals), hence the "topping up" with ethnic Poles from the west. So the DT units have a high share of unhappy young men who lost their families in the western and central parts of the country. Same applies to the reverse - those eastern voivodships lost half of the currently conscripted men to the ISOT.

The economy has to go into "war communism" or similar mode.
Good point as to "who owns what". I trust PiS to nationalise all shares held by entities registered abroad.

Poland has a working nuclear reactor at an university facility. And there are books in libraries with many details of how to build commercial powerplants.

Maria reactor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

1.Only partially true - first we need produce it for old army and bigger WOT.At least million of new rifles is needed,if not more.
Considering how many we could do,it take at least few years before we could produce anything for export.

2.True about Orlik,i think.And poor consprict without families.
And,war economy could be needed - in that case,PIS must provoke war and win it.

A proposal of the unobjectionable kind. This is how I can say in a nutshell what will be presented to them.


I have already mentioned this in passing, but I can explain in more detail. In a nutshell, it depends on the company. Foreign branches of foreign companies that have based their growth on buying out Polish competitors de facto become independent and revert to the old name if they didn't use it. Nevertheless, it will be just as it was but already without someone else's signboard and foreign headquarters.

In the case of foreign investments created from scratch, the matter becomes complicated, in large numbers they have been nationalized and are now sold by the government back into private hands thus generating additional income. For example, the stores of the Lidl chain are being bought out by Dino which is thus taking advantage of the opportunity. This is happening throughout the economy. Not all are reprivatized in this way, of course, some are sold back but to the existing management. The last group, on the other hand, those that are not intended to be sold, clearly become state-owned and will serve as the foundation for one or another state-owned company.

The last group from abroad are foreign investments but whose management quickly became independent, becoming a new entity. In this way they avoided nationalization.

Akurat, the Polish branch of P&W in Rzeszow produces three such engines, of which only one is aircraft, the rest are helicopters. These engines power our Bryza.

It depends on the pace imposed; in theory, a new engine, for example for a tank, requires more than 10-15 years to develop. But knowing life, when there is a need, and a very urgent one at that, it will be possible to shorten it, and significantly. Given that Poland needs modern engines for now, it will probably be much faster. (Although let's not kid ourselves, their "modernity" and relevant parameters may not be as good as normal ones.)

I heard that they reportedly scrapped the entire Orlik production line. Though I rather had a vision, of such a modern WWII-style aircraft designed from scratch and being the sum total of the best aircraft of the era.

It gave me an idea, for the next chapter. Nevertheless, it is not a stupid idea but which is simply necessary but why I will explain in this chapter. So feel delighted, you will be immortalized as a sleaze. 😛

Although I will think about how to present the video on "YT "* in written form.

*Do you know any Polish site in this style? Or should I just gloss over the fact that one was created because such a need arose? I don't know, for example, redesigning the TVPVOD site so that it would be possible to upload videos to it.

Rather, yes, we can do it ourselves, although it is simpler to just buy it from another. And yes, we will be starting from scratch.


Eh, the idea of ATP is.... stupid. Any destroyer would sink something like that.
I have another idea myself, well a couple to be exact, buying a certain Chilean battleship and ordering four more from the French, modeled on the Dunkirk class. Of course, they will be a nice compilation of modernity with the old.
Because I can see that such a cruiser, with a little help from the Swedes and perhaps the Germans, we will manage to do ourselves. And the aircraft carriers can wait for the jets.

1.So,USA embassy as polish bitch?
2.Lidl would be better sell to smaller owners.The same goes for other shops.We do not need oigarchs,but medium class.
3.If modern engine is copy of old engine,then it could be made in months.
4.New fighter - just build somebody from Museum,either in Warsaw or Cracow.Few months should be enough.
5.Maybe?
6.Dunkirk class was more battlecruiser then battleship.Why not buy Jean Bart instead? and only 2 of them.It would be enough.
380mm schells could be modified and become guided missiles with better range.Not all,of course !

And,cyvilian ships with missiles could still be used till we do not get anything better.
River monitors - we coud built new ones with tank turrets,maybe from old T.72?

About carriers - why not build drone carriers? smaller,cheaper,and do the same job as any WW2 carrier,or better.

For foreign aircraft to import here's an alternative to the Spitfire which would be good: the Hawker Hurricane - same Merlin engine as the Spit but much easier to build and maintain while also being far more rugged. Hurricane pilots actually shot down more German aircraft during the Battle of Britain than Spitfire pilots did.

Historically, the Brits did export and grant foreign production licences for Hurricanes ... which they didn't do with the Spitfire AFAIK.

Something American powered by powered by the Pratt & Whitney R-1830 Twin Wasp or Wright R-1820 Cyclone for the engine if nothing else. There are a lot to choose from and not all of them are military aircraft. The DC-3, for example, was an airliner. I would be surprized if ISOT'd Poland doesn't have an old Soviet Shetsov M-25 sitting in a museum somewhere. That's a licence-built R-1820-F3. The M-25 was the starting point for the Shetsov ASh-62 and Shetsov ASh-82.

All possible,we could not build new jets after all.But,considering how many planes we had in various Museums,i bet that we could get P.51 or something like that.

 

[bintananth]

All possible,we could not build new jets after all.But,considering how many planes we had in various Museums,i bet that we could get P.51 or something like that.

I just did some digging to confirm if anyone still made big piston aircraft engines like the ones used during WWII thinking no one did.

WSK "PZL Kalisz" was still producing ASh-62IR engines as of 2017.

They used to make the Klimov KV-1 jet engine too. If they still have the blueprints for that on file Poland is just one production line away from having engines for MiG-15 copies. Zielona Góra Airport has one on display.

 

[Batrix2070]

For foreign aircraft to import here's an alternative to the Spitfire which would be good: the Hawker Hurricane - same Merlin engine as the Spit but much easier to build and maintain while also being far more rugged. Hurricane pilots actually shot down more German aircraft during the Battle of Britain than Spitfire pilots did.

Historically, the Brits did export and grant foreign production licences for Hurricanes ... which they didn't do with the Spitfire AFAIK.

Ironically, the point is that we don't need to buy it. For there is a Spitfire in Poland, located in the Museum of Polish Aviation in Krakow.

Muzeum Lotnictwa Polskiego w Krakowie

Oficjalna strona Muzeum Lotnictwa Polskiego w Krakowie

muzeumlotnictwa.pl

What is written is just dialogue between characters who are not omniscient. In fact, he is just going to end up with Hurricane.

[In Boromir voice]
Poland has no battleship. Poland needs no battleships.
All Poland needs for the Baltic is helicopters and submarines

And who said it was for the Baltic? For our sea, an unsinkable aircraft carrier and a squadron of Su-22s is enough.

And,war economy could be needed - in that case,PIS must provoke war and win it.

Or find a war on which to make a lot of money easily, *cough* Iberia and the Far East *cough*.

1.So,USA embassy as polish bitch?

More like the 5th Corps as the nucleus of the Foreign Legion.

2.Lidl would be better sell to smaller owners.The same goes for other shops.We do not need oigarchs,but medium class.

This is PiS what do you expect?

6.Dunkirk class was more battlecruiser then battleship.Why not buy Jean Bart instead? and only 2 of them.It would be enough.

Jean Bart is an extreme stubbornness, the French had problems to bring both ships to order, it is better to buy a class less unreliable. And even more versatile.

(Well, and I chose the Dunkirk for the reason that the original 1936-1942 fleet expansion plan called for the purchase of a liner with parameters oddly similar to those of the Dunkirk. Unfortunately, the cost, made us go for the option of underwater "battleships" i.e. Orzeł-class ships.

About carriers - why not build drone carriers? smaller,cheaper,and do the same job as any WW2 carrier,or better.

Because they can be safely packed onto a regular ship? Acctually we don't need so many towers by which there will be room for additional equipment, for example, a helipad/drone runway. They will serve the same role as the Hydroplanes did at the time.

3.If modern engine is copy of old engine,then it could be made in months.

All possible,we could not build new jets after all.But,considering how many planes we had in various Museums,i bet that we could get P.51 or something like that.

I just did some digging to confirm if anyone still made big piston aircraft engines like the ones used during WWII thinking no one did.

WSK "PZL Kalisz" was still producing ASh-62IR engines as of 2017.

They used to make the Klimov KV-1 jet engine too. If they still have the blueprints for that on file Poland is just one production line away from having engines for MiG-15 copies. Zielona Góra Airport has one on display.

Muzeum Lotnictwa Polskiego w Krakowie

Oficjalna strona Muzeum Lotnictwa Polskiego w Krakowie

muzeumlotnictwa.pl

I just remembered my brother's story of what was in that museum. Namely a whole exhibition of old engines!

I had completely forgotten about this, and certainly in the factory's files must be plans for any engines, including jet engines for our Lims, that is, Polish license copies of the MiG-15. It is only necessary to build the production line from scratch, although one could be tempted to make some modifications and should even appear in the creation of the Frankenstein monster that will be the new jet.
(That is, an F-16 fuselage, an engine from the MiG-15, and so on).
And it just so happens that the KV-1 was produced in Poland under the name Lis-2 and its modernization as Lis-5. Only that in another WSK factory, WSK-Rzeszow. Now P&W Rzeszow.

 

[ATP]

I just did some digging to confirm if anyone still made big piston aircraft engines like the ones used during WWII thinking no one did.

WSK "PZL Kalisz" was still producing ASh-62IR engines as of 2017.

They used to make the Klimov KV-1 jet engine too. If they still have the blueprints for that on file Poland is just one production line away from having engines for MiG-15 copies. Zielona Góra Airport has one on display.

Good enaugh till Poland would produce something better.

Ironically, the point is that we don't need to buy it. For there is a Spitfire in Poland, located in the Museum of Polish Aviation in Krakow.

Muzeum Lotnictwa Polskiego w Krakowie

Oficjalna strona Muzeum Lotnictwa Polskiego w Krakowie

muzeumlotnictwa.pl

What is written is just dialogue between characters who are not omniscient. In fact, he is just going to end up with Hurricane.

And who said it was for the Baltic? For our sea, an unsinkable aircraft carrier and a squadron of Su-22s is enough.

Or find a war on which to make a lot of money easily, *cough* Iberia and the Far East *cough*.

More like the 5th Corps as the nucleus of the Foreign Legion.

This is PiS what do you expect?

Jean Bart is an extreme stubbornness, the French had problems to bring both ships to order, it is better to buy a class less unreliable. And even more versatile.

(Well, and I chose the Dunkirk for the reason that the original 1936-1942 fleet expansion plan called for the purchase of a liner with parameters oddly similar to those of the Dunkirk. Unfortunately, the cost, made us go for the option of underwater "battleships" i.e. Orzeł-class ships.

Because they can be safely packed onto a regular ship? Acctually we don't need so many towers by which there will be room for additional equipment, for example, a helipad/drone runway. They will serve the same role as the Hydroplanes did at the time.

Muzeum Lotnictwa Polskiego w Krakowie

Oficjalna strona Muzeum Lotnictwa Polskiego w Krakowie

muzeumlotnictwa.pl

I just remembered my brother's story of what was in that museum. Namely a whole exhibition of old engines!

I had completely forgotten about this, and certainly in the factory's files must be plans for any engines, including jet engines for our Lims, that is, Polish license copies of the MiG-15. It is only necessary to build the production line from scratch, although one could be tempted to make some modifications and should even appear in the creation of the Frankenstein monster that will be the new jet.
(That is, an F-16 fuselage, an engine from the MiG-15, and so on).
And it just so happens that the KV-1 was produced in Poland under the name Lis-2 and its modernization as Lis-5. Only that in another WSK factory, WSK-Rzeszow. Now P&W Rzeszow.

1.Enough before they made Mig 15,or even Mig 21.

2.War in Spain - we should support Franco,but for what? entire gold stolen sralin.And China - if we supply Japan,they do not have gold,too.
3.Foreign Legion - i like it,but how made them loyal to Poland?
4.Maybe Dunkirk with 4-380mm guns ?
5.You have a point,drones for every ship seems legit.

6.One of soviet engines there was used in Mig 21./Tumański R.11/ ,you could made lesser F.16 or korean F.50 with that.

 

[Batrix2070]

War in Spain - we should support Franco,but for what?

What do you mean why? For resources, more precisely the oil reserves in Spain's Western Sahara. It turns out that there are deposits of oil and natural gas there, which is what we need on an urgent basis. And also for the market of a country ruined by civil war, Spain will need money to rebuild and, as it happens, Poland has it, every zloty we put into Spain will be recovered several times over like the Americans after World War II.

,they do not have gold,too.

They may not have gold, but they may have both the resources and we have the right technology to mine them. Well, and the same as Spain, China is a ruined country and Japan is still before its boom. The right carrot given to our "friends" will pay off very quickly.

 

[Buba]

Recreating production lines means making machines to make machines to make machines.
As well as making machines to produce specific grades of steel or other metals or alloys ...
It isn't "hop siup i do przodu"

What do you mean by KV-1 which became Lis-2?

As to gold - Poland produces 3 tons a year as sideline. Close to irrelevant.
But over a thousand tons of silver ...

Supporting Franco means keeping down the disgusting communists!