Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)

[Marduk]

The Russian tactic is quantity over quality. That said they only have so much quantity.

They may end up with a bit less quantity merely from attempting to use this junk.

 

[Aldarion]

This is absolutely, incontestably, factually false and your willingness to make up absolutely inconcievable "water isn't wet" level anti-physics claims reflects very poorly on your character. While not pyrophoric, tungsten penetrators absolutely still break up into high temperature fragments at hypervelocity impacts. There is literally no substance on earth that could remain "a big lump of metal" during a hypervelocity impact, and this is in fact the key definining feature of hypervelocity impact physics, regardless of whether you're talking about tungsten or DU or any other metal.

"The impact of a kinetic energy penetrator on a steel target in an enclosure produces high temperature fragments that in turn heat the surrounding air, causing the air pressure to rise. Additionally, pyrophoric penetrators like those made of depleted uranium burn rapidly, causing a further increase in air pressure. This report documents and analyzes the pressures measured during tests in which laboratory tungsten and depleted uranium kinetic energy penetrators impacted steel targets inside of an enclosed test range, and compares them with pressures measured during tests using pentolite in the same enclosure."

Source: Blast Pressures Induced by the Impact of Kinetic Energy Penetrators on Steel Targets in an Enclosed Range.

Your inability to comprehend a post is utterly inconceivable.

Absolutely nothing in my post suggests that tungsten penetrator remains in one piece. The "it is just a big lump of metal" comment was about the fact that tungsten doesn't ignite. I.E. it is not pyrophoric, it does not have any characteristics beyond physical impact. Whether it fragments or not is immaterial.

 

[lloyd007]

Err, unless I'm mistaken, the preferred SAFE way of stacking artillery or tank shells is nose up, tail down on pallets...not casually stacking them like lumber. I wouldn't want to be within several miles of that. Also, look at the condition of the casings, that doesn't look like it's been properly stored at all.

If U.S. Army or Marines found that shit, they'd probably have EOD wire it all up to explode, no one else would even touch that.

If you look at the videos of stockpiles Ukraine captured during the Izium offensive... these shells actually look well ordered and organized comparatively.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

Your inability to comprehend a post is utterly inconceivable.

Absolutely nothing in my post suggests that tungsten penetrator remains in one piece. The "it is just a big lump of metal" comment was about the fact that tungsten doesn't ignite. I.E. it is not pyrophoric, it does not have any characteristics beyond physical impact. Whether it fragments or not is immaterial.

You explicitly claimed that a tungsten penetrator is "a big lump of metal" whereas a DU impactor "essentially pulverizes itself when doing its work, and therefore presents a major environmental hazard". Those are your directly quoted words.

The reality is that all hypervelocity impactors "pulverize themselves" in order to produce a high energy, high temperature fragmenting impact, as definitively confirmed by the professional expert source I provided. They do this whether or not they happen to be pyrophoric, and there is no meaningful difference in "environmental hazard" between a tungsten penetrator and a DU penetrator, since it is the high-energy, high-temperature impact event that produces potentially dangerous heavy metal particulate remains. Indeed, the pyrophoric nature of DU makes it *less* of an environmental hazard, since a lot of the DU *burns up* instead.

 

[Aldarion]

You explicitly claimed that a tungsten penetrator is "a big lump of metal" whereas a DU impactor "essentially pulverizes itself when doing its work, and therefore presents a major environmental hazard". Those are your directly quoted words.

Notice that I said "pulverization". I was also talking about dust created by burning.

As far as I am aware, tungsten penetrator fragments and also does not burn.

The reality is that all hypervelocity impactors "pulverize themselves" in order to produce a high energy, high temperature fragmenting impact, as definitively confirmed by the professional expert source I provided. They do this whether or not they happen to be pyrophoric, and there is no meaningful difference in "environmental hazard" between a tungsten penetrator and a DU penetrator, since it is the high-energy, high-temperature impact event that produces potentially dangerous heavy metal particulate remains. Indeed, the pyrophoric nature of DU makes it *less* of an environmental hazard, since a lot of the DU *burns up* instead.

From what I remember, burning actually makes it worse because it creates essentially a radioactive ceramic dust. And that thing is much harder for body to remove than "raw" depleted uranium dust would be.

Depleted Uranium Quote

https://documents.unoda.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Serbia1.pdf

 

[ShadowArxxy]

Take a good look at the source of that document. The United Nations Office for Disarmament Affairs is the exact opposite of a credible source, and a perfect example of making shit up to advance an ideological agenda.

 

[strunkenwhite]

I know it's not actually incorrect usage, and I can just about get my head around it but the exclusionary triple negative at the end there really does my head in. There's gotta be a better way to phrase that?

Phrasing it in the way I did seemed more congruent with the previous discussion, but that last opinion can be rephrased as "if there is a non-nuclear world war by or before 2030, I am certain it will revolve around conflict between the US and China."

I am just confident in my opinion based off what I see on my job

So if you turn out to be wrong you'll re-evaluate how well you can predict world events based on the info your job gives you access to?

 

[Zachowon]

Phrasing it in the way I did seemed more congruent with the previous discussion, but that last opinion can be rephrased as "if there is a non-nuclear world war by or before 2030, I am certain it will revolve around conflict between the US and China."

So if you turn out to be wrong you'll re-evaluate how well you can predict world events based on the info your job gives you access to?

I mean, my job is to analyze and report on said things.
With a wealth of knowledge at that.
But it just means we avoided it.
Because things change om a daily basis.

 

[strunkenwhite]

I mean, my job is to analyze and report on said things.
With a wealth of knowledge at that.
But it just means we avoided it.
Because things change om a daily basis.

If you're CERTAIN, and you are basing this off of what you see at work, and you're wrong, I think you ought to reconsider how great a picture you're able to get of where the world is headed based off of what you see at work.

If you think it (WW3 by/before 2030) is more likely than not, but there's a very decent chance it won't happen, our opinions are a lot closer than what I thought you were telling me earlier.

 

[Zachowon]

If you're CERTAIN, and you are basing this off of what you see at work, and you're wrong, I think you ought to reconsider how great a picture you're able to get of where the world is headed based off of what you see at work.

If you think it (WW3 by/before 2030) is more likely than not, but there's a very decent chance it won't happen, our opinions are a lot closer than what I thought you were telling me earlier.

Alright.
There is a very high possibility.
I can not be certain you are correct about that.
I think more so then not it will happen, but we are close yes.
Miscommunication

 

[lloyd007]

Outside of a black swan event, I'd argue the only three triggers for WW3 lie with Putin/Moscow, Xinnie and Mohdi. The WEF fks are running the rest of the world that matters (i.e. no fks whatsoever have be given to S. America, Africa other than Egypt and SE Asia while almost no fks have to be given for the Middle East / C. Asia) atm and so they aren't gonna rock the boat no matter how many of them personally fall off and others get skimmed from the scum of the top. Hairsniffer isn't in control of his bowels, let alone the country and Cackling Kamala seems bound and determined to win the 'You Didn't Participate, But You Exist... I Guess...' Award.

Mohdi can trigger WW3 if the Himalayan conflict with China goes hot and/or India's feud with Pakistan kicks into high gear. But overall this is the least likely vector.

Putin/Moscow can trigger WW3 because who knows how many of the largest nuclear weapon stockpile in the world on paper is functional. Putin himself seems unlikely since he hasn't already, but if he kicks it through natural or 'natural' means, well, who knows what his successors would be like...

Xinnie the Pooh is by far the most dangerous, he's been whipping the mainland into Cultural Revolution Redux for a decade now to keep his power secure and stave off the consequences of everything from Original Mao to One Child to the Wuhan Flu to Real Estate... should one or more of those things become an undeniable existential threat, well... Taiwan is full of goddamn separatists who need to be taught a lesson and their stuff put to the betterment of all China... as Xinnie / Beijing will it...

 

[Bacle]

Outside of a black swan event, I'd argue the only three triggers for WW3 lie with Putin/Moscow, Xinnie and Mohdi. The WEF fks are running the rest of the world that matters (i.e. no fks whatsoever have be given to S. America, Africa other than Egypt and SE Asia while almost no fks have to be given for the Middle East / C. Asia) atm and so they aren't gonna rock the boat no matter how many of them personally fall off and others get skimmed from the scum of the top. Hairsniffer isn't in control of his bowels, let alone the country and Cackling Kamala seems bound and determined to win the 'You Didn't Participate, But You Exist... I Guess...' Award.

Mohdi can trigger WW3 if the Himalayan conflict with China goes hot and/or India's feud with Pakistan kicks into high gear. But overall this is the least likely vector.

Putin/Moscow can trigger WW3 because who knows how many of the largest nuclear weapon stockpile in the world on paper is functional. Putin himself seems unlikely since he hasn't already, but if he kicks it through natural or 'natural' means, well, who knows what his successors would be like...

Xinnie the Pooh is by far the most dangerous, he's been whipping the mainland into Cultural Revolution Redux for a decade now to keep his power secure and stave off the consequences of everything from Original Mao to One Child to the Wuhan Flu to Real Estate... should one or more of those things become an undeniable existential threat, well... Taiwan is full of goddamn separatists who need to be taught a lesson and their stuff put to the betterment of all China... as Xinnie / Beijing will it...

You forget the Nork's exist, and well Kim's been doing a lot of missile shit recently.

Of course flattening the NK weapons stockpiles, TEL bunkers, subs, and nuke/arms production facilities is a long week, maybe two, of work for the US and our allies air and sea forces, if it comes to that, so wouldn't be a 'long' war, even if it may be bloody.

 

[lloyd007]

You forget the Nork's exist, and well Kim's been doing a lot of missile shit recently.

Of course flattening the NK weapons stockpiles, TEL bunkers, subs, and nuke/arms production facilities is a long week, maybe two, of work for the US and our allies air and sea forces, if it comes to that, so wouldn't be a 'long' war, even if it may be bloody.

Best Korea would be nasty AF, but the odds of China jumping into a 'local' throwdown is slim to none and slim just left town... and if it was a wider conflict China would be the senior partner in the venture.

 

[Zachowon]

Thr US will be involved in all of those.

 

[TheRejectionist]

 

[Zachowon]

I mean, war is how the US become the dominant power in the world. Supplying one as well.

 

[TheRejectionist]

I mean, war is how the US become the dominant power in the world. Supplying one as well.

Yeah and causing misery almost everywhere you touch as a consequence.

 

[Megadeath]

Yeah and causing misery almost everywhere you touch as a consequence.

Yeah, definitely the US bringing misery to Ukraine. Those dastardly bastards giving Ukraine weapons, forcing russia to take far longer looting, kidnapping, raping, and murdering them. You're a fuckwit. I wish on you all the misery you'd happily condemn the Ukrainian people to.

 

[TheRejectionist]

Yeah, definitely the US bringing misery to Ukraine. Those dastardly bastards giving Ukraine weapons, forcing russia to take far longer looting, kidnapping, raping, and murdering them. You're a fuckwit. I wish on you all the misery you'd happily condemn the Ukrainian people to.

Whatever makes you sleep at night @Megadeath the only laughable misery I see is you.

 

[Zachowon]

Yeah and causing misery almost everywhere you touch as a consequence.

I mean, is Japan in misery? Is Germany in misery because of us?
Is Korea?
Is UK?
Is Italy?