Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)

[Marduk]

Its not the radiation, ITS THE HEAVY METAL POISONING. Care to look up what that does? Dont. It will haunt you. And unlike a flooded river the effects will last centuries. But thats okay as long as we get to kill some Russians huh? The Rainbow Empire accepts no limits on its escalation.

MUH ESCALATION!!!
So far fucking muscovite imperialism simping thinly hidden under all sorts of silly excuses is what's haunting me.

Issue with depleted uranium is a) heavy metal toxicity and b) it is pyrophoric. Combine these two, and long-term environmental and health hazards can be significant.

But then I don't think any Western tanks need DU to handle Russian tanks. Leopard 2 with tungsten penetrators would be more than capable of doing so.

Yes, it is a heavy metal. So is lead. And what do you think tungsten is?

DU is pyrophoric, but only in dust form, which it gets into when shot at something hard, like tank armor, and it ignites right then, so yeah...

By now everyone sane has noticed that Ukraine is going to have a huge environmental mess on hand anyway with all the leftovers of explosives, burned down military and civilian stuff washed down by rains, soots mixed with weird chemicals and so on, nevermind the omnipresent mines, so a tiny bit more heavy metal contamination won't make a meaningful difference.

 

[Zachowon]

I mean, yall do know DU rounds are used for training by the US Army right?
And we fire it into mountains and stuff, where rivers tk cross over...

Yet entire counties arnt infected with heavy metal positoning

 

[Buba]

It's the Rainbow Empire fuckturds who get excited over heavy metals. E.g. the greenies are out to ban lead bullets for hunters as these pollute the environmrnt soooo much.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

Its not the radiation, ITS THE HEAVY METAL POISONING. Care to look up what that does? Dont. It will haunt you. And unlike a flooded river the effects will last centuries. But thats okay as long as we get to kill some Russians huh? The Rainbow Empire accepts no limits on its escalation.

Hint: tungsten is also a heavy metal. All modern AP ammo, Western and Eastern Bloc alike, has issues with heavy metal toxicity — except they’re minor and inconsequential issues anyway.

 

[Jormungandr]

If you ever need a laugh, just read @AnimalNoodles' posts.

When he isn't being a vatnik, he's acting like a wannabe Lefty Glowie ("THE RAINBOW EMPIRE IS COMING FOR UZ ALL!!!1"), or a panicking (as in the headless chicken type of panicking) environmentalist.

Pick a schtick and stick to it, dude.

Reminder: "Kherson will fall any day now."

 

[AnimalNoodles]

If you ever need a laugh, just read @AnimalNoodles' posts.

When he isn't being a vatnik, he's acting like a wannabe Lefty Glowie ("THE RAINBOW EMPIRE IS COMING FOR UZ ALL!!!1"), or a panicking (as in the headless chicken type of panicking) environmentalist.

Pick a schtick and stick to it, dude.

Reminder: "Kherson will fall any day now."

Oh man, ive been accused of many things, but being a lefty isnt one of them

 

[Marduk]

Oh man, ive been accused of many things, but being a lefty isnt one of them

Well you can add that to the list, courtesy of your decision to copy arguments from watermelons. Jeez, at least copy your homework from smart people.

 

[LordsFire]

Irrational, stupid and vindictive? How about supplying Ukraine with fucking depleted uranium? In a conflict where tank on tank combat is rare.

It almost as if the Rainbow Empire recognises Ukraine will never regain its lost territories so they will simply poison them with heavy metals.

Boy, you are really grasping at straws at this point, aren't you?

I could come up with better talking points that are pro-Russia anti-Ukraine than you are, and I believe Russia is 100% in the wrong...

 

[Jormungandr]

Oh man, ive been accused of many things, but being a lefty isnt one of them

Congratulations on reaching a new low.

 

[Aldarion]

Yes, it is a heavy metal. So is lead. And what do you think tungsten is?

DU is pyrophoric, but only in dust form, which it gets into when shot at something hard, like tank armor, and it ignites right then, so yeah...

By now everyone sane has noticed that Ukraine is going to have a huge environmental mess on hand anyway with all the leftovers of explosives, burned down military and civilian stuff washed down by rains, soots mixed with weird chemicals and so on, nevermind the omnipresent mines, so a tiny bit more heavy metal contamination won't make a meaningful difference.

Read again what I wrote. Issue is not that it is heavy metal penetrator. Issue is that it is penetrator made with heavy metal which essentially pulverizes itself when doing its work, and therefore presents a major environmental hazard.

When tungsten penetrator strikes a tank, it mostly remains in solid form. It is just a big lump of metal.

DU penetrators are considered superior because they a) self-sharpen during penetration and b) self-ignite during penetration. And both of these processes lead to DU dust being spread basically everywhere.

Sure, use them if you really need to. But considering nature of combat in Ukraine, and quality of tanks Russians are fielding, argument could be made that steel penetrators would be perfectly adequate.

 

[Marduk]

Read again what I wrote. Issue is not that it is heavy metal penetrator. Issue is that it is penetrator made with heavy metal which essentially pulverizes itself when doing its work, and therefore presents a major environmental hazard.

When tungsten penetrator strikes a tank, it mostly remains in solid form. It is just a big lump of metal.

DU penetrators are considered superior because they a) self-sharpen during penetration and b) self-ignite during penetration. And both of these processes lead to DU dust being spread basically everywhere.

Sure, use them if you really need to. But considering nature of combat in Ukraine, and quality of tanks Russians are fielding, argument could be made that steel penetrators would be perfectly adequate.

Pretty sure that with the sheer forces involved, plus likely fires and explosions, tungsten penetrators also leave some dust.
Meanwhile, in terms of amount, the few kg of a DU penetrator, most not turning into fine powder, are not going to contaminate much with meaningful concentrations, while going into destroyed tanks to take a breath of air is never a good idea anyway.

Do you know of *any* steel penetrator tank rounds that can handle ~600mm RHA at least?

 

[Zachowon]

Read again what I wrote. Issue is not that it is heavy metal penetrator. Issue is that it is penetrator made with heavy metal which essentially pulverizes itself when doing its work, and therefore presents a major environmental hazard.

When tungsten penetrator strikes a tank, it mostly remains in solid form. It is just a big lump of metal.

DU penetrators are considered superior because they a) self-sharpen during penetration and b) self-ignite during penetration. And both of these processes lead to DU dust being spread basically everywhere.

Sure, use them if you really need to. But considering nature of combat in Ukraine, and quality of tanks Russians are fielding, argument could be made that steel penetrators would be perfectly adequate.

Then tell the Russians mot to use them either.

 

[Aldarion]

Pretty sure that with the sheer forces involved, plus likely fires and explosions, tungsten penetrators also leave some dust.
Meanwhile, in terms of amount, the few kg of a DU penetrator, most not turning into fine powder, are not going to contaminate much with meaningful concentrations, while going into destroyed tanks to take a breath of air is never a good idea anyway.

Do you know of *any* steel penetrator tank rounds that can handle ~600mm RHA at least?

Issue is, soldiers often have to come close to said tanks:

Depleted uranium: Courts accept cancer risk denied by army

Courts across Europe have ruled that depleted uranium can cause cancer among troops. Yet the British army insists it is safe to supply Ukraine with the toxic tank shells.

declassifieduk.org

Incidence of haematological malignancies in Kosovo—A post "uranium war" concern

During the Kosovo War (1998–99) approximately 31,000 rounds with Depleted Uranium (DU) were fired on 85 targets in Kosovo. The number of haematological malignancies (HM) increased after the war and the concern was the use of DU during the war. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Although, now I found out that T-80 also uses DU ammunition, so yeah. If Russians are already using it, some more usage by Challies won't be an issue. If anything, Russia might well deploy as much DU as possible to screw with the environment over time.

 

[Megadeath]

Issue is, soldiers often have to come close to said tanks:

Imagine that, soldiers facing risk and health hazards in a war. It's unacceptable I tell you!

Although, now I found out that T-80 also uses DU ammunition, so yeah. If Russians are already using it, some more usage by Challies won't be an issue. If anything, Russia might well deploy as much DU as possible to screw with the environment over time.

How many of these rounds do you think are being fired? On a list of the things causing long term damage to Ukraine, where do you think this particular issue ranks? My answer's would be not many and not high. That aside, if Russia wanted to screw with the environment over time they could always take more direct action. They could just cut out the middle man and start sprinkling uranium everywhere if that weren't insane. Or maybe they could litter the countryside with UXO and a staggering number of mines. Perhaps another option could be to collapse a major dam. Those would probably work pretty well. 🙄

 

[Marduk]

Issue is, soldiers often have to come close to said tanks:

Depleted uranium: Courts accept cancer risk denied by army

Courts across Europe have ruled that depleted uranium can cause cancer among troops. Yet the British army insists it is safe to supply Ukraine with the toxic tank shells.

declassifieduk.org

Incidence of haematological malignancies in Kosovo—A post "uranium war" concern

During the Kosovo War (1998–99) approximately 31,000 rounds with Depleted Uranium (DU) were fired on 85 targets in Kosovo. The number of haematological malignancies (HM) increased after the war and the concern was the use of DU during the war. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Although, now I found out that T-80 also uses DU ammunition, so yeah. If Russians are already using it, some more usage by Challies won't be an issue. If anything, Russia might well deploy as much DU as possible to screw with the environment over time.

Soldiers are expected to have and wear protection when doing so. If they don't that's a mistake on their part.

 

[Zachowon]

Issue is, soldiers often have to come close to said tanks:

Depleted uranium: Courts accept cancer risk denied by army

Courts across Europe have ruled that depleted uranium can cause cancer among troops. Yet the British army insists it is safe to supply Ukraine with the toxic tank shells.

declassifieduk.org

Incidence of haematological malignancies in Kosovo—A post "uranium war" concern

During the Kosovo War (1998–99) approximately 31,000 rounds with Depleted Uranium (DU) were fired on 85 targets in Kosovo. The number of haematological malignancies (HM) increased after the war and the concern was the use of DU during the war. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Although, now I found out that T-80 also uses DU ammunition, so yeah. If Russians are already using it, some more usage by Challies won't be an issue. If anything, Russia might well deploy as much DU as possible to screw with the environment over time.

Soldiers are expected to have and wear protection when doing so. If they don't that's a mistake on their part.

They don't wear lead anything when handling them.
And remember US tanks have DU armor

 

[Marduk]

They don't wear lead anything when handling them.
And remember US tanks have DU armor

Because when intact the rounds are not dust, obviously. When DU gets hit or is used to hit something though, they should wear protection when handling the damaged/destroyed vehicle. Not anti radiation protection, no radiation there, but dust masks or gas masks if not available. Though that should be common sense in general, all sorts of dusts possible in a wrecked and especially burned vehicle, and none of them are good for you.

 

[Aldarion]

Imagine that, soldiers facing risk and health hazards in a war. It's unacceptable I tell you!

Generally speaking, hazard is supposed to come from the enemy.

 

[Zachowon]

Generally speaking, hazard is supposed to come from the enemy.

Mire US Soldiers died in training then in the middle east

 

[strunkenwhite]

Well, at least among all the war crimes, Russia did some service to Ukraine there.

Indeed. Soldiers also eat food, and thus the McDonalds was dual purpose and therefore a valid military target.